10 man Heroic Dark Shamans help

[Jordaen]

Hey, my guild spent all week on heroic shamans this week and I'm wondering if anyone can look through our logs and suggest some things. Our strat:

Split them into two, Haroom up the little hill with the lady down below. The upper group is myself (resto druid), resto shaman, prot pally, prot warrior and a rogue. The lower group is BM monk, holy paladin, shadow priest, balance druid and a hunter. We split 5/5 so the rogue can get more uptime on damage and the toxic mist doesn't really do much to him due to his ability to negate damage. Our issue is around 40% when falling ash coincides with some toxics and the tombs. Other than this, any suggestions for strat/healing/anything else?

logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kld528v2htvo3pyb/

[theburned]

iron tombs doesnt do any damage, and while the shaman doesnt get to heal while moving the resto druid should have no issues, as a resto druid can easily solo heal up there. not sure what personals the shaman has, but just rotating ironbark, barkskin and fortyfying brew, should keep you alive, especially with a lifebloom and a rejuv so focus on healing the 2 others.

Solo healed this twice, going with 2 tanks a warlock and me on haromm, so easy, wlock takes no damage, with passive 28% damage reduction and he does about 3m healing, so he takes a total of 20m damage, and I take 25 ish, and the tanks are kept up by rejuvenations mostly, keep up lifebloom on yourself though, as you are the one taking most and constant damage, and rolling rejuvs constantly is a big deal.

[Jordaen]

I know that tombs don't deal damage (unless you derp and stand on one) but the movement messed up the shaman and the pally when we had things moved around. The shaman, if he were to go ele, would have 40% reduc on a 1.5 (astral shift), shammy rage which is 30% I think on a 1 min. The prot pally also has hand of purity.

The only issue is that if we take the rogue up top with me and the two tanks, I won't have any spell haste so I'd either have to bite the bullet about wasting a lot of haste or reforge specifically for that fight, but the rogue takes significantly less damage than the shaman. Also, if we have a melee, the toxic mist will always choose us two, right, and not go to the tanks?

[Hygeia]

Tanks wont get toxic mist if you are 2 healers up there, but they will get it if you are only 1 healer, but if its 2 tanks, 1 healer and the rogue, you and the rogue will get toxic mist, but we had it sometimes that when we are only 2 tanks and 1 healer that our 5th melee dps gets tombs...dont know if that actually was intended. We did 2 pala tanks, frost dk and me as resto and shaman healer with Haromm.

We just used to to pally's to cast HoP every 30sec on cd on the 2 ppl that get toxic mist when its about 6sec left. If you are referring to haste you talking about the 31% haste rating...If you are high on mastery spec you should not have a problem - both specs are viable. What talents are you using for this fight?

NV is good for this fight, I also make use of Cenarion Ward for an extra cd and then either use force of nature or sotf.

[boomkinhero]

If it's the burst damage that is getting you, focus on using genesis more. pre-juv all 5 and genesis right after. NV would further help this endeavor.

You can also look towards working in bloom for the 2 tanks and melee (3/5 or 4 if you can get yourself to jump in quick enough). I see your 8:22 wipe you never used bloom.. it's such a beautiful healing ability.. especially when you have people stacked.

[theburned]

I know that tombs don't deal damage (unless you derp and stand on one) but the movement messed up the shaman and the pally when we had things moved around. The shaman, if he were to go ele, would have 40% reduc on a 1.5 (astral shift), shammy rage which is 30% I think on a 1 min. The prot pally also has hand of purity.

The only issue is that if we take the rogue up top with me and the two tanks, I won't have any spell haste so I'd either have to bite the bullet about wasting a lot of haste or reforge specifically for that fight, but the rogue takes significantly less damage than the shaman. Also, if we have a melee, the toxic mist will always choose us two, right, and not go to the tanks?

Doubt it is necessary to have the 37.5% breakpoint its below 200k hps requirement with 4 targets. If you have 2p it is really great. Trying out ToL or FoN as SotF isnt that strong when used with rejuv. Obviously NV as lvl 90 talent.
We 3 healed it first time, we lacked healers once and had issues with an OS healer so I asked if we could just go with a wlock instead of an OS healer, its now our standard tactic, faster and always a one shot

[Thalur]

2 tanks, 2 healers and a melee is the perfect setup for the upper group. As a healer, you only need to move for the iron tombs, and you can put them down in a row / square so they don't block the way. Don't run out of the green area, you only get the initial damage anyway.

Healing is also very predictable: both healers or melee + healer get the dot which only deals a lot damage during the end (also aligns perfectly with resto shaman's Healing Stream Totem). The guy without the dot ALWAYS gets the green beam (so just stand spread out all the time). Tank damage is moderate if they taunt correctly. IMO druid and shaman are a great healing comp here. Since mana isn't a problem, you can go ahead and use Genesis freely, or spam Regrowth.

For the falling ashes, they are on strict timers so you can hot everyone and keep them at full, also use CDs. The two guys with the dot need a personal CD each, or one group CD. You have a prot warri with two great CDs, a prot pally with even better CDs, the druid with Barksin, Might of Ursok and Symbiosis as self CDs as well as Ironbark for others. Resto shaman also has good CDs (40% reduction, SLT) and rogue is CD king anyway.
Just use your CDs and this fight is a joke.

