1. #1

    What's the end game DK useful for?

    This question has been asked many times for different reasons. Any kind of end game DK's input would be phenomenal.

    I feel that every endgame raiding guild is using a Prot Paladin over a DK for their obvious reasons. According to sims and logs DK DPS isn't as high as everyone else either. So if you're a high end DK are you just there to be there or do you bring actual utility to the raid?

    That's not just add control, that's just in general. Druids can battle rez, along with warlocks both of which do much higher damage than DKs do.
    Arenas are highly favorable against DKs.

    So if you're a godmode DK, what do you bring to the table? Yes bring skill not the class but if your damage isn't high because numbers just won't back up the skill what are you useful for besides a raid filler spot?

  2. #2
    I dont think there are any huge reasons when a group MUST have a dk.. but... a good player is a good player and the dps isnt THAT bad...

  3. #3
    1. Damage that is comparable to anything that isn't a effete dress-wearing pussy, rogue, or warrior.
    2. Utility that is comparable to most other classes.

    /end thread

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geekachu View Post
    Arenas are highly favorable against DKs.
    Unholy is as good in arena as any DPS spec that isn't arms warrior or frost mage

  4. #4
    Some raiders have said that if they had to choose a melee DPS (in 10mans atleast) they would always pick a rogue. Rogues have so much to offer even if they are below avarage in parses. WW Monks have had this problem for some time now but our DPS is starting to get really nasty so that have definetly helped us get back into the raiding roster. I think.

  5. #5
    basically the main thing dk's have are their grips, which are very useful. both deathgrip (even as dps, when glyphed to not taunt) and gorefiends grasp are very useful on many fights this tier.

    i dont understand why dk mobility is so poor compared to other melee (who all have some combination of charges, leaps, and sprints) other than some sort of pvp balance issue that i don't know/care about.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    basically the main thing dk's have are their grips, which are very useful. both deathgrip (even as dps, when glyphed to not taunt) and gorefiends grasp are very useful on many fights this tier.

    i dont understand why dk mobility is so poor compared to other melee (who all have some combination of charges, leaps, and sprints) other than some sort of pvp balance issue that i don't know/care about.
    More/Stronger ranged attacks has been the reasoning for a while now.

    And yes, the only real reason you want a DK in your raidgroup if you're cutting edge is the grips, especially AoE grip has seen insane uses this expac.

    Most guilds would take a Rogue as their melee DPS; because they have a very easy time to get out of deadly situations, or they can ignore mechanics alltogether so they can slam the shit out of the boss during the time that most DPS is running for their lives.

  7. #7
    We bring aoe grip and anti magic zone, and we let you not shard strength gear.

    If you aren't raiding 25 mans you probably have better options.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Negative's Avatar
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    Because you bring the player not the class. Unless you are in a top end guild it DOESN'T MATTER!
    Last edited by Negative; 2013-11-16 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Went full retard

  10. #10
    Warchief Thereign's Avatar
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    Well, not really for damage. Utility is great, between gorefiends and deathgrip, but I'm consistently middle of the pack this tier, with all ranged classes completely blowing me out of the water, except for shadow priests. Not a big fan of that.

  11. #11
    grip bitch and decent aoe damage.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    At the start of this tier I picked up a warforged 2H in the first raid and switched to 2H frost (from Unholy).

    Since then I've been constantly one of the top DPS in the team, ranking on most fights (namechanged and lost all my ranks from previous tier = sad times). Granted we don't have any warlocks or rogues ;-). Decided to switch to DW the other day with a couple of normal (non warforged) 1H weapons and swapping normal skeer's for flex thok's trinket. Excitement loomed as I prepared to take my rightful spot at the top of the DPS charts.

    But no, I was last on pretty much every fight - I'm obviously rusty as sin at DW even after playing it during HoF.

