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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    You what. Juggernaut is pure faceroll. 3 heal and GG.
    You're in a world top 100 guild, stop pretending to know how it is for people stepping into heroics now. You're summary of every boss in the first 8 is "lol faceroll collect lewts gg" Its pure unhelpful bullshit.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    like 3 shot it

    just 3 tank it and make it way easier.
    Last edited by cyqu; 2013-11-12 at 04:34 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    You what. Juggernaut is pure faceroll. 3 heal and GG.
    Still harder than Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, Galakras and Nazgrim, no matter how easy it may be as a heroic encounter.

  4. #24
    I think nazgrim is a bit easier then shamans but doing it as 7th won't matter that much. The combination of falling ash+iron prison or toxic mist kinda hurts and both groups need proper movement. It's not that hard but harder then the first 6.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    Don't go for it imo. Would be really silly if you ask me. From a ranged dps perspective (but also accounting for # of wipes we had both on progress/farm) I'd go for Norushen > protectors > immerseus as first 3. Obviously it sucks that if you kill norushen hc quick you can't go back so just go in order they are in I'd say. With the gear you'll have I'd even put malorok hc easier than shamans hc; maybe even spoils as well. Dark shamans hc isn't hard on paper with 3 tanks but there's still quite a bit of oneshot things that can go wrong. Our 2nd pull we had them on 8% or something, and yet overall I don't have to check DBM to know that most of our wipes on first 8 are on dark shamans.
    Don't do spoils or malkorok before any of the first 8 please. Malkorok is on a whole new level of personal responsibility and spoils is still quite the dps check even with new gear. Optimising your dps and route through the room is how you beat it. You'll still have many more wipes than on the first 8.

    I'd put Sha=Shamans with 3 tanks with the rest being below and the difference not being great enough to matter (only norushen and galakras are a bit easier if you don't have much time). Some guilds seem to have much less problems on sha than others though.

    You're in a world top 100 guild, stop pretending to know how it is for people stepping into heroics now. You're summary of every boss in the first 8 is "lol faceroll collect lewts gg" Its pure unhelpful bullshit.
    Juggy really isn't very hard if you have the dps and 3 healers. With this gear it's no problem.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Juggy really isn't very hard if you have the dps and 3 healers. With this gear it's no problem.
    Here's a secret - people just starting heroics don't have "this gear". There's quite a difference when whole raid has 700k+ hitpoints are everyone does 100k more dps.

  7. #27
    Blademaster
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    faceroll :P

  8. #28
    Problem with this fight over the requirements of the other fights, is that it relies heavily on the 2nd healer (if you 2 heal) to be able to solo heal the top.

    It's possible to do 2 heal 3 tank, with a rogue up top to soak up the odd debuff, but it still requires the healer to be able to sustain heals on themselves + others during falling ash + Toxic mists, which sub 25% is still a very difficult task for most. Your other option is 2 healing the top + a 3rd healer down below (disc is amazing for the lower part) and just hoping the pure throughput from the 2 healers up above can survive through the last 25%.

    Granted, my guild's progression on this was during the first week, it still took us more attempts than any other boss, and came down to purely strategy based, and a little timing on making sure the Falling Ash wasn't happening the last ~5-10 seconds of the Toxic Mist debuff.

    I'd rank it difficulty wise about on par with Malkorok (at this point). Immerseus > Norushen > Protectors > Galakras > Sha of Pride > Juggernaut > Nazgrim > Shamans~> Malkorok=Spoils

    If you're weak in the healing department, Juggernaut, Dark Shamans and Malkorok become infinitely harder.

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    You what. Juggernaut is pure faceroll. 3 heal and GG.
    This assumes everyone in the raid is good at avoiding Ricochet. If not, even with 3 healers, Laser Burn + Ricochet on a clothie kills faster than healing can go out, and with the GTFO during Siege strategy, losing a DPS usually means hitting enrage. For most guilds just getting to, or in the process of getting to, Iron Juggernaut, expect to spend a lot of time wiping on him. There is no room for tunneling, and very, very many ways in which you can get globaled. Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, Galakras, and arguably Nazgrim are all significantly easier.

    As for Dark Shamans - it's really probably easier than Juggernaut for DPS and the Haromm group, assuming you 3-tank, but you want a great healer with absorbs and your best tank on Kardris, and even then it's going to be a painful learning process for them.

  10. #30
    Blademaster Fkleppe's Avatar
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    Most annoying boss since M'uru.
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  11. #31
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    I'm in a guild who did not have 3 tanks, so we had to 2 tank Dark Shamans HC. The thing is, the fight is unforgiving. You can lose players so fast if they are not paying attention + if you lack healers with shield (absorbs) abilties, it can be a pain depending on your team setup, the reason being the ability Iron Prison which is 100% max hp in dmg.

    Imo. your best choice is just doing them in order, I will say that since Norushen HC was nerfed, the fight has become a lot easier.

    @FlaviusAetius

    Nobody should get hit by Ricochet if they watch out for the line which the Ricochet travel. Furthermore if a clothie has been assigned to a Ricochet spot and keeps getting anihilated, you might want to swap the player with somebody else in the safe zone.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiz View Post
    I'm in a guild who did not have 3 tanks, so we had to 2 tank Dark Shamans HC. The thing is, the fight is unforgiving. You can lose players so fast if they are not paying attention + if you lack healers with shield (absorbs) abilties, it can be a pain depending on your team setup, the reason being the ability Iron Prison which is 100% max hp in dmg.

