The new stat system and how it will honestly be AMAZING

[Mysterymask]

yes but avoidance only basically takes 1% off AOE damage..so basically the fire wont hurt AS bad

[melodramocracy]

yes that is true my idea is that stacking certain stats may completely change the rotation and be more dynamic ..its a bit more possible now that we don't have to deal with hit and expertise on gear

Removal of hit and expertise have nothing to do with this really. You'll have less control over how your character turns out at any given ilvl than you had before, especially with the strip down of enchants and gems that is in the works. Nevermind the whole 'armor magically tailors itself to whatever spec you are' angle. Are you a healer? Do you want to be spirit heavy? Too bad, so sad. You'll take some crit, and like it.

While hit and expertise's biggest problem was that they were ever a reachable hard cap to begin with, I don't see how anyone can be enthused about less possible variance in stats. Tertiary's aren't going to be stackable to any truly significant amount, as it would break pvp and Blizzard knows this (being able to stack run speed or lifesteal, for example).

But by all means, lets ignore the dumbing down of armor, and instead rail on endlessly about flying mounts. This population never fails to entertain.

[Mysterymask]

yeah the spirit heavy thing will be a bit of a strange thing to deal with but people will probably figure it out..honestly as far as that goes I see them changing haste crit or mastery as the new spirit (depending on class) and the other 2 will be more for throughput but right now that's more of a wait and see thing at this point

[blackblade]

..of course since this is Warcraft and these are numbers. As such theorycrafters will go in and find a definite RIGHT answer that will do more then the other styles but this allows people to experiment maybe in Mythic Raids certain styles may be better for certain fights and they have to switch accordingly but it gives stats are more meaningful impact and makes it so although there will always be a definitely best option ever there will be other right answers too and no real wrong

There are specs in the game that have priorities based on play-style instead of "DO EXACTLY THIS FOR THE BIGGEST NUMBERS".

Go look at the Demonology Spec theorycrafting threads, for an -off the top of my head- example. Brewmasters (Haste? personal preference. Crit/Mastery? personal preference with Mastery being better for high incoming damage, and crit being better for AoE/Avoidance), and healers are also pretty valid examples (Spirit? as much as you think you'll need to not go OOM over the fight. Haste? As much as you can get to hit a breakpoint. Everything else should probably just go into crit/mastery depending on class/spec)

I think it's fine if some classes highly value some stats over others, too. (IE Ret pallies and haste.) that keeps some interesting decisions in the gearing process. (Do I pass this to the warrior, and wait for something with more haste on it?)

[Bashkar]

What worries me is I play the agility based tanks, druids and monks. They are based a great deal on dodge and parry, how will this be balanced back to viablity?

They really haven't talked at all about class / spec mechanics, though I'd anticipate that they're leaning even further into active mitigation over passive mitigation.

Tanks lose all four MOP tanking stats, giving a lot more room to focus on combat stats. Can give a bit more room for dynamic gearing, like focusing on haste for resource generation. Primary tanking stat will be +armor, IIRC, we're still minus three stats to worry about.

[Verain]

So I was thinking about how they removed Dodge, Parry, Hit, and expertise from gear and reading a few posts from the doomsayers and honestly I don't think it will be that bad....

I haven't read a single post from anyone who thinks removing these stats is a bad idea.

Personally I think it may be the start of something that Blizz has been experimenting with in Mists...multiple viable stat builds.

No, I think it's to reduce player power. I don't think the other shoe has dropped on gearing yet.

In case you didn't know Brewmaster Monks are kind of unique as they have 3 viable stat builds

Want an easier rotation? Focus on Haste!
Want to do more damage? Focus on Crit!
Want to survive against really big hits? Focus on Mastery!

Tanks actually normally have some choice. DPS have plenty of interesting choices- for instance, a mutilate rogue could reforge one way for better aoe damage, another way for better overall damage, and a third way for a lot of extra dispatch (execute) damage. So, for instance, on Garrosh, I choose my spec and reforge for the top single target dispatch damage, to make P3 as short as possible.


This is going away with reforging. With enchants and gems getting weaker, I guess, it becomes even worse. You are a slave to the gear that drops.

As such all though you will have gear that will change based on your spec (agi->int etc) the secondary stats should remain the same so multiple gear sets will probably be necessary for the people who seriously play 2 or more specs but not for the normal people

Gear should basically come in the following flavors

Haste/Crit, Haste/Mastery, Crit/Mastery, HUGE amounts of Crit, HUGE amounts of Mastery, or HUGE amounts of Haste

This will not happen, guaranteed. You will have a diverse number of stats, some bad, some good, and you will have very little influence over them. If your spec needs, say, haste, and haste doesn't drop, you're just fucked.


And the worst part about this is tertiary stats.

Lifesteal -> This one could be fine. But note when a lifesteal piece drops, you want to loot it to someone who is normally dps.
Cleave -> This is the worst one. Only some fights are multitarget for dps, but all are for healers. Leather drops with cleave on it. Do you loot it to the rogue? For him it helps fan, which does no damage, may or may not help deadly poison (maybe the ticks cleave?), and whatever. Or give it to the resto druid who it helps ALL THE TIME. Or the feral, who uses an aoe move as part of his single target rotation, so if ferals and rogues are balanced correctly on patchwerk a couple cleave pieces will put the cat in front and do nothing for the rogue. Or that's the same character, and he can also tank and ranged dps.
Dura -> This one is good. They should all be like this.
Avoidance -> "Everyone put on your avoidance sets". "2: BigGuildGM: BigGuild is recruiting! Need a melee with 10% avoidance." -> Your best mdps leaves because you looted him that gear. This stat sucks.

Everything we've heard about gearing sucks. There's no way this is the end of it. But one thing they need to do is fix this tertiary junk.

