[WW] Raiding

[ryan11d7]

Hey guys. I currently returned to the game after taking a long absence after doing HDS at the end of Cata. I am a long time player, roughly 7 years. Throughout those 7 years I have mained a healer the whole time. This time around I am looking to dps. However, I am having a little trouble on clearly seeing viable options.

I would prefer to melee DPS (Yes I know MDps generally is unfriendly in encounters and usually in 10M only 1-2 melee are brought.) However I am leaning between leveling my WW monk or Rogue. Now i find both classes fun to play. However, after doing a tad of research and reading it seems alot of WW are getting sat in Heroic content due to their lack of utility and lack of flavor brought to a certain group that most groups would want out of their MDPS slot. So my question is...In your unbaised opinion, would i be hindering myself In playing a WW monk due to their lack of utility and CDS brought. Would I be better of helping a raid group by being a rogue or say, a warlock for example?

[Babylonius]

It really all comes down to how good you are at whatever class. This far into the raid, will you have the time to level, gear up, and get into a group doing heroics? If not then it doesn't really matter since there will be class changes. If yes, then it should be far enough into the tier that the groups just getting to heroics are not the ones sitting players due to class.

The guilds doing that are sitting their WW are generally the cutting edge guilds looking for any advantage. Anyone getting sat is likely not because of their utility and lack of flavor, its probably bc of another reason that they might be unaware or in denial of.

Personally WW allows you to tank or heal so overall the Monk brings more utility than a Rogue or Warlock. It is hard to compare 1 Monk spec to 3 Rogue specs or 3 Warlock specs.

Play what you prefer and find a place that will take you for what you are.

[Aitir]

If you are worried that you are going to get benched just perform so well and out do everyone else's expectations and make it impossible for them to sit you, understand how to use your personal cool downs and best time to use the different talents.

[ryan11d7]

That is understandable enough. But not even when it comes to just losing a raid spot. I don't want to hinder my own abilities by playing something that really is buried under the sand currently at the moment. I want to be able to my skill to maximum potential.

[Chauling]

As mentioned in the other post, WW monks CAN bring a lot of healing into the raid. And at this point, I wouldn't start making decisions about class utility. They're most likely making a lot of changes in the coming expansion. Since the release of MoP, I don't think there's been a raiding patch where WW monks have had somewhat a large overhaul. Wouldn't be surprised if they're going to make some major adjustments in 6.0.
Overall, go with the class you enjoy playing the most. The class you enjoy playing the most is most likely also going to be the class you've put the most time into and therefore get the highest DPS.

[Totaltotemic]

If you want a fun class with a very high skillcap capable of doing crazy things that no one else can, Monk is it. If you want to press 3 buttons and be automatically brought to every raid to top meters and laugh as you never die, play a Rogue. If you want to feel like Conan play a Warrior. If you like a simple rotation and pressing one button to turn your raid into god-mode healing or damage for 8 seconds, play an Enhancement Shaman. If you really like shiny lights targeting raid members a lot to use your utility, go with a Ret Pally. If you just want to Death Grip everything play a DK. If you really like that sense of being the minority that no one really cares about, play a Feral Druid .


Seriously though, at this point in the expansion what class you are doesn't matter for raiding if you're thinking about starting an entirely new one. Windwalker's high skillcap means you will not perform as well as a Rogue while you're still figuring it out, that's pretty much a fact. However, since you're in this forum, you must think it's at least somewhat fun, and going into an expansion where no one knows what balance will be like renders balance concerns kind of moot. Windwalkers may not have a button that says "raid gets 20% more awesome for x seconds" on a 3 minute cooldown, but there's still a lot of utility there if you can find it and know how to use it. I also personally believe that people perform better when playing specs they enjoy instead of what they feel forced to play, so there's that.

[Maelstrom51]

If you want a fun class with a very high skillcap capable of doing crazy things that no one else can, Monk is it. If you want to press 3 buttons and be automatically brought to every raid to top meters and laugh as you never die, play a Rogue.

Assassination isn't the top rogue spec anymore, and the other two specs are easily as "high skill cap" as WW monks. What you said about rogue survivability is true enough, though - they're pretty much unkillable in raids.

[Totaltotemic]

Assassination isn't the top rogue spec anymore, and the other two specs are easily as "high skill cap" as WW monks. What you said about rogue survivability is true enough, though - they're pretty much unkillable in raids.

Wasn't talking about Assa, and I don't know why you'd mention "the other two" considering Sub hasn't been played in raids (check Raidbots.com's data samples where Sub has fewer entries than Arms Warriors, Frost Mages, and UH DKs) besides the weird HAT and Hemo periods in the history of WoW. I could tell you all about TEB and compare that to Bandit's Guile and the relative skill requirements, but I think I'll limit that conversation to people that actually play Monks.

[Maelstrom51]

Wasn't talking about Assa, and I don't know why you'd mention "the other two" considering Sub hasn't been played in raids besides the weird HAT and Hemo periods in the history of WoW. I could tell you all about TEB and compare that to Bandit's Guile and the relative skill requirements, but I think I'll limit that conversation to people that actually play Monks.

If you think that sub isn't played in raids, you are wildly behind the times. Sub is currently the best spec where single target damage is important and positioning isn't an issue. Most top rogues are now combat with sub off spec.

[Jyggalag]

Affliction warlocks have insane dps end game with dot snapshotting and a high skill cap, much higher than WW monk. However I do believe that devs have stated that affliction is too OP and are wanting to redesign the entire class (again) for WoD.

