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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Imagine a blink-like spell, where you use holy stuff to appear at your targets location, dazing them for a sec or two. Would be cool..
    Maybe an ability where you can swap places with someone. As a tank you could swap places with another tank, and you would keep their threat on you. Kinda like a taunt+swap places. As Ret in PvP, you could swap places with another dps if they're focusing on you. Instead of targeting you, the swap would switch places and target the other player.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Maybe an ability where you can swap places with someone. As a tank you could swap places with another tank, and you would keep their threat on you. Kinda like a taunt+swap places. As Ret in PvP, you could swap places with another dps if they're focusing on you. Instead of targeting you, the swap would switch places and target the other player.
    and the point of said swap for ret?
    does it provide us with gap closer?
    Sure as sure

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    and the point of said swap for ret?
    does it provide us with gap closer?
    It's situational. For example, lets say your Mage Arena friend is in trouble, and you need to be there asap. So you can swap places with the Mage, where the Mage will end up further away, just how they like it, and right there to melee where you like it. I guess for more utility, it can be used on enemy targets as well.

    Of course in raids you could be the biggest jerk. Swapping places with melee who are closer to your destination. It could be great utility if you could swap places with an enemy target, used almost like a death grip. So like in the Galakras fight where they need that Shaman or Bonecrushers, you could swap places with them so the dps can bring them down quicker.

    To make it feel less of being a jerk, the swapped target can also receive or give a speed buff. Swap with a friendly target will give them a 100% speed boost for 4 seconds. Swap with a enemy target will give you a speed boost for 100% for 4 seconds. Again, don't like it then feel free to give out your own suggestion. I'm just trying to avoid taking Warriors Charge and slapping the word Holy or Crusader in front of it and giving it to Paladins.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    It's situational. For example, lets say your Mage Arena friend is in trouble, and you need to be there asap. So you can swap places with the Mage, where the Mage will end up further away, just how they like it, and right there to melee where you like it. I guess for more utility, it can be used on enemy targets as well.

    Of course in raids you could be the biggest jerk. Swapping places with melee who are closer to your destination. It could be great utility if you could swap places with an enemy target, used almost like a death grip. So like in the Galakras fight where they need that Shaman or Bonecrushers, you could swap places with them so the dps can bring them down quicker.

    To make it feel less of being a jerk, the swapped target can also receive or give a speed buff. Swap with a friendly target will give them a 100% speed boost for 4 seconds. Swap with a enemy target will give you a speed boost for 100% for 4 seconds. Again, don't like it then feel free to give out your own suggestion. I'm just trying to avoid taking Warriors Charge and slapping the word Holy or Crusader in front of it and giving it to Paladins.
    so here you are, stuck fighting 1v1 LMS against a mage.
    what good will your "swap thing" do as a gap closer?
    No good.
    In fact, you wont be able to fething use it.
    So no.
    bad idea is bad.
    Sure as sure

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    so here you are, stuck fighting 1v1 LMS against a mage.
    what good will your "swap thing" do as a gap closer?
    No good.
    In fact, you wont be able to fething use it.
    So no.
    bad idea is bad.
    That's what your stun is for....sure, mages can blink out of stuns, but if you do it right, they'll blink right into you

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    That's what your stun is for....sure, mages can blink out of stuns, but if you do it right, they'll blink right into you
    uh-huh, I can play that game too.


    If mage does everything right, he wont blink into you.


    your move?
    Sure as sure

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    uh-huh, I can play that game too.


