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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Gerryz's Avatar
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    What are the 2 BiS Rings for 5.4 Normal?

    Simply as the title says, which are the 2 BiS rings for this patch on Normal?

    I have the Kil'ruks Band of Ascendancy so far.


    Thanks

  2. #2
    The Patient Alvarie's Avatar
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    The BiS normal rings are the same as heroic, The Reality riper from Norushen and the Energy ring from Malkorak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Looking forward to correct it with your advanced, groundbreaking theorycraft.

  3. #3
    Band of Ascendency is better than the Reality Ripper because of the red socket, not sure why you think it's BiS.
    Last edited by semlar; 2013-11-15 at 12:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by semlar View Post
    Band of Ascendency is better than the Reality Ripper because of the red socket, not sure why you think it's BiS.
    Band of Ascendancy has Haste / Mastery, while Reality Ripper has Hit / Crit. Crit being our most desirable secondary stat, and Mastery being our least desirable stat. I do believe it has been simmed in BiS gear by somebody smarter than me, proving that the little crit you gain by Band of Ascendancy's socket bonus is not gonna outweigh all the crit we get from Reality Ripper.

    I do hope I am correct on this one.

  5. #5
    For Beast Mastery all 3 of our secondary stats are extremely close in value and reforging everything into crit would provide lower damage than keeping them in balance.

    The above profile is also a great example of why hit should be avoided on gear because they can't reforge out of it enough to stay at the cap, not only wasting the 60 crit socket bonus but upwards of .75% of another secondary stat worth of hit rating.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by semlar View Post
    Band of Ascendency is better than the Reality Ripper because of the red socket, not sure why you think it's BiS.
    Correct. Both the bis list from this site and EJ confirm this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by semlar View Post
    For Beast Mastery all 3 of our secondary stats are extremely close in value and reforging everything into crit would provide lower damage than keeping them in balance.

    The above profile is also a great example of why hit should be avoided on gear because they can't reforge out of it enough to stay at the cap, not only wasting the 60 crit socket bonus but upwards of .75% of another secondary stat worth of hit rating.
    I do see your point, but when he is swapping to SV to optimize his dps, Reality Ripper would be the better choice due to the crit, I believe.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by semlar View Post
    Band of Ascendency is better than the Reality Ripper because of the red socket, not sure why you think it's BiS.
    that make you reforge into hit tho, so whats the point? or even worse gem into hit or using enchants with hit on it.

    numbers should be run also for both spec, i dont think there is 1 hunter just playing 1 spec. i cant imagine how you can do spoils as bm, specially in a 10 man. not to mention immersus and few others.

    if you raid 25 man you can probably get away with it.

    another thing you have to look at is where you get reallity ripper ring and band of ascendency. hint: not everyone have killed paragons of klaxi yet.

  9. #9
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    AMR has Reality Ripper as BiS, and not Band of Ascendancy. I believe more in AMR than EJ, since EJ is outdated as **** for us hunters atleast.

  10. #10
    EJ hasn't been relevant for like a year.

  11. #11
    malk/norushen

    need that crit baby

  12. #12
    Reality Ripper sims higher than Ascendancy for me but the difference is practically negligible.

    I'd say it depends more on the rest of your gear and how much/where all the Hit comes from.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Trictagon's Avatar
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    The way you should look at items that have hit or expertise on them is as follows:
    (If you actually benefit from the hit/exp):
    Treat the hit or expertise as if it were your second best secondary stat

    Example: say you are doing crit>haste>mastery, treat reality ripper ring as if it were crit haste.

    Short explanation of why this works:
    You will (almost) always end up having crit on every piece of gear, whether it be reforging to it or it already being on the item. If you are below hit cap, you will end up losing haste to gain this hit on a piece of gear. Or in the other situation, you are reforging the extra hit to haste.

    Lets say you have a total of 10,000 hit+expertise+haste, 2550 will always be reserved for hit, and 2550 will always be reserved for expertise. This leaves you with 4900 leftover, which will be left over as haste. Increasing this total number (10,000) to say 11,000, will result in a gain of 1,000 haste regardless of if it was gained with hit, haste, or expertise on items.

    This is all void if you are over cap and unable to drop to it.

    TL;DR: if you are doing crit>haste>mastery, hit=haste=expertise for effective stat weights when comparing items.

    (This works for all priorities, a>b>c where hit=b=expertise)
    Last edited by Trictagon; 2013-11-16 at 12:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trictagon View Post
    The way you should look at items that have hit or expertise on them is as follows:
    (If you actually benefit from the hit/exp):
    Treat the hit or expertise as if it were your second best secondary stat

    Example: say you are doing crit>haste>mastery, treat reality ripper ring as if it were crit haste.

    Short explanation of why this works:
    You will (almost) always end up having crit on every piece of gear, whether it be reforging to it or it already being on the item. If you are below hit cap, you will end up losing haste to gain this hit on a piece of gear. Or in the other situation, you are reforging the extra hit to haste.