[theburned]

2 tanks, 2 healers and a melee is the perfect setup for the upper group. As a healer, you only need to move for the iron tombs, and you can put them down in a row / square so they don't block the way. Don't run out of the green area, you only get the initial damage anyway.

Healing is also very predictable: both healers or melee + healer get the dot which only deals a lot damage during the end (also aligns perfectly with resto shaman's Healing Stream Totem). The guy without the dot ALWAYS gets the green beam (so just stand spread out all the time). Tank damage is moderate if they taunt correctly. IMO druid and shaman are a great healing comp here. Since mana isn't a problem, you can go ahead and use Genesis freely, or spam Regrowth.

For the falling ashes, they are on strict timers so you can hot everyone and keep them at full, also use CDs. The two guys with the dot need a personal CD each, or one group CD. You have a prot warri with two great CDs, a prot pally with even better CDs, the druid with Barksin, Might of Ursok and Symbiosis as self CDs as well as Ironbark for others. Resto shaman also has good CDs (40% reduction, SLT) and rogue is CD king anyway.
Just use your CDs and this fight is a joke.

you cant use might of ursoc really.... that is just dumping shitloads of healing on the other healer and doesnt solve a thing.
symbiosis on monk is best as he gains a good cd, you gain a good damage reduction cd, there are a few cases where you should symbiosis other people in raiding, primarily deterrence (spols hc for bombs, malkorok hc, dash for hunter), ice block for certain bosses (not sure in siege), protectors can be nice with iceblock/deterrence if you take the mark last, but the monk cd just is godlike in 90% of the cases, 20% damage reduction + health with a 1/6 uptime (20 sec/2min cd), life grip on paragons. and shamans for certain fights that require movement tranqs and/or an extra silence. I know at least my monk tank is super happy for the survival instincts.
the monk tank might need the symbiosis on malkorok too if he is solo tanking the blood rage.
Also not sure why you would need a melee up there, just 2 tanks and a healer + a dps are doing just fine, only issues is if there is a foul stream at healers, but that can happen if there is an extra dps up there too, and it really depends on the timing.

[insanedruid]

you cant use might of ursoc really.... that is just dumping shitloads of healing on the other healer and doesnt solve a thing.
symbiosis on monk is best as he gains a good cd, you gain a good damage reduction cd, there are a few cases where you should symbiosis other people in raiding, primarily deterrence (spols hc for bombs, malkorok hc, dash for hunter), ice block for certain bosses (not sure in siege), protectors can be nice with iceblock/deterrence if you take the mark last, but the monk cd just is godlike in 90% of the cases, 20% damage reduction + health with a 1/6 uptime (20 sec/2min cd), life grip on paragons. and shamans for certain fights that require movement tranqs and/or an extra silence. I know at least my monk tank is super happy for the survival instincts.
the monk tank might need the symbiosis on malkorok too if he is solo tanking the blood rage.
Also not sure why you would need a melee up there, just 2 tanks and a healer + a dps are doing just fine, only issues is if there is a foul stream at healers, but that can happen if there is an extra dps up there too, and it really depends on the timing.

Might of ursoc or just bear form is very useful when you know you are gonna take a big hit.
You gain like 35% HP when going bear. It give you a better chance to survive if you don't have the time to heal yourself to full.
So no it does not dump loads of healing on the other healer if you use it correctly.

[theburned]

Might of ursoc or just bear form is very useful when you know you are gonna take a big hit.
You gain like 35% HP when going bear. It give you a better chance to survive if you don't have the time to heal yourself to full.
So no it does not dump loads of healing on the other healer if you use it correctly.

it's rarely it's worth it though, you will still need to heal up after, while you would've been much better off just popping ironbark/barkskin on yourself, and healed up everyone else, instead of using 3gcds (if you time it correctly.) just getting into bear form popping might of ursoc then going out of bearform after you take the hit. But I suppose it is okay if you are 2 healing haromm. It sure has it's uses, but it's rarely, stuff like Iron juggernaught mines, lei shen static shock (outdated so irrelevant), most other times you are better off healing, also good if you are going oom though.

[Deleted]

All that can kill you on shamans is the burst damage and getting pretty much one shot, so MoU/bear form and other cooldowns are very useful indeed. Healing it up afterwards isn't really difficult/stressful even if there's only one healer.

[Thalur]

you cant use might of ursoc really.... that is just dumping shitloads of healing on the other healer and doesnt solve a thing.

When you use Might of Ursok, you get +30% HP. Just use this before you get some damage, and your HP will only drop a bit. Then you can start healing again immediately, which will just bring you back to caster form without any additional cost in time, actions or mana. Basically, MoU will "heal" you because your health % jumps up when MoU ends because your max HP is reduced, but your current HP stays the same. Basically a free 30% self-heal if activated right before a hit and canceled afterwards.

Barkskin, Might of Ursok and Symbiosis (Monk is best, but several others are good too) are what makes a resto druid strong on Haromm and you should use them as much as possible for the falling ashes.

