Disc performance review (9/14 hc)

[Deleted]

Hello mmo-champion priests,

I know this topic is getting boring (why is everyone playing disc anyway), but hopefully you'll help me out with troubles. I'm currently in a semi-hardcore guild (4 raids per week, progressing on Spoils) and I noticed that our Priest, who plays disc most of the time, makes some "rather unorthodox" choices both in gearing and in play-style.

I haven't raided in a very long time though and I don't really have anyone to compare. In addition, since I am not raiding heroics on my priest, I do not know how much some of his "mistakes" are holding him and us back (or if they are mistakes at all). Therefore I would like you to help me decide if my fears of him underperforming are justified and I should approach him trying to correct him or if his level of performance is to be expected in a guild with our kind progress.

I would like to avoid any drama, so I will only approach him if you truly think that he needs to change.


Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Mama/advanced
Dark Shamans: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx...?s=3036&e=3511
Nazgrim: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx...?s=6268&e=6879
Spoils attempts: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b9nn9...6/?s=570&e=830

It would also be nice if you could justify your decision by pointing at specific things or summarizing the issues. Thanks in advance for your help.

[nongnong]

I wonder what on the earth he is doing with that 18,000+ spirit as disc.......

[Haywire5714]

I wonder what on the earth he is doing with that 18,000+ spirit as disc.......

Perhaps he's trying to make shield spam viable lol

[Gromok]

This is a really peculiar situation. Here are good and bad things I see:

Good
•his up-time on Archangel seems good on Nazgrim, though it is a little low on Dark Shaman (considering that's a more bubbly fight I'm not too worried about that)
•his activity with attonement dps & with PW:S seem ok to me

Bad
•his PoM is a bit low (especially on Dark Shaman)
•Cascade is bad in 10-mans, he needs to be taking Halo on Dark Shaman and Nazgrim
•for the love of God, he needs Twist of Fate (not Power Infusion) on Spoils (and to a lesser extend on Nazgrim)
•his Spirit is ridiculously high, Disc can run around 9,000-11,000 Spirit and be fine (I would be really curious where he is at, at the end of fights)
•he is running a full Mastery build (as opposed to the default Crit build that Disc is supposed to run). This is bad and it is demonstrably so in his Divine Aegis healing. Those numbers would be a lot higher if he was crit.
•on his belt, he's actually reforged OUT of crit and into Haste, which is really bad

It is clear to me this guy is healing as Disc (pushing mostly the right buttons), with not a very good build (needs to think about and spec for each boss individually), and with a Holy set of gear on. This gear would be pretty good, if he was Holy.

You do need to talk to him. While he is doing 'ok' (certainly he doesn't look like a bad healer), he is holding you guys back. Maybe suggest he just go Holy. With 2 Paladins (weird healing comp, btw) you have plenty of absorbs and would benefit from all that Holy brings to the raid.

[Deleted]

I dont think your other healers are super either looking into malkorok? I think you all should be like 200k+ HPS as not much really is overhealing in that fight.

[manybadgers]

She shouldn't be geming haste and she has tons of spirit that she can drop.

[kaamila]

way too much spirit especially with that spirit stack trinket. tell her to drop to 11k or less depending on what shes comfy with(i usually go with 11.2k)and go full crit. she should also probably use the dps legendary most of the time and go twist of fate(great for procc'ing ToF on adds)

[Deleted]

She shouldn't be geming haste and she has tons of spirit that she can drop.

To expand. He doesn't seem to have any clue about stats. Not only is the amount of spirit way over the top, but reforges are completely missing. There is no clear stat priority, all gear is unreforged and both haste and mastery gems were used. Gems should be int/crit, spirit/crit and pure crit, nothing else. The stat priority is simply spirit to 8000-11000 (personal preference really) and then crit > mastery > haste. 9000 spirit dropped could be 15% more crit.

As others already went over the logs, I'll just respond to what you actually asked: Yes, that guy is seriously underperforming. The lack of clue about stats is a big red light, so are the talents and spells used. As a Disc, he should leave the other healers way behind in healing done, there's not even a way that a paladin could heal more than a disc. 10-man disc healing is still in a ridiculous place just like it was in ToT and the logs you posted don't reflect that at all.

[Deleted]

cascade is not a bad choice in 10 mans, especially on Dshamans in case of falling ash you can shield mostly everyone with cascade+AA (if your crit is high enough)
but of course it really depends on you group comp and positioning. on the firstkill i used halo but in my opinion its not a good choice when the bosses are <50% (you can top every boy IF! you have good positioning, but there are many movement restrictions[like tank kite path with blobs, falling ash, tornados] that it is not always possible)

(i got ranked on 10 man hc shamans yesterday with cascade as 90 talent, so the choice can not be that bad - BUT shamans is noch real heal encounter ^^)

if you 3 heal malkorok how could you do above 200k hps eacht? (we 2 heal it with druid&disc and are at around 210k each..., so i can not see how 3 healers can do 600khps vs our 420 khps...)

as mentioned above: too much spirit, bad talent choice and reforging is not optimal.
while in theory mastery>crit (from hps perspective) in experience crit is much better, since it also increases the raid dps and makes the 90talents with yulon trinket proc incredible good!
--> crit>mastery>spirit(around 10k, depends on your playstyle)>haste (haste is a nice throughput stat, but the more haste you take, the more spirit you will need!)

[laplacedemon]

if you 3 heal malkorok how could you do above 200k hps eacht? (we 2 heal it with druid&disc and are at around 210k each..., so i can not see how 3 healers can do 600khps vs our 420 khps...)

Because there is no overhealing for the vast majority of the fight. WoL doesn't count overhealing on targets with Ancient Barrier, even if you're overhealing a green shielded target. So the number of healers don't really matter.