    If mage does everything right, he wont blink into you.


    your move?
    Nah, it's no fun to play when your opponent's only answer is "qq I want THAT GUY'S toy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Nah, it's no fun to play when your opponent's only answer is "qq I want THAT GUY'S toy"
    would you be as kind as to direct me at said quote where I said that?
    Or failing that, would you be as kind as to stop with this gakking nonsense?
    Sure as sure

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    so here you are, stuck fighting 1v1 LMS against a mage.
    what good will your "swap thing" do as a gap closer?
    No good.
    In fact, you wont be able to fething use it.
    So no.
    bad idea is bad.
    The idea is that the talent shouldn't be as powerful or as direct as other gap closers. Seems to be a theme with developers and Paladins. So if you use it badly then you get bad results, but if you use it well then you'll get good results. Also 1v1 isn't how WoW was meant to be played, but if it's a Frost Mage you could swap places with it's pet, which is usually beside the Mage. Shadow Priest, swap places with it's Psyfiend or other pet. Swap places with Warlock pet. You'd pretty much close the gap with nearly any ranged dps classes pet, with the exception of Hunters. But hey, you can't win them all.

    It doesn't hurt to think outside of the box.
    Last edited by Dukenukemx; 2013-11-13 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    The idea is that the talent shouldn't be as powerful or as direct as other gap closers. Seems to be a theme with developers and Paladins. So if you use it badly then you get bad results, but if you use it well then you'll get good results. Also 1v1 isn't how WoW was meant to be played, but if it's a Frost Mage you could swap places with it's pet, which is usually beside the Mage. Shadow Priest, swap places with it's Psyfiend or other pet. Swap places with Warlock pet. You'd pretty much close the gap with nearly any ranged dps classes pet, with the exception of Hunters. But hey, you can't win them all.

    It doesn't hurt to think outside of the box.
    well how bout an actual powerful and useful and not overly complicated talent for Ret for a change?
    Said swap would not allow for swapping between ret and an enemy for obvious balancing reasons(swap+bubble combo would be an abuse)


    Thinking outside the box wouldnt hurt the devs.
    Sure as sure

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    well how bout an actual powerful and useful and not overly complicated talent for Ret for a change?
    Said swap would not allow for swapping between ret and an enemy for obvious balancing reasons(swap+bubble combo would be an abuse)


    Thinking outside the box wouldnt hurt the devs.
    Then we're talking about giving Paladins a charge, and this does bring up many issues for developers.

    #1 Homogenization is a complaint they hear often from the community, and a charge for Paladins would only enforce it.
    #2 Giving charge to Ret would make it very attractive for players to go Ret. It's a fun and great ability to have, but then Holy and Prot would be left out. Giving charge to Prot isn't a problem, but to Holy it would be OP in PvP. So they'd have to leave out charge for Holy, but then less players would play as Holy. Developers do want Paladins to spec Holy.
    #3 They'd have to remove Freedom from the Paladin class, as Freedom+Charge would be OP. At least remove Freedom from Ret/Prot if they get charge.

  12. #32
    i don't want to sound pessimist but, any good idea that would help to enhance ret s given to warriors

    paladins ask for blink? warrior got leap
    paladins ask for snare? they have it for 2 patch then need to glyph for it. warrior have 2, 1 of them is a basic ability
    paladins ask for dps with shield? now warriors have gladiator stance
    the list can go on...

    what we have now? a talent that add another lame seal. other that make us seal swaping AGAIN . and make holy dmg out hit harder but at cost of little % less. (ret version, holy is another bored issue)
    so, the fun part is given to warriors and the obsolete mechanics are given to paladins.
    deal with it

  13. #33
    I assume that is ment to be a class balance for being able to heal and dps with tools, while having some of the best armour.

  14. #34
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    You get the idea?
    Do you really want to compare talented gap closure abilities?
    Do you realise Rets actually have to pick talents just so they become a somewhat proper melee spec?
    I haven't visited the paladin forums since I dropped my pally in mid cataclysm, I just knew they'd still be a complaint thread somewhere on the first page and had to check. To be honest though, if this is the calibre of complaints paladins have now, you don't know how lucky you are.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  15. #35
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    *Grabs popcorn while this thread goes on, waits until the WoD changes pop up and no gap closer is given to us and another thread opens up*
    WoW without flying is like having Pizza, instead of flying right over it

  16. #36
    let me begin by saying "thank you" for a good and well-thought post.

    now then, let us argue...


