When WoD launches with no flying and nothing changes, will you admit being wrong?

[bewsh]

Hey guys for 6.0 we are going to have to control the way you interact with the game to give you a better gaming experience. 2 months later of course we don't care how you interact with your environment so you can have flying back. I know, I know it sounds like an arbitrary punishment for buying and playing the game at launch but the reason we are doing this is to arbitrarily punish you for buying and playing the game at launch even though EQII and wildstar will be out at the same time.

Have fun playing EQII, Wildstar, TES online, and whatever else you'd like.

I'm sure you're right, and just like Aion, Rift, Terra, and TOR there will be a mass exodus leaving noone around to kill those 50 fel boars.

[DeadmanWalking]

At that point they'll be sitting in cities waiting for the LFR queue.

They will be waiting in PVP Arena and battlefield queues.

[Pann]

He is not telling people what they want.
He is telling people what other people want and explains to the first group why they decided to agree with the other people.

They are not giving either side what they want. This is a barrier to gate content and only the approach differs from how they did the same at the beginning MOP with the seemingly endless stream of dailies.

You remind me of this thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ur-WALLETS-ext
We've seen that "voting with the wallet" translates into me fighting over a CE before they are all gone.

I am not sure how you reach the conclusion that people voting with their wallets would have any impact on you ability to purchase the CE.

[Halicia]

I'm sure you're right, and just like Aion, Rift, Terra, and TOR there will be a mass exodus leaving noone around to kill those 50 fel boars.

ah, ok. that explains why there's been noone on my server since cata. thx.

oh wait, were you being sarcastic ?

[Kelimbror]

Imagine if Arenanet introduced flying in GW2. Would completely ruin the point of exploration, jumping puzzles etc.

Different games. Different ideologies. Different gameplay. Irrelevant comment.

[Louis CK]

Better arguments to battle something that isn't done for a good reason and with a good argument anyway? Ha-ha-ha.

Bashiok has actually made a very good argument as to the reasoning behind it. If you've got a better one, then you should really work on getting it on paper so they can see your point of view. If there's a better argument against it than the one he's made for it, they'll most likely look into changing it.

But so far, from what I've seen on MMOC and some of the Blizzard forums, no argument has come close to being a reasonable objection.

[Yarathir]

Bashiok has actually made a very good argument as to the reasoning behind it. If you've got a better one, then you should really work on getting it on paper so they can see your point of view. If there's a better argument against it than the one he's made for it, they'll most likely look into changing it.

But so far, from what I've seen on MMOC and some of the Blizzard forums, no argument has come close to being a reasonable objection.

Yeah, haha, no.



That's all I can say.

[But I Hate You All]

Nothing will change

Because sub loss -> people say "oh it's Asians who quit for XYZ reasons! completely nothing to do with me! WoW is fine!"

Pretty much this. Also this is the calm before the storm when WOD hits there will be a shit storm over Item squish and no flying. Either way I won't be buying mop till i have flying

[DeadmanWalking]

Bolded text: They actually have explained this. They're changing max level world content as we currently know it into something more dynamic, something resembling TI, but on a broader scale. I believe they want to have people on the ground to interact and enjoy this content, in much the same way flight was disabled on IoT and TI (which, if you remember correctly, is still at max level).

Underline text: As noted in my response to your bolded text, they want you to" explore the game as designed" with the new setup they're rolling out for max level players. And since that "makes sense and is more enjoyable than cataclysm" to you, I believe we're now on the same page.

It seems they're attempting to give a more dynamic feel to the max level world than we've seen previously (one reason I'm so excited about WoD) and they want us to take the opportunity to enjoy it. It might help if you look at it like this: Leveling up, you're okay with ground mounts. So consider it an extension of the leveling process, but at max level.

Think of it as one big IoT/TI type setup (hopefully with improvements/new and fresh ideas), but throughout Draenor, and soon you'll even be able to fly in it.

Hope this helps

TI is crap. I finished everything in an hour a day for 18 days. TI was better because I had to work for the rep and the valor to get the valor gear. Then they said they didn't want people getting gear in lfr and not using it because Valor gear was better. Then they put eternal burdens in the game which are the same as the valor gear that replaced lfr gear in the past but this time you can get it from killing a frog instead of building up rep for it for weeks. End game content should not last just 18 days when there are 6-9 months until the next expansion. I only go to timeless for Ordos on tuesdays and then I am done with it.