On topic... The priest in question used Inner Focus once the whole night.

[Deleted]

naa thats just wrong laplace
worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx1noa2tusmwx/details/12/?s=5073&e=5442
wol counts the overheal

[Deleted]

The only existing overheal on Malkorok P1 is shields placed by the healers (not ancient barrier) that fall off. For most healers there's basically 0 overheal on that part of the fight, even with the shields capped healing keeps counting - just like with Tortos HC.

Back OT: Your priest should pretty much go all out of spirit and all into crit as much as possible. Which T6 he's using is - up to a certain extent - personal preference. He also seems to be very heavy on the atonement on nazgrim.

[Deleted]

the absorbs of most spells are counted in DA, what is the WoL overheal from the other spells then?

[Fluttershy]

Too much spirit. I can poh-pom non-stop in my holy offspec on malkorok with 12k spirit and not worry about mana.

Even on H thok where I just spam shields all day from 8-25 stacks I can still have mana left over for the rest of the fight.

[babylon]

Perhaps he's trying to make shield spam viable lol

shield spam is viable with less spirit already. here, for example, 11k + regen trinkets (siegecrafter and horridon) goes fine on thok hc shield spam, followed by mass dispels. nothing lol about it :/

[Kacie]

I would reforge at least 4 - 5 k of that spirit to crit, his crit is very low for disc, and you don't really need more then 12k spirit as disc, since he does AA alot it would be wise to up that crit to 35% or so.

[Lahkesis]

I would like to avoid any drama, so I will only approach him if you truly think that he needs to change.

I think that you would see a huge performance boost out of the this priest if they:

1)Swapped their gems. For now, if gemming is something they are iffy on the standard of Yellow = Pure Crit, Red = Int/Crit, Blue = Spirit/Crit would do wonders for them.

2) Even if they don't want to drop an enormous amount of spirit, they should reforge their gear to crit - <mastery> - then spirit. They have a mind-boggling amount of spirit. My guild only does normal and with two resto shammies and one regen trinket (Seigecrafter) I run 8,400K spirit and really never run out to the point where I have zero options for regen. Considering the player also takes Mindbender, I'm not sure why they are scared of running out of mana.

When my guild first started I was really scared of running out of mana all the time so I had way more spirit than I really needed. Once I dropped my spirit down and pushed my throughput stats up, I went from being an "okay" asset to the guild to being a healer they don't want to raid without. I was much happier personally with my performance as well.

If you're looking for a way to approach the subject diplomatically, you could always ask them about their stat priority and why they chose it because you want to "gear your own"/"get back into" priest. Then you can open a dialogue that helps them explain themselves while you talk about what you've read on MMO and other places regarding the Disc Priest and their options this patch.

[laplacedemon]

the absorbs of most spells are counted in DA, what is the WoL overheal from the other spells then?

It's like how Saryn wrote. (You linked Nazgrim btw, not sure if it was a mistake or if you wanted to show WoL generally shows overhealing)

Like one of their tries on Malkorok:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx...=11889&e=12170

Most of the overheals are from absorbs which aren't used, like Atonement has 0% overhealing. That's because just like the Searing Plasma on Spine, all the heals are noted as 'absorbed' in the combatlog. (You can check it by going into Analyze -> Healing done and write "absorbed > 0" into Expression) Even if the Ancient Barrier is full, incoming heals will continue to be absorbed, otherwise they would actually heal (in sense of they would increase hp). Therefore, there is no overhealing if there's a buff/debuff absorbing heals.

[jason1975]

Hello mmo-champion priests,

I know this topic is getting boring (why is everyone playing disc anyway), but hopefully you'll help me out with troubles. I'm currently in a semi-hardcore guild (4 raids per week, progressing on Spoils) and I noticed that our Priest, who plays disc most of the time, makes some "rather unorthodox" choices both in gearing and in play-style.

I haven't raided in a very long time though and I don't really have anyone to compare. In addition, since I am not raiding heroics on my priest, I do not know how much some of his "mistakes" are holding him and us back (or if they are mistakes at all). Therefore I would like you to help me decide if my fears of him underperforming are justified and I should approach him trying to correct him or if his level of performance is to be expected in a guild with our kind progress.

I would like to avoid any drama, so I will only approach him if you truly think that he needs to change.


Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Mama/advanced
Dark Shamans: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx...?s=3036&e=3511
Nazgrim: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h4bnx...?s=6268&e=6879
Spoils attempts: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b9nn9...6/?s=570&e=830

It would also be nice if you could justify your decision by pointing at specific things or summarizing the issues. Thanks in advance for your help.

Echo what others have said above. Generally they are not "bad", much of it is stat distribution. (Though they could definitely improve their play).

Here's what I have to add:

I ran their toon through Askmrrobot, which shows they have a whopping 27K Total Effective Spirit (that means adding up all spirit sources, including meta gem procs, trinket procs, etc). Now one way to look at that is "wow, that's a lot of spirit". Another way to look at it is "wow, that's a lot of wasted secondary stats that could go into their healing!" It's similar (though not identical) to a DPS who has 25% hit.

I'd recommend they at least come down to 17k Total Effective Spirit. If they did so they could gain over 16% Crit, while losing only ~2% mastery and a little intellect.

Also, they're a tailor, so I have no idea why they're using the 180 int enchant on their legendary cloak. Either the spirit or int proc is way better.

[Hypasonic]

It's always a touchy subject to approach someone and suggest they do things differently, unfortunately though it seems he does need it and should therefore take the advice. Having looked at his armory he seems to have listened to most of it at least You can always link some more logs and we can take a look at the improvements it/s (should've) made.