[jazzyy]

Affliction warlocks have insane dps end game with dot snapshotting and a high skill cap, much higher than WW monk. However I do believe that devs have stated that affliction is too OP and are wanting to redesign the entire class (again) for WoD.

Although this may be true (I don't know I haven't played an Affliction warlock), in WoD it's been confirmed DoT snapshotting is being removed and Warlocks are being changed in numerous ways

With DoT snapshotting being removed any real "skill cap" that any DoT class had is now gone for the most part. Though I don't really consider reapplying DoTs when your trinket procs skill, I guess people consider it as much.

[unlightable]

You will be sat 100% of time as WW and 0 times as rogue. Lol.

Skill cap is not a thing if you are not that top 1% of players who strives to be best.
And if you are, good news is you can still get to WoL tops as WW even having 0 HM gear, that is impossible/super-hard as a rogue.
If you just want to have fun while not being gimped too much - either choice is good enough.

[Frogged]

So my question is...In your unbaised opinion, would i be hindering myself In playing a WW monk due to their lack of utility and CDS brought.

Yes. However, if you have more fun playing Windwalker and it's worth the loss of being a more 'perfect' spec, then go for it.

[Juliansfist]

I doubt you'd be able to rank as a WW anymore without heroic gear. Well maybe if the heroic geared windwalkers aren't doing the early normal fights any more could leave space open for rankings.

As for affliction locks and skill cap - multi DoT snapshotting isn't hard and is the only time where an otherwise simple and slow class feels any pressure.

[rijn dael]

I play WW for 7 of the 9 heroic fights we kill atm. I tank or heal dark shaman and heal on malkorok (and possibly thok when we get to it).

I guess we aren't exactly cutting edge progression - but so long as you aren't in the mindset of "I only play dps", I haven't found it problematic. If you only want to ever dps, play a pure spec, but to me it is a bonus no matter what the raid needs, I can do it - I don't like sitting out, and pure melee get the short end of the stick there.

As to ranking, I guess that is true - there isn't too much competition in 10m. My monk is my alt raiding char, still using normal mh flex oh etc, and I routinely get ~#100 ranks. In 25m, I would be nowhere near that.

[wakii]

this might be the wrong post for my questions but I didnt want to create a new one for two simple questions

I spent a bit time into my offspecc (WW) and wonder a few things:

1. 20 stacks of TEB but no AGI proc (excluding dancing steel). Should I wait to a big AGI Proc or should I go with dancing steel proc?
2. Im sitting at 9k haste and use chi brew combined with RSK on cooldown, Im still heavy engery starving and cant use abilities on gcd should I stack more haste or do I simple have an error in my rotation?

thanks for your thoughts

[Deleted]

this might be the wrong post for my questions but I didnt want to create a new one for two simple questions

I spent a bit time into my offspecc (WW) and wonder a few things:

1. 20 stacks of TEB but no AGI proc (excluding dancing steel). Should I wait to a big AGI Proc or should I go with dancing steel proc?
2. Im sitting at 9k haste and use chi brew combined with RSK on cooldown, Im still heavy engery starving and cant use abilities on gcd should I stack more haste or do I simple have an error in my rotation?

thanks for your thoughts

1: If you have 10 stacks+ of TEB you should use it regardless of trinkets/proccs. If you get trinket proccs, use whatever TEB-stacks you have, regardless if its 10 or not.

2: Wether or not you have flaws in you rotation is hard to say without any consecutive information (logs e.t.c). But how much haste you feel you can use is completely personal. I'm rolling 11.5k+ and I can still get energy-starved, but at that point EB usually fixes that. Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...�aver/advanced

[Totaltotemic]

1: If you have 10 stacks+ of TEB you should use it regardless of trinkets/proccs. If you get trinket proccs, use whatever TEB-stacks you have, regardless if its 10 or not.

There's really no reason to use TEB just because you have 10 stacks at the moment, you can only gain by waiting and fishing for procs. Past 19 though you start actually losing stacks so it has to be used there.

Of course that's not counting time until phase change, adds, end of fight, etc that might make you want the damage instantly rather than waiting (for instance, blowing all available stacks 10 seconds before an IJ siege mode because TEB during that entire phase is really wasted by the knockbacks), but barring something that says "I should use this right now" like a fight mechanic or a trinket proc there's no reason to stop banking it. Weird things like 3 RPPM procs in a row do happen.

[kamuimac]

I

The guilds doing that are sitting their WW are generally the cutting edge guilds looking for any advantage. Anyone getting sat is likely not because of their utility and lack of flavor, its probably bc of another reason that they might be unaware or in denial of.

if a guild has 2 melee dps and 1 free slot and one of those is WW he will be usually sat out for progress fight if they are doing very similiar dps - and if u are denying it then u are the one in denial (im talking 10 hc ofc) - will u honestly take WW instead for example warrior if they both did same dps ? like honestly ?

[Nephenthos]

im currently in a 10 HC raiding guild and almost every fight im in.

i would recommend u getting a tank offspec. as alot of people alrdy said, its the player that makes a class good or not. yes WW monk lacks a little in utility but even in a 10 man heroic guild they choose me alot above others for my deeps. also WW monk haz sick Cleave Deeps this patch. i thought monks would have a similar playstyle as Rogues but DAMN was i wrong @ the start of MoP. its alot more fun than rogues