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  1. #1

    Paragons Normal 10m - Help

    worldoflogs. com /reports/rt-rzv117qxpgyuavtc/

    First time post after lurking for a long time, seeking some advice for our guild that is brickwall stuck against paragons.

    We're running Tanks: Prot Warrior, Prot Paladin; Healers: Resto Shaman, Holy Pally; DPS: Arcane Mage (myself), Enhance Shaman, Elemental Shaman, Survival Hunter, Destro Lock, and Assassination Rogue.

    We kill Hisek the swarmkeeper, than Rik’kal the Dissector, then (and here's where we fall apart) Koven (we'd proceed with the typical order if we could get past this).

    We lust at the beginning and usually destroy the first two before lust is over (if things don't go wrong) and then stumble on Koven. We had a couple attempts where our pally try to solo heal it and just try to steam roll through the bosses, but due to our main tanks not being able to mitigate injection, would fall behind to parasites owning the raid.

    Everyone except the hunter (who is filling in for a MIA DPS atm) is well enough geared for this fight and I don't under why we're not making any progress (other than tank failures). I'm thinking some of the other players might not be playing at their optimal performances. Logs are provided at the very top! So any help is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    killing rik'kal first followed by skeer helped out guild a ton, as mediocre guilds can have a LOT of issues with handling the parasites because most people are bad

    I'd say hold lust for korven the prime or xaril the poisoned mind as they're the only real issues

    big issues-
    you have melee are standing in front of Korven and getting hit by his vicious assault (this is when he shield bashes the tank to stun your tank and then does an aoe cleaving swipes in front of him)
    specifically: orgrimm (enhance) and Ellutha (rogue), (also your resto shaman to a lesser extent)

    parasites KILLING EVERYBODY

    make sure your tanks aren't picking up mobs that they have debuffs that stop them from picking that boss up

    your warrior tanks are getting dropped, make sure your tanks know when to use their cooldowns and make sure healers are trying to keep them topped off

    people standing in GIANT YELLOW POOLS OF AMBER for so long that they actually die to them

    medium issues-
    people should dodge whirling it's not that hard, he faces a direction for a few seconds, then goes that way

    killing bloods (they're stunnable and slowable, but knockbacks do not work)



    as far as later on, just kill make sure you
    -kill the kunchongs as soon as someone gets mesmerized
    -don't stand in fire lines in between people
    -respond to each of xaril's catalysts correctly


    also important note, you either need dps to swap quick to korven's amber or you need to dps 2 of the mobs down, w/ the one that you don't want to kill slightly lowed than the other
    Last edited by ryklin; 2013-11-16 at 12:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Hi there,

    First of all I wonder your kill order; http://evrelia.com/paragons-of-the-klaxxi-guide/ is where I direct you to.
    What we always do is Kill the Dissector first, this way you get rid of the Parasites & an injection at the same time. If your dps is high enough they should be able to burn it down with timewarp before the first two bloods reach it (remember to stun/root them if needed), if they reach it after the Dissector gets killed no harm is done cause the other two get healed to 100% anyway. After that we burn down Bloodseeker while killing the two bloods as well, this gets the heal out of the way and some high tank damage. After that we kill the Swarmkeeper, so actually our third target is for some reason your first target. Remember tho that as soon as the swarmkeeper gets close to 50% he will become an amber which you need to be nuked asap by the dps, a /target amber macro can help you with that. Same goes for when you kill the fourth target Korven himself.

    The fight seems really overwelming at first but is fairly easy as you keep the following things in mind:

    * The Aim; have 2-3 people move into the line (watch the timers closely so you know when it's about to come).
    * Spread out for the stun & don't stand in any poison stuff on the ground (Avoid it really, it does HUGE damage)
    * Spread out on the fiery lines (the bigger the better) and use cooldowns for it if needed, also don't forget about personal cooldowns such as iceblock/cold snap/healthstones etc
    * Anyone with the blue debuff (just watch when the debuffs come active, Xaril engages them) should stack preferable with someone with a yellow debuff
    * In the later phase of the fight make sure to damage the hungry kunchongs when they actively target a raid member (only 30% damage on the kunchong is needed)
    * Make sure to mark the tanks so the melee has an easy time not to die cause of the cleave mechanics from the bosses.