    Lets say you have a total of 10,000 hit+expertise+haste, 2550 will always be reserved for hit, and 2550 will always be reserved for expertise. This leaves you with 4900 leftover, which will be left over as haste. Increasing this total number (10,000) to say 11,000, will result in a gain of 1,000 haste regardless of if it was gained with hit, haste, or expertise on items.

    This is all void if you are over cap and unable to drop to it.

    TL;DR: if you are doing crit>haste>mastery, hit=haste=expertise for effective stat weights when comparing items.

    (This works for all priorities, a>b>c where hit=b=expertise)
    thing is currently with our gear we need the hit expertise because almost no other piece have them. bracers from malkorok are BiS as well, not only because the crit is because the expertise.

    hit and expertise should be treated as its, u need to cap it no matter what and they are far better than any other 2ndry stat.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiz View Post
    AMR has Reality Ripper as BiS, and not Band of Ascendancy. I believe more in AMR than EJ, since EJ is outdated as **** for us hunters atleast.
    Seriously dude? It sounds like you are using default weights in AMR, and just trust that to be correct. I shouldn't have to explain why that is a huge mistake.

    Ring of Restless Energy from Malkorok and Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy from Klaxxi are BiS. Ironically this is what AMR is telling me, but I use custom weights based on what femaledwarf and simcraft is telling me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    that make you reforge into hit tho, so whats the point?
    The goal is always to have as little hit/expertise as possible on your gear set. This allows you to get very close to the cap with minimal waste when reforging. Hit/expertise should at the highest, be valued equal to your worst secondary stat.
    Last edited by Beace; 2013-11-16 at 11:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Trictagon's Avatar
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    You don't seem to understand my post Perrito, please read it again. You always will cap hit and expertise, obviously. My post explains why a crit haste item is the same as a crit expertise item. Your logic matches the old MaxDPS.com logic which says our bis items are hit and expertise, and gemmed with blue hit gems, since hit and expertise are weighed so highly. This is wrong due to our ability to reforge and ability to reach cap regardless.
    Last edited by Trictagon; 2013-11-16 at 11:30 PM.

  17. #17
    Why are you guys arguing about the ring having hit?

    That ring is the only item to have hit in BiS gear.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trictagon View Post
    You don't seem to understand my post Perrito, please read it again. You always will cap hit and expertise, obviously. My post explains why a crit haste item is the same as a crit expertise item. Your logic matches the MaxDPS.com logic which says our bis items are hit and expertise, and gemmed with blue hit gems, since hit and expertise are weighed so highly. This is wrong due to our ability to reforge and ability to reach cap regardless.
    it dosnt aply to this tier, because we have Little to no hit or expertise, reason why the rings bracers and few ítems that have hit and expertise on it are BiS.

    the other thing to take into consideration is where the ítems come from, for a RED socket gain and less than 10 dps i wont say assendancy is close to BiS, sure you gain a red socket and 60 crit, with reality ripper you can gem for agi hit (that u need to do otherwise) and still gain a lot more dps than what you would gain with the other option.

    most ppl say OMG BIS but they never aply this

    agi>hit=Exp>crit>haste>mastery, this mean you will gain agi over hit and expertise and you will always run under hit and expertise caps to maximize your damage. im still wainting to see why ppl come here and say that EJ has a post where assendancy is better than reality ripper. the crit you gain with that red socket will make you lose even more of other 2ndry stats in order to cap or even get close to it. im always exp and hit caped because i rather take the dps loss and not have more RNG, missing a kill shot that would otherwise kill and add will make you look more like a fool than doing 20 dps less.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Trictagon's Avatar
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    I give up on trying to make you understand, Perrito. You either did not read my post or are incapable of understanding it. I am not saying to go below hit or expertise caps. BiS rings this tier are malkorok and norushen rings. If there were crit haste bracers this tier, they would be equal to crit expertise bracers. If there was a crit haste ring, it would be equal to the crit hit ring.
    Read this if you haven't yet:
    Lets say you have a total of 10,000 hit+expertise+haste, 2550 will always be reserved for hit, and 2550 will always be reserved for expertise. This leaves you with 4900 leftover, which will be left over as haste. Increasing this total number (10,000) to say 11,000, will result in a gain of 1,000 haste regardless of if it was gained with hit, haste, or expertise on items.
    Nowhere did I say "do not cap hit or expertise, these are useless stats." In fact I said you should always reach these caps.
    Last edited by Trictagon; 2013-11-16 at 11:55 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Trictagon View Post
    I give up on trying to make you understand, Perrito. You either did not read my post or are incapable of understanding it. I am not saying to go below hit or expertise caps. BiS rings this tier are malkorok and norushen rings. If there were crit haste bracers this tier, they would be equal to crit expertise bracers. If there was a crit haste ring, it would be equal to the crit hit ring.
    Read this if you haven't yet:

    Nowhere did I say "do not cap hit or expertise, these are useless stats." In fact I said you should always reach these caps.
    you are making it look like hit is equal value as haste wich isnt the case.

    the case in this tier is that hit and expertise are something "you need" because Little to no pieces have those stats. so reallity ripper ring hit is 100% used. assing EP value to an ítem and calculate it like that. in the case of reality ripper ring the ep value is high because the hit is something you will use 100%.

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