- - - Updated - - -

yes but avoidance only basically takes 1% off AOE damage..so basically the fire wont hurt AS bad

Blizzard will balance the fights around the gear available. Top guilds will keep running the content and have multiple sets of the top gear for each thing. The rest of us won't have access to that. The fights come out and they will, for instance, deal enough fire damage to oom everyone and one shot players who get there in the same item level, but the guilds that have poached from other sources or ran multiple times or did whatever will have the 10% avoidance set needed to win. You will not. Etc.

THE FIGHTS WILL BE DESIGNED AROUND THE GEAR AVAILABLE

If someone built a 12% avoidance set, you can bet the boss will poop enough fire to deal with that. And if your mythic guild and two other mythic guilds stack enough gear on people, they'll be poached by a top 50 guild who can't maintain their gearing but needs them for certain content. It'll be Nax40 all over again.

[Grubjuice]

What worries me is I play the agility based tanks, druids and monks. They are based a great deal on dodge and parry, how will this be balanced back to viablity?

your agility tanks already do not have even one point of dodge or parry on their armor!


the mechanic of dodging attacks is not going away,
you will still use Elusive Brew or Savage Defense to dodge,

the mechanic of parrying attacks is not going away,
you will still parry attacks via Shuffle.

crit will increase Elusive Brew and Rage generation
haste will increase Chi and Rage generation
(increased Chi allows for both closer to 100% Shuffle uptime, more Purifying Brew usage)
(increased rage allows for both closer to 100% Savage Defense uptime and more Frenzied Regeneration usage )

[stormgust]

It's not just crit/haste/mastery/spirit, but there also seems to be a stat called readiness according to some blizzcon screens. So I'd guess, that there'll be amplify/multistrike and cleave.

[Grum88]

What worries me is I play the agility based tanks, druids and monks. They are based a great deal on dodge and parry, how will this be balanced back to viablity?

Probably a passive or something to do with the new leveling upgrades to skills.

[Grubjuice]

Probably a passive or something to do with the new leveling upgrades to skills.

see my comment two posts above, Dodge rating is going away but the ability to dodge will still be there, same for the ability to parry vis-a-vis parry rating

[Deleted]

The only thing that bothers me is that you won't be able to reforge to haste caps anymore.

Not to sure about the tertiary stats too. They should be really rare.

[nyctre10]

dodge and parry will still be baked into tank classes. the plan i guess to have abilities do "after using X ability you have an X chance of increase dodge or parry"

why would they do that? have you seen agi leather? there is no dodge/parry on them to begin with so removing the stat from the items won't affect you in any way the stat remains in the game, guys..you can still dodge/parry, you still get dodge from agi and you still get parry from strength...nobody stacks dodge/parry anyway...everyone goes for crit/haste/mastery

so...yeah, there's nothing to discuss regarding that stacking one stat, on the other hand will be much harder since you can't reforge anymore and you will therefore have to wait for that chest piece with crit on it like in the old days(and current days too since people still do that to min-max but it's less important)

[Traveler Voltin]

why would they do that? have you seen agi leather? there is no dodge/parry on them to begin with so removing the stat from the items won't affect you in any way the stat remains in the game, guys..you can still dodge/parry, you still get dodge from agi and you still get parry from strength...nobody stacks dodge/parry anyway...everyone goes for crit/haste/mastery

so...yeah, there's nothing to discuss regarding that stacking one stat, on the other hand will be much harder since you can't reforge anymore and you will therefore have to wait for that chest piece with crit on it like in the old days(and current days too since people still do that to min-max but it's less important)

monks do this. blackout kick(or something) increases parry(or was it dodge) by X amount while in brewmaster spec

[Grubjuice]

why would they do that?

I think you misunderstand him
what he is saying that abilities like Elusive Brew and Savage Defense and Shuffle and Shield Block will be preserved and may even be expanded.

[Mysterymask]

Well yeah you do have to wait on the chest piece with crit on it but you know...there's less gear now that drops

Instead of a boss dropping an agi leather piece with crit and mastery and an int leather piece with Haste and crit...now they will simply drop 2 leather pieces one with crit/mastery and one with Haste/Crit ..only problem may be more competition but generally most guilds will figure it out (They generally do)

[Faroth]

The problem to me is you can play all 3 variations you listed haste/crit/mastery focused and they can all do the job and tank well enough, some might feel a little more stable, others better with certain healers, etc. but all feel about the same for a raid group.

Then a bunch of theory crafters will number crunch, explain how one way is the only right way, and suddenly everyone will follow those guides as gospel and venomously spout that every other tanking method is the wrong way to do it and those players are retard noobs who need to learn to play.

I feel like drawing back the curtain and showing the math, letting theorycrafters have at it, and players following the guides they put out, has killed the soul of MMORPGs in a lot of ways.

If 10 players took the "wrong" spec and "wrong" group make up and still cleared the raid content, did they do it wrong? Sadly, many players would still say yes.

[-aiko-]

What worries me is I play the agility based tanks, druids and monks. They are based a great deal on dodge and parry, how will this be balanced back to viablity?

Dodge and parry still exist just not as stats on gear. So I would assume that Druids/Monks will innately have a lot of dodge/parry. This change just means that you can focus on other, more interesting stats when you are gearing up.

[Dristereau]

Unless they change anything I can only see me going for Mastery and some Life Steal on Blood DK. If it has Sturdiness instead of an actual stat I'll avoid that like the plague.

[Tyraena]

...haste gives them a more busty option ...

Tell me more, tell me more.

[Mysterymask]

Tell me more, tell me more.

....thank you for that ...in other news the blood elf mage population in Moon Guard have drastically increased and now they are stacking haste...not to mention getting breast implants is now called "Stacking Haste"