    DPS-wise I'm slipping behind other classes in our raid that gain noticeable increases to DPS with each ilvl they gain (even if I'm a couple of ilvls behind our other DPS classes - that never seemed to stop me before). I seem to take more damage than the ret paladin and feral druid we have during phases like empowered whirling corruption (even with AMS) AND I can't play our "best" DPS spec effectively. My DK ego has taken a massive knock and I'm swapping back to unholy for our sunday raid just so I can start to enjoy the game again (spamming obliterate for 7mins might net me a decent rank but the monotony saddens me). I don't have high hopes for Unholy either seeing as this is what the DK population looks like on our server (Vmagik was me a few weeks and a few ilvls ago before the namechange - wowprogress hasn't cleared the character. Vm is me now as unholy)



    ...Er, yeah rant over.

    DKs have grips, stuns, a battle rez, AMZ - none of which are "essential" but do add a bit of flexibility when it comes to who you take. We can do moderate damage, on par with non warlock/mage/warrior/rogue classes (if you're not me and you don't suck).
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Negative View Post
    Because you bring the class not the player. Unless you are in a top end guild it DOESN'T MATTER!
    you mean "you bring the player not the class" right?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Geekachu View Post
    This question has been asked many times for different reasons. Any kind of end game DK's input would be phenomenal.

    I feel that every endgame raiding guild is using a Prot Paladin over a DK for their obvious reasons. According to sims and logs DK DPS isn't as high as everyone else either. So if you're a high end DK are you just there to be there or do you bring actual utility to the raid?

    That's not just add control, that's just in general. Druids can battle rez, along with warlocks both of which do much higher damage than DKs do.
    Arenas are highly favorable against DKs.

    So if you're a godmode DK, what do you bring to the table? Yes bring skill not the class but if your damage isn't high because numbers just won't back up the skill what are you useful for besides a raid filler spot?
    Dunno about your raid, but I get my spot because I am a good player, know how to adjust tactics and when to deviate from it, can preserve battle resses/prioritise resses depending on the situation without being begged by the raid leader and can grip shit, which is sometimes rather useful. Not a game deciding skill, but as a DK you can raise the comfort level of your tanks, giving them more tiime to deal with the critical positionings to improve melee dps etc.

    Oh and don't underestimate the DK cleave, it's not too shabby, really.

  15. #15
    That is the...............yes, I am going to say it.............."scaling issue" (GASP! No one tell Blizzard the scaling issue came up again), Vmagik. That has been the case for many, many tiers now. They adjust our base damage at the beginning of a tier (sometimes putting it too high and leading to quick nerfs) to be where they want it, then we slowly drop back as more gear is acquired. I think everyone acknowledges that it is a problem, even Blizzard, though they refuse to do so publicly. The solutions require major changes and I honestly hope they get to it for WoD but I have no confidence that they will. It sucks being borderline too strong at the start and then being dead last at the end.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Razorice's Avatar
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    Scaling. It's always Scaling with us DK's. Blizzard should really look into it and maybe do some changes for WoD. I don't want to be that super-OP class, I just want to be able to stand my ground against other classes when we acquire most of the gear.

  17. #17
    Unfortunately blizzard don't want to discuss scaling with anyone because most of the community doesn't understand what the issues are.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Negative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgromir View Post
    you mean "you bring the player not the class" right?
    Haha yeah my bad.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    That is the...............yes, I am going to say it.............."scaling issue" (GASP! No one tell Blizzard the scaling issue came up again), Vmagik. That has been the case for many, many tiers now. They adjust our base damage at the beginning of a tier (sometimes putting it too high and leading to quick nerfs) to be where they want it, then we slowly drop back as more gear is acquired. I think everyone acknowledges that it is a problem, even Blizzard, though they refuse to do so publicly. The solutions require major changes and I honestly hope they get to it for WoD but I have no confidence that they will. It sucks being borderline too strong at the start and then being dead last at the end.
    I get tears in the Eye when i read something like this. Its true, its true. Thanks M8!

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire strombae's Avatar
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    beating k rool.... duh
    Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

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