Edit: to clarify (since your explanations in your last post are seriously wrong):
During your normal healing rotation, you do not even need a GCD to activate MoU. It can be used in caster form and activates Bear Form, off the GCD. You could immediately cast any healing spell again, just stay long enough in bear form to soak the damage.

@OP if you like I can PM you a link to a video I made from this boss, showing the Haromm group from my PoV. (The video has not been edited yet so I won't post it on the forum.)

[Deleted]

Remember Toxic Mist gives stacking debuff for 30 sec, causing more nature damage received from all sources, not only poison itself. So target with toxic mist is absolutely not allowed to be hit by Foul Stream as it can oneshot at high debuff stacks.
Another thing can cause problems is that bosses start casting new abilities at predetermined boss health values. So with some "bad" raid dps values you can end with abilites synched too close each others which can make it just unhealable. Stop/slow dps for few seconds if that is problem. Falling Ash + Iron Prison synched to hit within couple seconds is unhealable pretty much.

Tell your lower group to hug and move between buildings and near edges all time when Storm spawns, helps them lot by placing storms away from middle.
If you cant get Earthbreaker group healing to work then move paladin there as Hand of Purity is op for Toxic Mist and will cover one of two Mists every time. You will lose bit absorbs in low group but they can probably manage if they play well. Shadow priest can shield/disperse iron prisons, hunter can deterrance every time etc.

Or force your shadow to go disc this fight.

[theburned]

When you use Might of Ursok, you get +30% HP. Just use this before you get some damage, and your HP will only drop a bit. Then you can start healing again immediately, which will just bring you back to caster form without any additional cost in time, actions or mana. Basically, MoU will "heal" you because your health % jumps up when MoU ends because your max HP is reduced, but your current HP stays the same. Basically a free 30% self-heal if activated right before a hit and canceled afterwards.

Barkskin, Might of Ursok and Symbiosis (Monk is best, but several others are good too) are what makes a resto druid strong on Haromm and you should use them as much as possible for the falling ashes.

Edit: to clarify (since your explanations in your last post are seriously wrong):
During your normal healing rotation, you do not even need a GCD to activate MoU. It can be used in caster form and activates Bear Form, off the GCD. You could immediately cast any healing spell again, just stay long enough in bear form to soak the damage.

Ok, thanks for the information on how to use might of ursoc effciently.
It is not a 30% self heal, might be a 30% damage reduction though, with the requirement of being in bear form while active.

Also what makes resto druids good for dark shaman is the healing style, high output hots, and a free constant aoe, with 2 short cooldown cd's, a medium cooldown cd and 2 longer cooldowns (tranq and might of ursoc), also the ability to heal on the move with no output or mana cost. Also the mana save from 2p, and utility from genesis. The entire kit from druids seems like it was made for this fight (haromm part obviously) or the fight being made for the druid healing kit. If you got the mana and/or output for it you can easily heal through it without using the cd's even.

[Milkyz]

Ok, thanks for the information on how to use might of ursoc effciently.
It is not a 30% self heal, might be a 30% damage reduction though, with the requirement of being in bear form while active.

Might of Ursoc is a 30% self heal even if you just pop it and shapeshift back to caster form.

[Cantor]

While this won't sort your particular strategy, I highly advise a 2/8 split, with the majority of the raid on Haromm. We keep everything together until the second Iron Tomb is cast, then leave a Brewmaster Monk and Resto Druid with Kardriss as they're more than capable of dealing with everything she throws out, and are both mobile-enough to kite the slimes around safely. The top group stacks all the ranged and healers tightly on top of each other at 90 degrees to Harromm (who is tanked by the gate) and move only when Iron Tomb is cast, then stack back up in front of the Tombs that just came out, thus forming lines of Tombs leading from the ranged group toward the boss. The tanks stack up 2-3 Ashen Walls on top of each other by moving back into them when they're casting (use a strong CD if stacking 3), which means you'll never run out of space.

[Deleted]

After many different strat changes with not much success at all, we went with 2 tanks 1 heal up with Haromm, and everyone else down with the other dude.

I was doing tanking business as a shitty geared off-spec guardian tree along with a pro prot pally. We had a pro resto druid healing us up there. The main problems we had up there were surviving high stack hits once the shammies hit 20% or so. In the end it just came down to CD juggling (for me as guardian). Not really sure what the larger group were up to exactly but I believe it was a strat where the single tank would be kiting the boss around in a big circle and healers/ranged stationary in the middle.

[adynn]

Using Might of Ursoc an consequently going into bear form will boost your HP from caster form by roughly 70%, that makes it an amazing tool to survive burst damage.

[Arielle]

We do a 5/5 split for Shamans. Remember you can hold DPS to time when they get the Ash totems to prevent them from overlapping with anything nasty.

[Jordaen]

The necro is strong in this thread but thanks for the tips anyway. I think the 2/8 split is making it way more difficult than needed, and 3/7 or 4/6, with the smaller group with Haromm, seemed to the be easiest strat and the ones that we use on our weekly clear. Thanks for the help though.