But if the design is to be dynamic like TI and you need to be ground based to control how we interact with the dynamic content then why does it not need to be controlled 2 months later? Still haven't answered the question. Combat swoop ganking? Why is it okay to reinstall swoop ganking 2 months later? Bigger world? Why is it okay to make the world seem smaller 2 months later? More immersion? Why is it okay to not be immersed 2 months later? More danger? Why is it okay to have less danger 2 months later? Why 2 months? Why not 6 months? Or ever? The reason is fine, the arbitrary time limit is not.

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Bashiok has actually made a very good argument as to the reasoning behind it. If you've got a better one, then you should really work on getting it on paper so they can see your point of view. If there's a better argument against it than the one he's made for it, they'll most likely look into changing it.

But so far, from what I've seen on MMOC and some of the Blizzard forums, no argument has come close to being a reasonable objection.

Bashiok gave a reason for the grounding, not a reason why the grounding is lifted 2 months later. If its suppose to make something better then why 2 months later does it not need to be better? Youcan continue to spin your wheels and dig in without answering the question but it won't change the fact that I don't consider riding a ground mount some where as actual content or fun. I don't go to amusement parks to remember the drive there, I go to ride rollercoasters and eat cotton candy. The ride there sucks. I'm not interested at all in the ride there or standing in the line to buy my entry ticket.

[dacoolist]

Yeah boys, an girls: no flying mounts makes it easier for us PVPer's to gank you, camp you, and make you quit wow, and make forum posts on MMO-C that you're quitting (I do enjoy them with my morning COFFEE).

I'm happy for no flying mounts. Get ready to die.

RHUUUUDEEEEE BWOOOOYYYYYYY

[mvaliz]

Just putting the question out there.

When WoD comes out with flying restricted until 6.1 and a tight-knit server community DOESN'T spontaneously form, when nobody talks, when nobody really gives a shit, when it's still just a bunch of people collecting bear asses in silence or else idling at the bank waiting for queues to pop, will you admit that you were wrong?

Will you admit that restricting flying didn't really accomplish a damned thing?

Speak for yourself.

If I play, I'm going to be embracing more community, meeting people, assisting others in the zone chats and having an awesome adventure.

...if you think your adventure consists of collecting Bear Asses in a race to get to level-cap as quickly as possible, I seriously have to ask why you bother even playing a video game?

[Spicycurry]

I dont get what the fuss is about. I use FP to get to places since im too lazy to fly my own mount anyway

[Yarathir]

TI is crap. I finished everything in an hour a day for 18 days. TI was better because I had to work for the rep and the valor to get the valor gear. Then they said they didn't want people getting gear in lfr and not using it because Valor gear was better. Then they put eternal burdens in the game which are the same as the valor gear that replaced lfr gear in the past but this time you can get it from killing a frog instead of building up rep for it for weeks. End game content should not last just 18 days when there are 6-9 months until the next expansion. I only go to timeless for Ordos on tuesdays and then I am done with it.

But if the design is to be dynamic like TI and you need to be ground based to control how we interact with the dynamic content then why does it not need to be controlled 2 months later? Still haven't answered the question. Combat swoop ganking? Why is it okay to reinstall swoop ganking 2 months later? Bigger world? Why is it okay to make the world seem smaller 2 months later? More immersion? Why is it okay to not be immersed 2 months later? More danger? Why is it okay to have less danger 2 months later? Why 2 months? Why not 6 months? Or ever? The reason is fine, the arbitrary time limit is not.

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Bashiok gave a reason for the grounding, not a reason why the grounding is lifted 2 months later. If its suppose to make something better then why 2 months later does it not need to be better? Youcan continue to spin your wheels and dig in without answering the question but it won't change the fact that I don't consider riding a ground mount some where as actual content or fun. I don't go to amusement parks to remember the drive there, I go to ride rollercoasters and eat cotton candy. The ride there sucks. I'm not interested at all in the ride there or standing in the line to buy my entry ticket.

Personally, I think Bashiok's replies were almost the exact same arguments people use and spam here all the time, and which are also debunked all the time. Just with a little extra prose fluffed in between.



Unless I just so happened to coincidentally miss the heavenly reply that is supposed to sate both sides.

