Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #81
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybe over there
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    If it's a 94% decrease across the board, then http://www.wowhead.com/item=19137 will have worse stats than http://www.wowhead.com/item=38668 . So there's no way it could be a flat out 94% decrease to everything.
    If you'd follow that chart, you'd see that MC gear is untouched. BWL gear would be reduced by 1 stat or so. T6 gear would be around T3 (3 down), while T10 gear goes down to T4(6 down) and then the last one, T13 goes down to T6(7 down).
    As you can see the lower level gear is almost the same as it was before the squish, while later gear gets reduced much more.

    -edit- These aren't the real numbers, just to illustrate what's happening.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandaemonium View Post
    It's one of the things that are keeping me on the 'not buying', 'not-resubbing' side of the fence. I like the numbers and it's not about ego, it's just about really feeling like my character has become this epic hero and a part of the lore in my minds eye. I really don't want to feel like I am going back to BC/Wrath in terms of health and damage. It's just old, kind of like their material has been lately.
    Remember that you'll still be gaining power at every level, and still get new gear that's more powerful every step of the way. The difference is that the giant stat spikes at the start of every expansion will get smoothed out (and the later power gains proportionately smaller; i.e. if you were 150% more powerful at level 85 than you were at level 81, you'll still be 150% more powerful).

    Quote Originally Posted by Morendo View Post
    Thyranne - I'm intrigued by your reply, as that is not how I understood this would happen - mostly regarding 1-59 not scaling, and their plan to repeat the item squish. (And I admit I may have missed these details). Do you, or anyone else have any links to official posts regarding this?

    It seems odd to me that Blizzard would intentionally re-create (multiple times) the original problem that required them to even do an item squish.
    So, the problem is that with raiding, each tier of gear needs to be more powerful than the previous one in order to make sure gearing up feels appropriately epic. There also needs to be progression for the players; it's no good if getting gear from heroic Siege is only a small step above normal mode Heart of Fear. Where this all gets jumbled up is when they need to have a catch-up mechanism for players going straight from the end of one expansion to the start of another, it creates a giant hill and everything starts snowballing. It's a problem with no easy solution, since the numbers will always eventually grow larger.

    For instance, let's say that you want to make sure each tier is roughly 20% better than the tier before it. That means if the first tier is player power 100, the second tier needs to be 120, the third needs to be 144, then 173, 207, 248, and so on; eventually it spirals out of control. The jumps need to be there when the content is current, but they can be removed and smoothed out when the content is made irrelevant by a new expansion; you can go from player power 100 to player power 130 after five tiers, and "squish" everything between them.

  3. #83
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Over There
    Posts
    1,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Pearl View Post
    If you'd follow that chart, you'd see that MC gear is untouched. BWL gear would be reduced by 1 stat or so. T6 gear would be around T3 (3 down), while T10 gear goes down to T4(6 down) and then the last one, T13 goes down to T6(7 down).
    As you can see the lower level gear is almost the same as it was before the squish, while later gear gets reduced much more.

    -edit- These aren't the real numbers, just to illustrate what's happening.
    My post was less about the graph and more about the people saying it was going to be a flat out 94% (or whatever number they were saying) decrease to everything, which wouldn't work.

    I've used that graph multiple times, I realize that it will work similar to that.
    Last edited by Lime; 2013-11-11 at 11:41 PM.

    Big thanks to Yoni for making this Avatar and Signature!

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by einlanzer0 View Post
    Seriously, anyone who is opposed to the squish is an idiot. My fear is actually that they won't take it far enough. Think about it - how much more awesome would the game be if suddenly all of the content from previous expansions became available to do without being completely trivialized by you being so stupidly OP that you can one-shot everything and never even take damage?

    It would be so much fun to go back and duo Kara, for example, while retaining some semblance of challenge. Or to organize a small group of 3 or 4 friends to go take out Icecrown.
    Good way to start off your thread.

    /end sarcasm

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    what's the point of anything? there'll just be another expac aftewards.
    And your point is...?

  6. #86
    Fluffy Kitten Annoying's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Socorro, NM, USA
    Posts
    4,239
    Let me lay out some experience. I played the entirety of the WoD content available at Blizzcon. No time limit, no rushing, having the ability to properly set up my keys and all.

