I do wonder if people wanting ascendance gone and 100% sustained dps like in cata actually played seriously then? It was horrific on some fights. There was no advantage. You were terrible for certain roles because you had no CD's, you couldn't make a difficult part of the fight noticeably shorter because you had no CD's. You were just constant same dps. You gained no advantage on short fights, etc.
i think ascendance is just fine the way it is
Everything that is, is alive.
Agaor - Enhancement Shaman
Having classes with such powerful cooldowns to stack means the balance blizzard is trying to maintain between classes' performance goes through a roller-coaster every new tier, because as fights get shorter, these certain classes start outperforming the 7 others by a mile. Try uploading a random enhancement shaman from wowprogress top 10 simDPS (pref. with primal fire elemental) into simcraft, sim him at 450 seconds, then sim him again at 250 seconds (currently roughly the average time good guilds kill Iron Juggernaut). Try doing this with again with a class that doesn't have as powerful CD's to stack, like a death knight or a warrior, and you'll quickly see a pattern. While you're at it, check the amount of damage the enhancement shaman is doing in the pull and what his average sustained DPS throughout the rest of the fight is.
My choice of wording when I wrote "mediocre" might not be exact, in fact enhancement isn't really as low as a lot of other classes even solely on sustained DPS, but I do think you're underestimating the damage contribution from CD stacking in the pull of a fight.
This being said, I don't wish to derail this thread any further.
if some guild is killing boss in 250 sec i dont think thaye care how many shamans or other clases they have in raid cose prabobly they have that boss on farm for long long time ;P things you are talking about matters really on progres and i never heard about guild that would stack shamans(ora any other class in that metter) for their burst so i dont really se the problem you are talking about
Actually a lot of guilds had to stack mages on heroic spine of deathwing specifically for their burst.
If given the option to have my dps being super consistent and never really affected by uptime, downtime, or killtime
having my dps flexible and allowing it to excel on shorter fights due to high burst on the pull, make extremely difficult "burn phases" shorter by holding cooldowns for those, or scaling extremely well due to dps enhancing gear growth synergizing with big cooldowns, then I will always take the latter.
I raided in cata when we were the epitome of consistency, having the burst is substantially more helpful in a raiding environment and a much more engaging and dynamic playstyle IMO.
I can also understand that your opinion/preference is for less, or even no burst. I disagree with that, as I believe burst mechanics make fights more interesting. Sitting there going through a rotation, doing the same dps every fight gets boring. To each his own, though.
And once again the discussion has shifted to a burst Vs. no burst non-sense.
Nobody is saying Blizz need to remove enha/ele burst entirely, some of us are saying they need to tone it down. That's it. We don't need to do 4x our sustained DPS in a 15sec window, a 15/20% buff would be more than enough, especially taking into account that some of the lost burst would be baked into our sustained DPS.
The result would be more consistent specs that don't revolve entirely around those 15 secs every 3 min.
The playstyle, the class design - they're both awesome. I love enhancement, and I love ascendance (although some new skin-glyphs would be cool). But if the previously mentioned synergy, through some minor changes in mechanics, got toned down, and the downtime DPS between turreting got toned up, I'd love it equally, if not more.
Would be nice to instead have a cd that double (or whatever number is balanced) our damage for up to 15 seconds, and then you get a debuff making you deal half damage for up to 15 seconds also being unable to enter that "form" again. The cooldown would be equal to the time spent in the form.
That way we'd have burst when we wanted, but still being cd-less if one prefer that. :P
I know the gripe here is mainly enh (despite the fact that enh has literally never been in a better place), but I sure remember a time when ele shaman wasn't a 3 minute burst class.
They were a nothing. They didn't matter. Their damage was atrocious on single target. Their cleave niche could be filled by some melee fairly easily. They were basically totem bots.
Now... well ele still sucks in the grand scheme of things, but the niche is much more defined. Incredible 3 minute CD single target and/or cleave burst with some low spike damage in between as well as a lot of healing (HTT, AG) and damage (stormlash, spell haste) utility.
Enhance relies way too much on Asc cd to kill anything in PvP. Get CCd and you lose your window. Get 15 sec of freedom and you rape almost anything. Such a terrible design
Also on a side note, we need a PvP and PvE thread, half the posts talk about pve while the other pvp
Time is on our side
Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*
I like ascendance. You hit so hard by just throwing LvB, it is one of my favorite burst.
I think Ascendence is fine for Resto Shaman. It used to be that we had next to zero powerful CDs, and that was really painful for hardmode raiding. Perhaps for Elem it needs to be toned down a little, and DPS upped a bit when out of Ascendence.