    I wouldn't advice to solo heal it - two healers should be fine at this fight. Your dps should be aware not to cleave here but instead use single target dps cause the others get healed to full anyway when 1 of them dies. Your dps however should step it up a bit, it seems a bit low. You can compare your own logs with ours of this week;

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/8b1ndiirm8i3nna3/
    Last edited by Spartex; 2013-11-16 at 01:18 AM.
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  4. #4
    I think a big part of the problem is your strategy. If you're leaving Rik'kal and Skeer up that long, you're losing a lot of DPS and control to the Parasites and to the Bloods. I highly recommend the kill order of:

    Rik’kal the Dissector,
    Skeer the Bloodseeker,
    Hisek the Swarmkeeper,
    Korven the Prime,
    Xaril the Poisoned Mind,
    Kaz’tik the Manipulator,
    Iyyokuk the Lucid,
    Ka’roz the Locust,
    Kil’ruk the Wind-Reaver,

    as suggested above. It does mean that you have to deal with two Ambers from Korven, one while you are killing Hisek, and one while you are killing Korven himself. If you struggle with this, you may need to try to kill Korven as soon as he comes down. Save your DPS cooldowns for the first Amber, and use Heroism/Bloodlust at around 55-60% on Korven to have it active during the second Amber- this is what my guild did during progression.


    The things that other people have said are sound-- do not stand in the amber puddles on the ground, slow, root, stun, and kill the bloods (unless you can burn down your target before they reach him), make sure to swap to any Ambers that Korven places on your primary target, and make sure that the tank tanking Rik'kal is rolling active mitigation until Rik'kal is dead- you have two block tanks, this shouldn't be an issue.

  5. #5
    As others have said, the biggest issue is that your priority order is not optimal. There is little reason to kill Hisek first, most guilds save him until 3 or 4. Aim is a fairly easy mechanic, 3-4 people in the line is all it takes for the damage to be negligible. Assign either melee to always get in the line and be closest to the boss. On the other hand, you as a mage, should always be able to position yourself in the line closest to the person that is being targeted. Make sure you have at least 2 other players standing in the line, but not stacked, between you and the melee. As a mage, you can take Greater Invisibility and use it to soak Aim if you're targeted without anyone even needing to get in the line.

    Burning Rikkal -> Skeer with heroism up is definitely the way to go. After that, either Korven or Hisek, depending on whether your raid is better at handling Aim or the Amber. Kill Xaril 5th as soon as he jumps down, and from there on its pretty faceroll.

    Little side note from a mage perspective: Your bomb uptime is fairly low. Most attempts you're sitting at 50%-65%, whereas it should be 90%+. This is a great way to boost your DPS since higher uptime will mean more damage from the bomb as well as more time that you're doing 10% extra damage to the boss with other spells. There are a number of great add-ons to keep track of this.

  6. #6
    Our guild Blows up rikkal before he gets a parasite out, which is a great way to start.

    We are better at handling bloods than aim, so we kill hisek second, korven third, and skeer 4th.

    the way we do it lines up so bloods and amber come out at around the same time if we don't slow dps on korven, so we get him aroudn 60, wait for bloods, kill them, push korven and hero to blow him up.

    After korvens dead, the only other issue we've had is the manipulator, other than that the rest are pretty trivail for us

  7. #7
    Good advice from others and I agree with them that your kill order does not seem optimal.
    We went with the evrelia kill order to start with and adjusted it to our strengths.
    So we do Ri'kal > Skeer > Korven > Hisek >Xaril > Kaz'tik > Ikkokuk > Ka'roz > Kil'ruk
    We lust at the start to get rid of Ri'kal.
    We find aim is an easy mechanic to deal with and as we are unable to nuke the amber down in time, we use the 2 mob approach for Korven. Bring Hisek to 60%, bring Korven to 60%. Push Hisek under 50% so he gets ambered and then nuke Korven.
    The only other really difficult boss we found is Kaz'tik. If people do not switch quickly to the Kungchong, you can easily lose the mesmerised player. Also the Mature Kungchong can quickly rape non-tanks, so you need to be on your toes for that.
    It's a complex fight, but once you know what each boss does, it's quite a fun fight.

  8. #8
    Why can't your warrior mitigate the Injection? If he can't it won't get ugly until the 3rd or 4th one if all go through. Which is easily enough time to burn Rikkal down at the beginning, if your DPS isn't enough to nuke him without bloods getting there that are slowed+stunned, I'd suggest killing them.

