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  1. #1

    Siegecrafter Heroic [10M] help

    hi guys,
    we've been progressing this boss for a little now and seem to be a little clueless what to do. We've changed the strat quite a lot now, changing the kill order and our positioning, etc., but nothing seems to be really helpful.


    This is our setup:

    1x prot paladin
    1x blood dk

    1x warlock
    1x hunter
    1x shadow priest
    1x balance druid
    1x frost dk
    1x enh. shaman

    1x holy paladin
    1x resto druid


    Right now we're kinda struggling to figure out which kill order suits us the most. We've tried to always kill the turret and handle mines/lasers/magnets, but the mines situation got out of control pretty quickly. So we decided to not deal with the mines and deal with overcharged turrets instead. But this is where I see a problem: Ironically the overcharged missile turrets are quite easy to handle, but the ones not being overcharged are a pain in the ass, because you simply can't interrupt the waves by killing the shrapnel.
    Another problem I've noticed is, that our tanks keep complaining about the high dmg from the boss debuff and say they can only take 3 (at max!) and a 4th one would definitely kill them, no matter how many defensive CDs you'd stack up on them. Firstly, I'm not quite sure that's true, but I usually trust them, so I guess it would at least be quite hard for them to take another one, but secondly and more importantly is the fact, that I highly doubt they'll be able to handle the adds with only 3 stacks of the debuff, especially in situations where there are no lasers/saw blades to put the adds in.

    I guess what I'm asking for is basic advice and maybe some hints/tips, like weapon combinations you should definitely avoid, or other stuff, I don't know. It's not like I haven't watched a couple of hundred kill videos, but every "strat" looks so different from the one before and lots of times I haven't seen any structure in the raid at all, so I wouldn't really call them strats.

    Additionally: Are hunters still able to cheese the debuff with their disengages? I'm asking, because today our first attempts have been with 2 hunters trying to be on every single assembly line, but at some point one of our hunters kept saying, that he can't properly do it, because he's either getting targetted by a saw blade (if he cheeses it by standing on the edge of the tube and disengagin), or he hits an invisible wall and falls down like a rock (if he does it by jumping into the tube with a debuff and using disengage once he's being spit out again).



    Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks guys.

  2. #2
    We are currently progressing this boss on 10H. I'm a paladin tank, and the other tank is a warrior. We can definitely take 7 stacks without external cooldowns (just personals) but things like hand of sacrifice make it a lot easier to handle. So far we have ~150 tries on it and our best attempt is around 32%. We prioritise mines on every wave, except where we kill the missile on wave 3 and magnet on wave 8. We choose not to deal with mines as much since it takes away boss DPS and prolongs the fight unnecessarily. See the following diagram:

    1. Missile - Mines - Laser | Kill Mines | OC Missile
    2. Mines - Laser - Missile | Kill Mines | OC Laser
    3. Laser - Magnet - Missile | Kill Missile | OC Magnet
    4. Laser - Missile - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Missile
    5. Missile - Magnet - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Magnet
    6. Laser - Mines - Mines | Kill Mines | OC Mines
    7. Mines - Laser - Missile | Kill Mines | OC Missile
    8. Missile - Magnet - Mines | Kill Magnet | OC Mines
    9. Laser - Mines - Laser | Kill Mines | OC Laser

    The hardest point for us is where we get the overcharged laser, shockwave missiles, and magnet pull at the same time (wave 3-4). If you do get past this the rest of the fight is easier and you only have to deal with mines twice.

    For further tanking detail: our warrior starts tanking since his burst is better than mine is on the adds. He takes 3 stacks, I taunt. He kills his add, taunts the boss, gets to 5 stacks. I taunt the boss, he kills his add (you can kill it next to the boss if you like at this point, we choose not to to minimise number of overloads). He tauns the boss, gets to 7 stacks, and deals with the add. At this point I get my stacks and start dealing with my first add whilst the warrior's debuff runs off and we begin the process anew (3-5-7).

    To deal with the annoying overcharged laser and magnet pulls at the same time, we have most of the ranged group standing at the edge of the platform, near where you jump into the pipe to access the conveyor belt. This means they are safe from the sawblades being pushed towards them, but it requires some attention so you don't fall off the edge when the magnet pushes out. Jumping into the fire for one second to place a sawblade being fired at you is acceptable, the dot isn't too bad.

    Our raid composition:

    1x paladin tank
    1x warrior tank

    1x holy paladin
    1x disc priest

    1x mage
    1x ele shaman
    1x enh shaman
    1x boomkin
    1x rogue
    1x warlock

    Unfortunately we do not currently have a hunter. Our boomkin solos the first belt, then our ele and enh shamans take every uneven wave from there onwards (3, 5, 7, 9) and we have our rogue + warlock going for the even waves (2, 4, 6, 8).

    As for hunters, I believe they are still able to disengage onto the platform, but you will need the Glyph of Disengage to do so.

