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  1. #1

    Fresh raiding ideas

    Hi I'm new on this forum though i played wow since bc.

    I'm really disappointed that bliz didn't announced any new mechanics for raiding in new expansion
    So i want to ask you what do you think about my ideas for new raiding expiriense and hopefully blizz will notice this thread.

    1) What if there will be raiding boss which actually will be controlled by human and not by a bunch of scripts?
    It's rather simple to create mechanic which will not allow boss to focus healers - like for boss player all the raid members will look the same or
    there will be place unreachable by boss or with great dmg deminishing which will not allow to focus specific player.
    Or it might be partial controll over boss - like boss will autocast some abilities and some of them can be targeted by a human.
    And ofcourse this human controller of the boss will earn some rewards if he wipe enemy raid long enough.

    2) What if there will be challenge mode for 10 ppl raids - several raids(or atleast 2) start dungeon, and there is last chamber which is not mondatory but includes additional loot, and only 1 raid will take it.
    So it might be decided simply - who came faster to this chamber.
    Or more interesting way - each raid will have to fight boss(which might include several mobs like arena fight in coliseum lichking) defending this chamber, and this boss is controlled by player\s from the opposite raid.

    I agree it might feel a bit too hard for pve players which used to abuse boss ai, but blizz at least can try to implement such mechanich for pvp bosses for example.(which drop pvp loot).

    So what you guys think about all this? I think that it will bring raiding to a whole new lvl of skill and entartainment.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Idea 1 has been mentioned before:

    it would end up being either
    - complete pushover because the human wants to help the raid
    - completly impossible because the human wants to wipe the raid.

    I think the stuff with human control is already active on some fights: Thok and Majordomo in Firelands for instance.

    The positioning of the raid members controls the boss' actions.

  3. #3
    The idea is a complete non starter for the reasons mentioned above. It's also probably quite annoying when you want to pull a boss and mom sent him to bed.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    The idea of fighting some random turd who will try to wipe your raid is a bad one... but I have a much better idea.

    A member of your raid, perhaps by being the one to start the encounter, is chosen to be mind controlled in some way, and forced to inhabit the body of some boss mob (doesn't matter who for the purposes of this hypothetical encounter). The player has FULL control of this mob, and all of his abilities... for as long as he continues to use those abilities. The player must use those abilities, and he must use them on the raid such that they effect and hit a certain number of players (targeted aoe has to hit at least a minimum number of players, normal attacks must continue to happen against a target that would, naturally, be his 'tank', raid-wide aoe must happen at least a certain number of times per minute, etc.), and if the player FAILS to use these abilities, then he dies, the body he was inhabiting goes berserk, and the raid promptly wipes.

    Basically an encounter where the chosen player is fighting to control the mind-invading urge to kill his comrades. If he tries to overcompensate and fight it too excessively (i.e. targeting an aoe effect somewhere where it won't hit any of his comrades), then he'll slip up and lose control. If he gives in too much (targeted aoe hits the entire raid), then he'll probably kill all of his comrades that way, too. So the controlling player has to find a balance of maintaining control while doing damage to the raid.

    Whether he's doing 'enough' damage could probably just be some power bar just for that encounter, or just the boss's energy bar or something. Maybe it constantly depletes, and can only be kept up by doing damage.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2013-11-14 at 01:12 PM.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    human controlled encounter? yay 24/7 employees

  7. #7
    Honestly, I'd like to go back to having atleast 1 true patchwork fight where it's straight tank damage and extremely tight enrage to worry about. They haven't done a true patchwork in so long.
    Last edited by absolutezeros; 2013-11-14 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Fixed "right" to "tight"

  8. #8
    They actually did mention a desire to make better/different raid mechanics, which was the big reason they're moving to 20man solid for Mythic.

    They want to be able to add fun/interesting mechanics back into the raids like Mage tanking fights, stuff like that which they can't do currently with the 10/25 setup.

    Not that I'm hoping that they just rehash old mechanics, but the fact that they want to move back into that direction is a good sign.

    I remember how cool it was having a Lock tank Leo or a Mage tanking the High King fight.

    I'm hoping that they bring a lot more of the "oddball" mechanics that change things up.