    Killing Hisek is really stupid until at least after Rikkal+Skeer are dead in my opinion, also. 1.4M damage is a joke to soak with more than 1 person in the aim line+personals/externals.

    Rikkal
    Skeer

    Hisek to 60%, bring Korven to 60%. Push Hisek under 50% so he gets ambered and then nuke Korven.
    What's so hard about nuking the Amber? /targetexact Amber into your main ability GG.

    Korven to 50>amber>dead
    Hisek
    Xaril
    Iyyokuk
    Kaztik
    Kilruk
    Karoz

    I guess that can be dynamic between Hisek and Skeer on normal depending on what you're better at doing, I just think bloods are annoying. Maybe you can kill Kaztik instead of Iyyokuk first since lines are a joke on 10N.
    Rabsies
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  9. #9
    We do bloodseeker -> swarmkeeper -> prime -> dissector -> poisonus mind -> manipulator -> locust -> lucid -> wind reaver

    Reason is unless your tank goes AFK during the fight dissector is a joke, but you need it down for xaril, so you get more margin for error.

    Lust on prime, second pot on xaril, loot. That's about as easy as it can get.

  10. #10
    If you're feeling adventurous and want to significantly lower the time it takes to kill some of them get your tank to pick up the buff that gives you the ability to turn into a scorpion, the abilities scale with AP (i.e. Vengeance) and can do hilarious burst damage. Probably safest to pop a Shield Wall like CD and get an external later if needed if you are tanking one that will sit on you for the duration.
    Only make passive aggressive posts when it doesn't make you look like a dumbass.

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  11. #11
    We do it a bit differently.

    Warrior tanks Rik'kal for the whole fight, at side out way. Keeps active mitigation up whole time so never get parasites.
    If warrior can do this, you now only need to deal with 2 Paragons at a time as Rik'kal effectively does nothing. We also had dps DK go tank and do this when warrior couldn't make it.

    Our order is Skeer - root bloods, kill if can't
    Hisek
    Korven - bloodlust between 60 and 50% health, switch to amber and nuke it then finish Korven. Blooddlust isn't necessary here but its the only dps check in the fight - start is not a problem so, yes, bloodlust lines up with your cooldowns and meter looks better, but if struggling with Korven, use bloodlust just before amber, have all ready to switch (make macro's to auto target it)

    After Korven we kill Ka'roz - it just make the rest of the fight easier with no puddles around the room. While he is up, all stay one side of the crystal, when he throws down the amber puddles, whole raid move to other side of crystal.

    Iyyokuk - no idea how to spell that - will be kept alive - when get beams on people spread apart

    Xaril - his ability is not as bad it sounds. 2 people get each debuff but not all activate - only one colour

    Kaz'tik comes next - people need to NOT stand near the Kunchongs cause if they get fixated there is no time to deal with it. What we do is stack in middle, need to spread for red beams and come back, then when someone is fixated all switch to the Kunchong. Priests can Life Grip the fixated guy - not sure if anything else works.

    After Kaz'tik its pretty much done - We usually kill Iyyokuk to lose the red beams but you can kill Rik'kal if Tank is stressed - we found ours felt it was quite easy to keep Active Mitigation up all fight once got hang of it.

  12. #12
    Our kill order is Hisek> Skeer > Korven > Ri'kal >Xaril > Kaz'tik > Ikkokuk > Ka'roz > Kil'ruk. And as mentioned above, the tank tanking Ri'kal need to keep an eye on DBM and keep active mitigation(Don't know how good pala or warrior is for that) up when he does his stuff. Also when Korven goes into amber nuke it down ASAP. If you hero at the start, you get Hisek down before the first aim(tho it ain't a difficult mechanic). With Kaz'tik, DPS need to be ready to burn down the kunchong, Leap of Faith has failed sometimes for us.
    Lastly the buffs, that the bosses drop. On progress we were a bit behind with dps and thats why we kill Hisek first, his buff is 15% damage taken to the target, so just 1 ranged dps should pick it up and keep it on cooldown.
    Once you get past the first 4 bosses it gets really really easy.
    GL

  13. #13
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    We blow up Rikal with all cds except lust even before the parasites spawn, then Skeer, Korven and then Hisek. Don't know what we kill after that, but we lust as soon as the manipulator is attackable, killing him before one of us is controlled.