[mvaliz]

Yeah boys, an girls: no flying mounts makes it easier for us PVPer's to gank you, camp you, and make you quit wow, and make forum posts on MMO-C that you're quitting (I do enjoy them with my morning COFFEE).

I'm happy for no flying mounts. Get ready to die.

RHUUUUDEEEEE BWOOOOYYYYYYY

Why do people keep talking like flying mounts are being completely eliminated? It's only, at best, a 1-2 month delay after most people hit level cap - and that's as if taxi services don't exist or anything...

[Louis CK]

Yeah, haha, no.



That's all I can say.

And as long as that's "all you can say" you'll be looking at no flight until 6.1.

I was attempting to help your cause with reasonable information, and suggesting you come up with the same to give them a reason to change it.

You're not hurting me with your lack of valid arguments, so it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Best of luck to you

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Personally, I think Bashiok's replies were almost the exact same arguments people use and spam here all the time, and which are also debunked all the time. Just with a little extra prose fluffed in between.



Unless I just so happened to coincidentally miss the heavenly reply that is supposed to sate both sides.

Again, saying it's "debunked" doesn't make it so. Calling it "a bad idea" doesn't make it so.

If you want to see it change, give a good argument besides "I don't like it."

Again, their reasoning for doing it is stronger than any reason the opposition has given.

[Yarathir]

And as long as that's "all you can say" you'll be looking at no flight until 6.1.

I was attempting to help your cause with reasonable information, and suggesting you come up with the same to give them a reason to change it.

You're not hurting me with your lack of valid arguments, so it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Best of luck to you

You think they are reasonable arguments with a good basis, I find them copy-pasted forum and MMO-C garbage arguments that are debunked daily here.



So I don't really think it's much of a help, because I don't think I need a valid argument against something that is done without a logical reason in the first place.

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And as long as that's "all you can say" you'll be looking at no flight until 6.1.

I was attempting to help your cause with reasonable information, and suggesting you come up with the same to give them a reason to change it.

You're not hurting me with your lack of valid arguments, so it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Best of luck to you

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Again, saying it's "debunked" doesn't make it so. Calling it "a bad idea" doesn't make it so.

If you want to see it change, give a good argument besides "I don't like it."

Again, their reasoning for doing it is stronger than any reason the opposition has given.

"I don't like it" is what was the core of just about any anti-flying argument? And just because you don't think they were debunked does not mean you're right. A lot of people use the basic spit'n'recycle spamguments on the forums daily, and people reply with valid counter-arguments daily. The fact that you say there has been no valid counter-argument says more about you than it does me.



Mainly that you're probably not really open to considering them at all, and that you'll likely dismiss them on the spot with some hyperbole or some slippery slope fallacies.

[Arteous]

Will you admit that restricting flying didn't really accomplish a damned thing?

actually if the crybabies follow through and cancel their accounts due to no flying then it accomplished one thing. It gave me a few months of enjoyment out of the game without having to put up with casual wrath babies crying about something since they won't be online.

[DeadmanWalking]

Why do people keep talking like flying mounts are being completely eliminated? It's only, at best, a 1-2 month delay after most people hit level cap - and that's as if taxi services don't exist or anything...

And they can't be attacked and you can alt tab out to netflix or go take a poop in complete safety without ever seeing an inch of what the world looks like. So much for immersion and danger. At least on a flight mount I have to interact with it and I have been attacked by birds over half hill.

[chrisnumbers]

25 man raids in Cataclysm would like a word with you...

About what? What relevance does Cataclysm Raiding have to flying next expansion?

And anyway, I'm not talking about attempting to predict an outcome. I'm talking about the reason people complain in the first place before they experience what it is they're complaining about.

[Deleted]

Imagine if Arenanet introduced flying in GW2. Would completely ruin the point of exploration, jumping puzzles etc.

GW2 allows you to instantly warp to about 12+ different points (about 3 times as many FPs as there are per WoW zone) at any time.

And yet people explore GW2's world because there's a reason to, because it's well designed, because the mobs aren't tedious fucking annoyances like they are in WoW. Oh, and you don't run at the pace of a fucking sloth. So there's that too.

People like me don't like travelling in WoW because it's *tedious*. There's no enjoyment to be had from it for me, so the less of it I have to do the better. All stopping me flying is going to accomplish is that I will not move from the city unless I absolutely have to. You can't force people to explore your world if they don't want to.