    I've actually been debating on whether or not I'm going to bother continuing with Mythic in the expansion, but if the fights improve in Mythic to a more dynamic/fun/"oddball" experience, then I probably will. If it remains the "basic" raiding mechanics as we've seen lately, I'll probably just do Normal/Heroic with friends or something.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by absolutezeros View Post
    Honestly, I'd like to go back to having atleast 1 true patchwork fight where it's straight tank damage and extremely tight enrage to worry about. They haven't done a true patchwork in so long.
    That's really no fun, to be honest. Malkorok is close to that, before him you got... uh. Garaj'al? Before that was Ultraxion, before that Baleroc... honestly most tiers get a straight DPS burn fight of some sort, but they HAVE to have some kind of other mechanic to them, otherwise it's just a training dummy.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    More stuff like this....

    Small portion of raid has to make it to a certain area to disable a boss empowerment feature by clicking zipline-type devices, jumping some platforms, while killing adds using their burst / survival CDs.

    Put pressure back on individual efforts (instead of just "save big CD for this ability"...hell even more stuff like the Teron Gorefiend minigame would be cool.
    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    Not finding-a-cock-on-your-girlfriend-is-normal level of odd, but nevertheless, still odd.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    More stuff like this....

    Small portion of raid has to make it to a certain area to disable a boss empowerment feature by clicking zipline-type devices, jumping some platforms, while killing adds using their burst / survival CDs.

    Put pressure back on individual efforts (instead of just "save big CD for this ability"...hell even more stuff like the Teron Gorefiend minigame would be cool.
    I think individual efforts are needed. And I think we'll be getting them back with straight 20man raiding.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    They actually did mention a desire to make better/different raid mechanics, which was the big reason they're moving to 20man solid for Mythic.

    They want to be able to add fun/interesting mechanics back into the raids like Mage tanking fights, stuff like that which they can't do currently with the 10/25 setup.

    Not that I'm hoping that they just rehash old mechanics, but the fact that they want to move back into that direction is a good sign.

    I remember how cool it was having a Lock tank Leo or a Mage tanking the High King fight.

    I'm hoping that they bring a lot more of the "oddball" mechanics that change things up.

    I've actually been debating on whether or not I'm going to bother continuing with Mythic in the expansion, but if the fights improve in Mythic to a more dynamic/fun/"oddball" experience, then I probably will. If it remains the "basic" raiding mechanics as we've seen lately, I'll probably just do Normal/Heroic with friends or something.
    Why exactly can't they do things like that currently in 10/25mans?

    I doubt if anything will change raid mechanics wise. It will just be whatever hp/damage reduced numbers to fit 20 rather than 25man raids.

  13. #13
    Ok i agree that creating a human controled boss is a great challenge, but it might give the most fun and entertaining boss fight ever.
    And all this
    - complete pushover because the human wants to help the raid
    - completly impossible because the human wants to wipe the raid.

    can be handled. As i mentioned 1st can be fixed if there is 2 raides which compete to each other. And 2nd issue can be fixed simply by boss mechanics which will limit possibilities of such boss. For example blizz can give ways to cc boss by some buttons in the dungeon(it will be too easy to control boss with class spells)
    1 player in each raid will fight as a boss(or ok as 1 of bosses minons) to wipe enemy raid. And which raid will be more skilled will get a bit more loot.
    It's not hard to gather 2 raids i guess, and most likely won't affect query time.

    Or they can implement pve hord vs alliens action.
    Again 2 raids in 1 dungeon and each raid might create some kind of difficulties to enemy raid. For example free some trash mobes to slow enemy raid down, or enable some traps etc.
    I'm not talking about pvp balltes in the dungeon. I mean different ways to interect between raids without direct engagements.

    Just imagine how such competition of 2 raids will look like especially on high skill lvl. It won't be just time challenge like you can see when 2 top guilds try new encounter on blizzcon at the same time. Such challenge can be part of raiding for every1 and with lots of interesting features.
    Last edited by Dargi; 2013-11-14 at 03:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Needing persons in a different ID to be the antagonist will not work, since you will also have to have someone at that same time in that encounter. If one group wipes, the other wins.. the first group has no antagonist in the 2nd try.. they have to just sit about for the next person to be available. That will be fine now since everyone is there, but in the next tier, there is noone doing that boss anymore.