    Keep in mind we haven't killed the boss yet but this seems to work for us so far. When you survive the bit between wave 3-4 the hardest part is over. Good luck, and please reply if you have found a tactic that works for you guys.
    Last edited by Thaelarion; 2013-11-11 at 04:37 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelarion View Post
    The hardest point for us is where we get the overcharged laser, shockwave missiles, and magnet pull at the same time (wave 3-4). If you do get past this the rest of the fight is easier and you only have to deal with mines twice.

    To deal with the annoying overcharged laser and magnet pulls at the same time, we have most of the ranged group standing at the edge of the platform, near where you jump into the pipe to access the conveyor belt. This means they are safe from the sawblades being pushed towards them, but it requires some attention so you don't fall off the edge when the magnet pushes out. Jumping into the fire for one second to place a sawblade being fired at you is acceptable, the dot isn't too bad.
    We are having issues at exactly this point. We tried stacking up near the edge to the right of where people come out of the belt pipe, there's a wall so they can't fall off the platform due to sawblades or magnets, however we have issues with the overcharged laser + normal laser and also with sawblade positioning when the whole group is stacked up. Atm if you have a laser we go clockwise along the edge, if you have a sawblade place it counterclockwise in front of the group.

    Are you doing anything special to survive this phase?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelarion View Post
    We are currently progressing this boss on 10H. I'm a paladin tank, and the other tank is a warrior. We can definitely take 7 stacks without external cooldowns (just personals) but things like hand of sacrifice make it a lot easier to handle.
    Would you mind walking me through the process of you as a paladin tank taking the stacks? When do you pop which CD? Because our paladin tank gets one shotted, once he reaches stack #4, which I get. I'm just confused, because they get vaporized after stack 3 and others take up to 7 stacks. I mean the 4th stack is already 375.000*300% = 1.125mill.

  5. #5
    Paladins have this cooldown called Divine Protection that reduces magical damage taken by 40%. It's on 1 minute cooldown, talented 30 seconds, with vial it goes down to 24 seconds.
    With only this short-short cooldown, it's (borderline) possible to take 6th stack from the boss, although it's risky.
    If you play it safe, you can pop it on 5th, then you pop Guardian (shieldwall) on 6th, Argent defender + Divine protection on 7th, you could even take 8th with bubble.

    Getting oneshotted at stack 4 means he's not using anything whatsoever for it.

  6. #6
    IIRC we've done only 5 conveyor belt on our first boss kill. Here is the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc8hIn1YJK4 Kill was on 24 october. Now we pushing boss with only 3\4 belts depends if we 1 heal or 2 heal it now Try watch our video, it's pretty clear what order we've done.
    But if not:
    1 Mines
    2 Mines
    3 Magnet
    4 Mines
    5 Magnet
    Hunter still can get to belt always, but they need watch timers for saw blade and other stuff, so they can push feighn death etc. We have nearly identical setup expect healers, and you have much more gear than we have on 24 october, so boss not that hard, zergfest tbh
    Last edited by lolec123; 2013-11-12 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lolec123 View Post
    IIRC we've done only 5 conveyor belt on our first boss kill. Here is the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc8hIn1YJK4 Kill was on 24 october. Now we pushing boss with only 3\4 belts depends if we 1 heal or 2 heal it now Try watch our video, it's pretty clear what order we've done.
    But if not:
    1 Mines
    2 Mines
    3 Magnet
    4 Mines
    5 Magnet
    Hunter still can get to belt always, but they need watch timers for saw blade and other stuff, so they can push feighn death etc. We have nearly identical setup expect healers, and you have much more gear than we have on 24 october, so boss not that hard, zergfest tbh
    Did you guys cheat the conveyor belts by having a hunter go up on it every single time + another dps?

  8. #8
    Yes, hunter on all and hunter also solo 1 belt, 2nd hunt + balance druid, 3d hunt + mage, 4 hunt + balance druid, 5 hunt + mage, but it was on 24 Now with 1 healer it's just 1 belt - hunter solo, 2nd belt hunter with mage and 3 belt hunter solo again, and boss die, if we have 2 healer, 3 belt hunt + mage(2nd hunt+ balance) and 4 solo.

  9. #9
    It's exploiting - but both Moonkin and Hunter can enter every assembly line.


    From 00:50 in this clip, he uses Moonkin's Wild Charge just after he got spitted out from pipe. Hunter can do this too with Disengage.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ekardnah View Post
    It's exploiting
    I wouldn't say it is, cheesy and clever use of game mechanics sure, but exploit? I wouldn't say so.
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    I wouldn't say it is, cheesy and clever use of game mechanics sure, but exploit? I wouldn't say so.
    I dont know, blizzard doesn't like it because alot of the early tricks to jump on the belt were fixed, CaD , warlock portals.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckels View Post
    I dont know, blizzard doesn't like it because alot of the early tricks to jump on the belt were fixed, CaD , warlock portals.
    Well portals makes sense (basically every class could do it then where as atm I believe two can which makes it a bit of a gimmick/lucky coincidence instead of people making tactics relying purely on having a warlock), CaD forgive me but I'm not sure what that stands for atm

    To me it's clear blizzard doesn't intend for people to be on the belt permanently hence the debuff, but imo an exploit is a bannable offense or completely removes a phase or something making a fight a lot easier/different, where I would not consider this bannable or changing the fight so drastically that it would require a quick fix (like the Galakras "exploit" which I thought was REALLY stupid).
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Well portals makes sense (basically every class could do it then where as atm I believe two can which makes it a bit of a gimmick/lucky coincidence instead of people making tactics relying purely on having a warlock), CaD forgive me but I'm not sure what that stands for atm

    To me it's clear blizzard doesn't intend for people to be on the belt permanently hence the debuff, but imo an exploit is a bannable offense or completely removes a phase or something making a fight a lot easier/different, where I would not consider this bannable or changing the fight so drastically that it would require a quick fix (like the Galakras "exploit" which I thought was REALLY stupid).
    Its just blizzard usual double standards, you cant remove half the abilities to get on there and not fix the remaining, thats just utterly retarded by them.
    Great fixing rogues and warlocks...now fix druids and hunters.

    Not sure if its exploiting tho, but its as close as we come imo

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Well portals makes sense (basically every class could do it then where as atm I believe two can which makes it a bit of a gimmick/lucky coincidence instead of people making tactics relying purely on having a warlock), CaD forgive me but I'm not sure what that stands for atm

    To me it's clear blizzard doesn't intend for people to be on the belt permanently hence the debuff, but imo an exploit is a bannable offense or completely removes a phase or something making a fight a lot easier/different, where I would not consider this bannable or changing the fight so drastically that it would require a quick fix (like the Galakras "exploit" which I thought was REALLY stupid).
    Na I was on about their personal portal, i dont believe their raid portal ever worked? And cloak and dagger is CaD, when stealthed they can ambush a mob up to 40yards away, basicly shadowstep with more range.

  15. #15
    Okay, then I have to agree it's odd as heck that they haven't fixed Moonkins or Hunters.... But there might be some technical limitations for that....

    Eitherway like I said before I wouldn't call it an Exploit still, not intended & cheesy that's for sure

    (Mind you, if they fix it now it would also be a bit... Meh since a lot of guilds use this tactic now, especially to get first kills)
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  16. #16
    The rogue and warlocks abilities required a range to work and fixing that is probably easier... However, the Hunter and Druid are a form of movement - only way to bypass that is to make the belt that much further away or put an invisible wall, but that would also stop intended ways of coming of the belt if wanted :P In my opinion it's just clever and probably no way to change it without changing the fight.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hound02 View Post
    The rogue and warlocks abilities required a range to work and fixing that is probably easier... However, the Hunter and Druid are a form of movement - only way to bypass that is to make the belt that much further away or put an invisible wall, but that would also stop intended ways of coming of the belt if wanted :P In my opinion it's just clever and probably no way to change it without changing the fight.
    Putt an invisible wall until the first beam line, most of the time people wouldn't want to come off the belt there :P But yeah, your reasoning should be true, figured it will take a while for that fix if Blizzard even bother to fix it at all.

  18. #18
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    They probably won't. Putting invisible walls around the belt would just cause lots of problems. You say you could put it around the first beam line but where do you stop? Some people actually send 3 up and others send strong classes up to burst it down immediately. Having an imaginary cut off point doesn't seem to flow well with the game and causes really weird artificial nuances like 'make sure you don't try to jump off at this part of the belt, there is an invisible wall there'.

    Balance druids aren't very good on the belt anyway, unless they actually have CDs up.

    I bet the reason they kept it is because for one there is a lot higher risk involved in having hunter/balance get up than there was with rogue and all of the portal methods. The other reason is purely technical in that you can cause LoS issue but you would have to modify a particularly large area with walls and exit points that didn't exist before for the few who actually use hunters in this fashion.

    Personally I think it's cheesy and obviously not intended. However it doesn't trivialize the encounter by any stretch of the imagination. You'll wipe plenty of times because that class jumps at the wrong time, is at a weird angle or just falls off trying to get on the pipe. Relying on such a method also has the effect of instantly wiping you if something like this happens anyway.

  19. #19
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    Maybe it's because I'm a hunter, but I think it's somewhat okay because it requires a modicum of skill to get on the belt with disengage from the pipe. And that's why it's okay. I'm fairly certain they didn't intend for Devai to avoid tornado walls on H-Al'akir by jumping off the platform and then disengaging back on at an angle, but that actually requires a "skill shot" of sorts.

    As for the bug which allows disengage/wild charge to prevent the debuff from being applied AFTER entering the pipe...well, that's a silly bug which should be fixed. Making the choice to enter the pipe should result in the debuff.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm a hunter, but I think it's somewhat okay because it requires a modicum of skill to get on the belt with disengage from the pipe. And that's why it's okay. I'm fairly certain they didn't intend for Devai to avoid tornado walls on H-Al'akir by jumping off the platform and then disengaging back on at an angle, but that actually requires a "skill shot" of sorts.

    As for the bug which allows disengage/wild charge to prevent the debuff from being applied AFTER entering the pipe...well, that's a silly bug which should be fixed. Making the choice to enter the pipe should result in the debuff.
    You stand still, jump, press disengage, hardly the most skill required, the Al Akir thing requires instant reaction or you are dead.
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