    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Then we're talking about giving Paladins a charge, and this does bring up many issues for developers.
    no we are not, there are myriads of ways to buff/re-do our existing talents.
    But charge is the easiest solution, and entirely sound about issue paladins have .



    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    #1 Homogenization is a complaint they hear often from the community, and a charge for Paladins would only enforce it.
    homogenization is bad indeed.
    but it is worse making class/spec close tounplayable on any pro level in fear of said homogenization.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    #2 Giving charge to Ret would make it very attractive for players to go Ret. It's a fun and great ability to have, but then Holy and Prot would be left out. Giving charge to Prot isn't a problem, but to Holy it would be OP in PvP. So they'd have to leave out charge for Holy, but then less players would play as Holy. Developers do want Paladins to spec Holy.
    there are ways of avoiding said issue, f.e. said Charge could (like a few talents do already) work differently for different classes, like longer cd, or stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    #3 They'd have to remove Freedom from the Paladin class, as Freedom+Charge would be OP. At least remove Freedom from Ret/Prot if they get charge.
    Because paladins use HoF on oneselves often?
    Is warrior OP when he's provided a HoF from his teammate?
    I dont see an issue here tbh.


    and to not sound like a complainer, here are a few ideas about our Tier15, hope you guys like em.



    Pursuit/Chains of Justice


    15/20 sec cd, 5-7 sec duration, instant, 35 yard range

    Puts a debuff on enemy target called "Pursuit/Chains of Justice" which does not allow said target to get away further than 15 yards from casting paladin, if used further from 15 yards, instantly teleports paladin in a 15 yard range of enemy, also passively increases paladins runspeed by 25%(and by additional 5% for every HoPo paladin has stored, up to +15% more) and decreases affected enemy's runspeed by 25%



    Speed of Light

    15 seconds cd(for Ret)
    Increases runspeed by 150% for 4 seconds(and probably awards 1 HoPo)


    Long arm of no you dont get to charge

    same cd, inreases runspeed by 75-100% for 2 seconds, provides immunity against slows/roots for duration, dampens already existing efects on paladin for duration .


    Hope you guys find some rational seed in my ideas, enjoy.
    Sure as sure

  17. #37
    As someone who raided Throne of Thunder on my ret paladin, I also agree that multi-target movement intensive fights were death on my DPS. I would utterly wreck and destroy on fights with much less movement like Jin'rokh or even Lei Shen, but fights like Horridon and Iron Qon were laughable and I got yelled at a few times by my raid leader.

  18. #38
    I think we should get a grip, sure its a Dk ability but that kind of thinking has been going away the last few years(heroism and so on), I think some kind of Holy grip would Fit best with paladins, som kind of Death grip and Leap of Faith combo would be awsome, Maybe a lvl 30 talent that replaces our Fist of justice just for some tradeoff

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Citykid View Post
    I think we should get a grip, sure its a Dk ability but that kind of thinking has been going away the last few years(heroism and so on), I think some kind of Holy grip would Fit best with paladins, som kind of Death grip and Leap of Faith combo would be awsome, Maybe a lvl 30 talent that replaces our Fist of justice just for some tradeoff
    no trade-offs.
    no more.
    you've got to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
    Last edited by Storm the Sorrow; 2013-11-14 at 09:20 AM. Reason: engrish ;[
    Sure as sure

  20. #40
    I'd actually prefer something different altogether that gives some meaning to the word "retribution". A spell, on a shortish cd perhaps with a couple of charges, that when cast on the target inflicts damage (holy i guess) based on their distance from you, or gives you a stacking buff that can be unleashed when you get to them. This in conjunction with long arm would suit me fine, and wouldnt make me feel like i needed a charge. Just an idea.

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