    Also the thing with "you have to use some abilities at a time so you must do something" is still trivialising the encounter. Im the antagonist, and i will tell my raid to
    "Ok, gonna put the big bomb blast on our mage. Get your greater invisibility up NOW."
    "Ok, the wind blast is coming from the back of the room on the left in 3 seconds.. so all move forward."
    "be ready to cc the rogue, he's gonna get mindcontrolled in 3, 2, 1"

    I just don't see how any variation of this is gonna make an exciting encounter.
    A. Because you have to have a player from the actual raid to do it, as outlined above i dont see the 'competitive edge' work here. And certainly not when the tier becomes outdated ... or ofc, you could mean that Blizzard should spend time re-designing the encounter the moment it's no longer relevant tier. Now that is a waste of resources.
    B. A player from your own raid will always pick the best targets for abilities... (like putting the Lei Shen Static Shocks on that hunter/shadowpriest, and never the shaman/warrior)
    Last edited by mmoce02695a3d4; 2013-11-14 at 04:19 PM. Reason: typos

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Axxy View Post
    Why exactly can't they do things like that currently in 10/25mans?

    I doubt if anything will change raid mechanics wise. It will just be whatever hp/damage reduced numbers to fit 20 rather than 25man raids.
    With larger groups you're more likely to have at least one of every class than smaller groups. Thus, they can say "okay, on this fight, this classes ability is going to be necessary to down it properly" and they can safely assume that raid group would have that class available.

    Right now you have to make fights without such things, because not every 10m guild will have every class available.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by absolutezeros View Post
    Honestly, I'd like to go back to having atleast 1 true patchwork fight where it's straight tank damage and extremely tight enrage to worry about. They haven't done a true patchwork in so long.
    SoO: Norushen Heroic pre-nerf, using the zerg-tactic.

    ToT: Primordius I guess by using the zerg-tactic (only keeping 100% dmg on boss)

    MSV: Gara'jal.

  17. #17
    I'd like more encounters where the raid splits into smaller groups, but the groups do different things. Best example was Thorim in Ulduar where some people stayed in the room and others ran the gauntlet.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    it would be terribly imbalanced and may risk in favoring one raid over another (because or the one getting to control the boss have no idea how to play it or whatever), and this it will also completely screw competition and may end up creating bribing phenomena.
    it is one of those ideas extremely cool.. on paper

  19. #19
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    As someone who actually wiped to Razorgore for 3 weeks before getting a kill.

    No. Just... no. The implications of what you're asking is awful. Ambershaper was awful too.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    They actually did mention a desire to make better/different raid mechanics, which was the big reason they're moving to 20man solid for Mythic.

    They want to be able to add fun/interesting mechanics back into the raids like Mage tanking fights, stuff like that which they can't do currently with the 10/25 setup.

    Not that I'm hoping that they just rehash old mechanics, but the fact that they want to move back into that direction is a good sign.

    I remember how cool it was having a Lock tank Leo or a Mage tanking the High King fight.

    I'm hoping that they bring a lot more of the "oddball" mechanics that change things up.

    I've actually been debating on whether or not I'm going to bother continuing with Mythic in the expansion, but if the fights improve in Mythic to a more dynamic/fun/"oddball" experience, then I probably will. If it remains the "basic" raiding mechanics as we've seen lately, I'll probably just do Normal/Heroic with friends or something.
    I expect some degree of class 'role' homogenization because of these new mechanics. For example, one of the new tentative hunter talents allows their dps pets to off-tank; protection warriors get a dps option as well. Devs will be designing classes and encounter mechanics and hopefully consider how both work with each other. There are also the new stats to consider and it will be interesting to see how they interact with class abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have a nice suggestion for PvE content based on TWO raid teams (say, Horde Vs Alliance, though:

    Something like: Wow dungeon fighter (somethink like Gothik the harvester):

    You have two teams in separate cells. Maybe 5 v 5 or 10 v 10.

    -Each cell has to fight waves of adds. There could be different kinds of adds. Light; Medium; Heavy; casters; Melee; healers etc.
    -You kill one add and it has an effect on the wave in the other group. For example, if you kill X amount of light adds in 15 seconds, an additional add spawns in the opponent's cell.Or if you kill one type of add, it will cause the opponent's adds to mutate or something.
    -The waves could be limited to a set number: If both teams make it to the last wave in similar time then the tiebreaker could be an end boss
    -there could be powerups in the middle of match that have an effect on the other party, such as a gong which you click on that debuffs a random opposing team member (cc or some other vulnerability), but also debuffs the user at some point.

    Winner is the team that does not wipe; or clears the end boss faster.

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