    If you look at numbers and care about numbers (not what they mean, just how big they are), you will be disappointed.
    If you look at performance and care about performance (regardless of the numbers and how big they are), you won't notice a whole lot.

    Yes, you only have something low like 2x,xxx or 3x,xxx HP. Yes, your previous WTFBBQ 4xx,xxx damage execute (or w/e they are doing now) will only be doing 2x,xxx damage now.
    But most importantly (for those who care about performance and not big numbers) you kill things just like you kill things now.

    The second I stopped looking at how big my SS or RvS hits were, and looked at how fast the enemy health was dropping proportionally to mine, was the same second I realized I was killing stuff at just under the pace that I kill stuff now. Given the characters were geared with SoO LFR gear with no normal, flex, or heroic items, it made sense.

    TL;DR:
    Big Numbers? Too bad for you.
    Relative Performance? It's the same!
    CPU: i7 3770k @ 4.9GHz | GPU: 2x EVGA GTX 670FTW LE 2GB (SLI) | RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600 MHz | Case: NZXT Switch 810 White | Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V Pro | CPU Cooler: Corsair H110 CLC | SSD: Intel 520 160GB | HDD: 3xWestern Digital Caviar Black 1TB | PSU: Antec TruePower Quattro 1200W | Displays: 3x BL2710PT IPS | Keyboard: Filco Majestouch 2 Tactile | Mouse: Razer Deathadder/Naga Epic | Car: Andromeda

  7. #87
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybe over there
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    My post was less about the graph and more about the people saying it was going to be a flat out 94% (or whatever number they were saying) decrease to everything, which wouldn't work.

    I've used that graph multiple times, I realize that it will work similar to that.
    Oh, nice. Then I hope the people who keep repeating that it will be a flat reduction, read these posts and finally realize that it just can't happen.

  8. #88
    There's been seriously ten billion threads about this damn topic, how can people still not get that it's not a mindless flat % nerf?

    Quote Originally Posted by einlanzer0 View Post
    Seriously, anyone who is opposed to the squish is an idiot. My fear is actually that they won't take it far enough. Think about it - how much more awesome would the game be if suddenly all of the content from previous expansions became available to do without being completely trivialized by you being so stupidly OP that you can one-shot everything and never even take damage?

    It would be so much fun to go back and duo Kara, for example, while retaining some semblance of challenge. Or to organize a small group of 3 or 4 friends to go take out Icecrown.
    The squish is not intended to do that. You are correct, it should have no real effect at all.

    However they have already created tech that will scale your character level as well as ilvl (there was an article a while back, you can actually access it today with some jiggery-pokery) so it's possible that in future you will be able to run old content with down-scaled toons.

  9. #89
    The Patient Renx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholydevil View Post
    That is a terrible idea because I don't play an RPG to get weaker and that is why the squish is sort of a silly idea in the first place.
    You're not getting weaker though. Numbers are just smaller.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Renx View Post
    You're not getting weaker though. Numbers are just smaller.
    that is what blizz is doing, but OP wants every character to get weaker so older contents would be a challenge.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Whats the point of lvling up then?
    What is the point of leveling up in GW2? Way, way off topic, but I'll explain briefly.

    In GW2, leveling up:
    expands the amount of abilities you can know.
    It gives you access to specializations that change how certain abilities interact with one another,
    it allows you to equip items with a larger amount of stats on them rather than just higher stats,
    it increases the amount of zones you can play in and content you can interact with,
    it increases the variety of armor skins available to you.

    Essentially leveling gives you a greater breadth of options rather than having you out level everything in a series. It's a different way of doing things, and it rubs some people the wrong way; but it serves as a good method of differentiating the game play style of GW2 from most standard MMOs.

    If this isn't enough clarification, and you are honestly interested, it's probably best to ask in the GW2 forum rather than here. (I know you didn't take this off topic, I'm not blaming anyone here)

    Taking this back to Warcraft stats
    Warcraft focuses quite a bit on power progression, so having those numbers tick upward tickles some people; there's really nothing wrong with that. I can completely understand people not wanting to really think about how leveling and gearing does little more than restrict what they can do in the game in a manner that's well tuned and engaging. It's frustrating to have the numbers jerked around, exposing how easily everything could be adjusted to stay current forever, then not be given that option.