    Imo. your best choice is just doing them in order, I will say that since Norushen HC was nerfed, the fight has become a lot easier.

    @FlaviusAetius

    Nobody should get hit by Ricochet if they watch out for the line which the Ricochet travel. Furthermore if a clothie has been assigned to a Ricochet spot and keeps getting anihilated, you might want to swap the player with somebody else in the safe zone.
    I know nobody should get hit by Ricochet, but if you're in a guild that hasn't even made it to Iron Juggernaut Heroic yet, chances are you have not one, but several players that consistently will get hit, and you should temper your expectations accordingly. It's an unforgiving fight for people who aren't exceptionally skilled, period. And Dark Shamans is even worse, overall.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    - - - Updated - - -

    I'd suggest doing Immerseus and Norushen the first week, with some pulls on Protectors. Norushen is the easiest of the three, but skipping Immerseus is kind of silly if you have the time to finish the place off.

    Don't expect any of the heroics to be easy-mode. Immerseus WILL wipe you over and over again until players start handling the mechanics properly.
    This is a good answer. Go in order for the most part. Nur is def easiest, but no reason to skip the first one ore two if you ave time to allocate and clear.

    From a DPS perspective, with the 3 tank split... DShaman is one of the easiest fights of the first 8, however that's only from a DPS point of view and I can't comment on how much harder it is for healers. We got it down relatively quickly, and have easily repeated it weekly since.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Here's a secret - people just starting heroics don't have "this gear". There's quite a difference when whole raid has 700k+ hitpoints are everyone does 100k more dps.
    But they do. Players just starting hc's are not going to do juggernaut in the first week either way, as there are 4 bosses which are easier earlier in the instance. A friend on mine is in a guild that is starting on juggernaut this week. Their average ilvl is 560 and that's about the gear level you'd expect from a guild with that progression. They won't find the boss an issue, because he really isn't very demanding with that ilvl.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-11-13 at 10:45 PM.

  15. #35
    It's extremely easy. One shot it with minimal effort put forward.

  16. #36
    think we killed it in 20 pulls, definately took a raid night, its about people surviving the falling ash with raid cds

  17. #37
    Having killed 6 heroics and attempts on Dark shaman I will say without a doubt if you want a morale boosting kill do norushen first, by far the easiest of the heroic bosses. After that it would all depend on your comp, immers, fallen next then sha,galakras,jugger all about equal imo.

    We are going to skip shamans this week and go for nazgrim for now.
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  18. #38
    We got our first kills of Twin towers (I can't spell), Iron Jug, and Dark Shaman last lockout. We three tank, three healed Dark Shaman (one disc, with a healing raid lead, yes, ten man). We three healed Iron Jug with the "run the heck away for siege" strategy. (Yes, we do a lot better at making numbers than at staying out of bad).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzete View Post
    We got our first kills of Twin towers (I can't spell), Iron Jug, and Dark Shaman last lockout. We three tank, three healed Dark Shaman (one disc, with a healing raid lead, yes, ten man). We three healed Iron Jug with the "run the heck away for siege" strategy. (Yes, we do a lot better at making numbers than at staying out of bad).
    How did you assigned the healer? 2 with haromm or 2 with the other shaman?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    like 3 shot it

    just 3 tank it and make it way easier.
    You guys were world first H shamans 10 if I'm not mistaken. You posting how faceroll it is when your guild is obviously leaps and bounds ahead of most is not constructive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Dark Shamans is just so much harder than any of the other 7. Norushen is a exactly like normal, Immerseus is basically all about positioning and little else, Protectors will take some time but really just depends on executing the same mechanics over and over, with a small healing check. Galakras is pretty much the same as normal, higher heal check and requires one or two dps to kill an add every now and then. Juggernaut is really easy, we killed it 3rd, but only if you have good heals. Outrange him in P2 and have your dps heal through it with the healers. Sha is really really cool and requires everyone to know whats going on, all the mechanics come in a predictable order and its really about just moving and knowing when to soak and when to kill adds/fragment. Nazgrim is just add control. The more stuns and slows you have the better, the dps check is nonexistent, just cc the adds and you win. Shamans is a load of RNG bullshit. We are closing in on 70 pulls now with multiple sub-10% wipes 3-tanking it. We have tried solo healing top, two-healing top, two healing bottom, having a dps up top, having no dps up top, all with a variety of different raiders. Our closest pull was when we had a trial disc priest in, who then left after an issue with one of our dps. Having a priest makes the fight entirely different, to the point of being stupidly unbalanced. Our resto druid and resto shaman, who are typically miles ahead of any of the other healers we have trialed or run with, can not heal bottom due to lack of absorbs. When falling ash, toxic storm, and prisons happen within 5 seconds of each other (which, if it happens once, will continue to happen the entire pull, therefore making it an automatic wipe) there is nothing you can do to save the people with prisons without an absorb. Spriest disperse and iceblock from the mage have been our only two raiders to ever survive the combination out of at least 50 pulls getting to that point.

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