    Oh and we dont even bother to loot their corpses to gain their abilities
    Last edited by dopefishz; 2013-11-20 at 11:36 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Adsertif View Post
    What's so hard about nuking the Amber? /targetexact Amber into your main ability GG.
    Yeah. We only attempted it twice iirc, and could not get it down. I think it was because of a lack of target switching to the amber, so will be trying this again tomorrow so that lust can be kept for Kaz'tik as this seems more problematic - again a target switching issue, and being more melee heavy than I like.

    Quote Originally Posted by silvanobi View Post
    Warrior tanks Rik'kal for the whole fight, at side out way.
    How do you handle Korven in this situation as his Shield Bash/Vicious Assault requires a tank swap ? I guess he just taunts it over but stays on Rik'kal ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dopefishz View Post
    we lust as soon as the manipulator is attackable, killing him before one of us is controlled.
    Going to do this on our next raid as we find this to be the harder one to sort, though we have killed Paragons twice now.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by xerty View Post
    How do you handle Korven in this situation as his Shield Bash/Vicious Assault requires a tank swap ? I guess he just taunts it over but stays on Rik'kal ?
    There is no need to swap big CD for the first, externals the second. Should never cast a third if you are lusting.

    I (as monk) fort brew the 1st, guard the 2nd, and get a pain sup for the second too. Don't even dip below ~60% HP

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    As other mentioned the strategy is flawed so ill just leave our kill order here too in case you find it useful.

    BL
    --> Rik’kal
    --> (ignore the first 2 bloods if needed) Skeer the Bloodseeker
    --> Korven to 50% while cleaving/doting Hisek
    --> Hisek (when Koven casts shield)
    --> Korven to 50% while cleaving/doting Xaril
    --> Xaril (when Koven casts shield)
    --> Kaz’tik to 50%
    --> Korven
    --> Iyyokuk
    --> Kaz’tik
    --> Ka’roz
    --> Kil’ruk

  17. #17
    Personally, I think using Heroism on Kaz'tik is kind of a waste, there are other times in the fight where it is a lot more useful. For example, on the pull, so you can blow up Rikkal and Skeer without having to worry about switching to bloods. If you're having trouble getting the amber down, use it when Korven is at 60% or even when Xaril jumps down 5th, as his abilities can be annoying.

    The adds that MC have 7M HP, and you only need to do 30% (2.1M) to break them out. Just make sure everyone is close to the middle before MC goes out, and it should not be a problem as long as at least 2 of your DPS switch. A good trick here is having a player, preferably a tank, pick up the buff from Korven that is basically a targetable Ice Block. When someone gets MC, use it on them and they'll be stuck in place for 5 seconds, more than enough time for everyone else to break them out. When you use Heroism probably isn't going to make or break the fight, but I just feel like there are more efficient times to use it than on Kaz'tik.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    There is no need to swap big CD for the first, externals the second. Should never cast a third if you are lusting.

    I (as monk) fort brew the 1st, guard the 2nd, and get a pain sup for the second too. Don't even dip below ~60% HP
    Interesting. Thanks for the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebs View Post
    Personally, I think using Heroism on Kaz'tik is kind of a waste, there are other times in the fight where it is a lot more useful. For example, on the pull, so you can blow up Rikkal and Skeer without having to worry about switching to bloods. If you're having trouble getting the amber down, use it when Korven is at 60% or even when Xaril jumps down 5th, as his abilities can be annoying.

    The adds that MC have 7M HP, and you only need to do 30% (2.1M) to break them out. Just make sure everyone is close to the middle before MC goes out, and it should not be a problem as long as at least 2 of your DPS switch. A good trick here is having a player, preferably a tank, pick up the buff from Korven that is basically a targetable Ice Block. When someone gets MC, use it on them and they'll be stuck in place for 5 seconds, more than enough time for everyone else to break them out. When you use Heroism probably isn't going to make or break the fight, but I just feel like there are more efficient times to use it than on Kaz'tik.
    Yeah. Lusting in this fight is not a make or break for the fight, it's just a nice bonus that you can use on whatever your group finds more beneficial.
    I really don't know why my team mates seem so unable to switch to the kungchong at times. Though we also have issues with people calling out when they are mesmerised. Stacking in the middle may be worth a try.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Thanks in part to all the posts here our first night on paragons was a two pull kill.

    Thanks everyone.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Gratz.
    Happy wiping on Garrosh now
    He's a bitch.

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