  12. #92
    Bloodsail Admiral Annarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,020
    Why does everyone think that the squish is only affecting 90 gear? Everything will be squished linearly, so your 90 gear will still be better than the 85 gear. Why would anyone assume they were just gonna nerf 90 and leave everything else intact?

  13. #93
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hell aka Detroit
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by einlanzer0 View Post
    Seriously, anyone who is opposed to the squish is an idiot. My fear is actually that they won't take it far enough. Think about it - how much more awesome would the game be if suddenly all of the content from previous expansions became available to do without being completely trivialized by you being so stupidly OP that you can one-shot everything and never even take damage?

    It would be so much fun to go back and duo Kara, for example, while retaining some semblance of challenge. Or to organize a small group of 3 or 4 friends to go take out Icecrown.
    All i read from this is "Anyone who has a different opinion than me regarding the item squish is an idiot."

    Constructive feedback and respecting other people for their different ideas helps lead to better cooperation and is one step closer to achieving the perfect middle ground.

    Of course your post also reeks of fanboy-ish behavior and attitude. But hey if that is your opinion, you have the right to be a sheep as much as I have a right to have my own ideas regarding the squish.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholydevil View Post
    That is a terrible idea because I don't play an RPG to get weaker and that is why the squish is sort of a silly idea in the first place.
    Turn off recount/skada & damage txt, and you'll never know the difference
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos- View Post
    I literally die every time i see people using literally wrong.

  15. #95
    lets say your auto attack does 10k damage and takes ten swings to kill a 100k mob,
    after squish it will be lets say 1k auto attack on a 10k hp mob still take ten swings to kill just smaller numbers not to hard to work out

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Annarion View Post
    Why does everyone think that the squish is only affecting 90 gear? Everything will be squished linearly, so your 90 gear will still be better than the 85 gear. Why would anyone assume they were just gonna nerf 90 and leave everything else intact?
    Click here and find the answer!

    But you may say:

    "Oh but they'll squish from 1 to 90" then I say "if they do level 1 characters will have near 1 hp and do less than 1 damage per attack" then I wait for your answer.

  17. #97
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hell aka Detroit
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by einlanzer0 View Post
    Pro-squish people bust out insults because being opposed to the squish is just dumb zealotry.
    Once again, you only make the gap between people bigger. Nothing cooperative; just blind accusations and mouth foaming.

    The more the pro squishers tend to lash out at anyone who thinks otherwise....

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    This begs the question, will older raids scale down like that.
    IT doesn't beg the question, the squish is not just for items, that's obvious. They said it won't affect our ability to solo content, that's all you need to know.
    Ret Paladin
    10/14H T16

  19. #99
    Pandaren Monk Lora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Some random weird place
    Posts
    1,810
    The item squish is stupid but its happening so whatever. That being said, anything that is currently soloable will remain soloable. Everything in the game will be adjusted so that you can continue to do whatever it is you enjoy soloing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thedead241 View Post
    I'm a prostitute. Men like to tell me secrets. And women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robozerim View Post
    Also....my condolences to whoever is Lora's lover. You got matched up with a madman, regardless of his alignment.

  20. #100
    During the panel at Blizzcon when they were discussing itemsquish, they said that they will reduce the ilevel jumps from raids at levels 60, 70, 80 and 85. So the power at those levels will be flattened severely.

    Quote from blizzcon:

    "Most of our item inflation comes from previous raidtiers. But it's much less important that BWL gear is a massive upgrade over Molten Core gear. Yeah people's still running that old content, and we're cool with that, but it's not that big of a deal that BWL gear is much higher itemlevel anymore. So we're just going to flatten out all of the big jumps that come at the previous raidtiers at these levels (60, 70, 80 and 85.)"

    Basicly they nerf the ilevel inflations at the lower level tiers, and that's how we end up with the numbers we have now. We aren't weaker, we diminished at the same rate that the other gear did and we kept our relative power. The old gear however lost some stats, but only level 60, 70, 80 etc twinks would notice a difference.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •