WoD Warrior Lvl 100 Talent (Alternatives)

[orville078]

As everyone knows warrior lvl 100 talents are out, where they are viable and interesting, I am not entirely thrilled with them. Given that this is a lore-driven expansion with heroes from the past I think it would be awesome to have one talent that relates to some [B]warriors[B] from the past, with these talents also being able to cater more towards a personality for your warrior.

Mind you these are really just concepts and things I thought of, no thought as to how this would balance with other classes has really been taken into account, but I'll try to be realistic!

For example:

Hellscream's Fury

Damage done to you and allies around you infuriates you, every X amount of damage adds a stack of fury. Each stack of fury decreases damage dealt to you by X% and increases damage by X%, stacks are capped at 20. At 20 stacks fury can be released for a thundering strike that ignores all of the opponents armor and deals X% weapon damage plus X damage. (I was thinking of specifically Thrall and Grom's battle with Mannoroth and how seeing Thrall get tossed aside pissed him off and allowed him to wreck Mannoroth).

Kargath's Depravity

Permanently remove one of your hands following the sadistic ritual of Kargath Bladefist and replace it permanently (hand would grow back with re-spec? =D or attach a blade to your hand somehow that makes this viable.) This blade will scale with your gear's item levels and stats will obviously reflect this spec and be optimal for it, although choosing this would lock you in as either fury or sword and board.

The sight of the massive blade on your arm frightens enemies and weakens their blows reducing damage done to you by X% and there is a chance on hit to either impale or give them a gash that bleeds for X damage per second.

Doomhammer's Audacity

You choose to study the strategy of the brilliant tactician Orgrim Doomhammer and are able to incite your allies to victory by manipulating the battleground to your benefit. Constant buff that gives allies increased attack speed, health, attack power - not sure.

Ambush/Choke Point, you select and area of the battlefield for you and your allies to strike, while fighting in this area you and your allies gain the strategic advantage increasing damage, attack speed, and causes a minor slowing effect to enemies.

Yes, I realize that is a lot, but mind you this would be a sort of AoE and these effects would only work inside the area, they are not permanent, would alst for a short amount of time and the effects wouldn't be insane, because you are getting 3 buffs at once. Remember to take this with a grain of salt its just a concept, although I personally really like this one, because it allows warriors to take more of a role as leader on the battlefield - which I believe warriors are.

I unfortunately don't know which Alliance characters would be good to substitute for the Horde names or if maybe there could be entirely different mechanics based solely on the Alliance warriors like Lothar, Varian Wrynn, or Danath Trollbane (just a few I know). Once again these are just concepts to throw around, I have a few more ideas and will add them later if people seem interested in this idea.

I would appreciate constructive feedback!

[Valech]

Stuff

I aprecciate the work you put into this. However, I want to point out a few things I have in thought. First of all, the first two talents are the same. You get less damage and deal more damage. The one works thru stacks, the other one is passive. Since I like the stackidea more, I would cut the kargath talent. Would also solve the problem with the re-growing hand
Now to Hellscream´s Fury. What would keep you from maintaining those stacks all the time? Especially for Prots it would be far more intersting to have their damage taken reduced then channeling all stacks into a big attack. I would like something along these lines more: Everytime you or an allied player within 8 yards receives x damage, you gain a stack of Vigor. Whenever you gain a stack of vigor, the damage to you and within 8 yards of you is reduced by 1%. For each stack of vigor you gain 0,5% crit. Stacks up to 10. You can release your Vigor into a channeled blow, dealing x damage for each stack.
You could think of enlarging the radius. This system would have the benefit, that is as well rewards gaining anew stack (you cant gain at 10 stacks, so you would have to release to maintain the reduced damage) and benefits as well from keeping the stacks. In times of high raid damage the stacks would add up fairly quick, and after the high damage phase is over, you either keep your buff for a while or release the vigor to enable new stacks.

Now, Doomhammer´s Audacity. First I liked the thought, but then I thought that it is just like another Skullbanner with diffrent buffs. indeed I would like to see something like the current Ravager talent. I love placeable abilities and a stationary hurling weapon is great.

Finally, what could be a good replacement for the Kargath talent? Perhaps something like this [Insert famous warriorname here]´s Versatility:
Enhances all of your stances.
Battle Stance: Critical Wild Strikes and Slams now enrage you
Berserkerstance: Autohits won´t generate rage anymore. However, the amount of rage generated through received damage is tripled.
Deffstance: Increases your movementspeed by 5% and reflects 5% of the damage received to your opponent.

[orville078]

Very good points Valech, now that I have laid out the concepts I can sort of elaborate on where I was going with this.

For Hellscream's Fury the stacks could potentially have an effect where you experience the effects for a duration and then they slowly fade away if they are not used, and then the effect may not occur again for X amount of time. Also, with regards to the charged/stacked attack, it could be used after 10 stacks, but optimal damage would obviously be achieved with more stacks. I think the mechanics of building the stacks would need to take longer too, in a raid fight you would hit a full stack in about 5 seconds or less, so it would either need a higher cap on damage needed for one stack, can't gain a stack for 5-10 secs, or it can only be gained by people being damaged within 8 yards.

I like your idea with vigor and would like to further expand on that, by making it difficult for players to choose either to drop the stacks with a channeled strike, or experience a balanced fury state where you get optimal buffs for a period of time by "controlling your rage", maybe this could include increased damage on key special abilities like CS, Exec, or MS/BT. Definitely liking the increased crit idea, although reduced damage could be an interesting mechanic to make this more viable for tanks.

Regarding the Kargath talent, I still think it could work, especially for tanks, because it would be a constant damage reduction and you aren't necessarily gaining a damage increase buff - you are gaining a new weapon. Part of the reason I like this option is one, you get a giant blade on your arm and that would just look beast, also this definitely creates a different mindset for the player, they are not just a generic warrior - I am really sick and twisted, I cut off my own hand! The benefits of this could be changed obviously, but I still really like this as a good passive option.

Doomhammer I like a lot, but yeah it is very similar to the banners, ideally you would gain three abilities allowing you to give temporary buffs to allies like increased attack speed, lifesteal, cleave, etc. I realized though, 3 new abilities for 1 talent is not likely to happen, this talent is a bit more conceptual than something that I foresee happening - I feel like warriors utility is limited to their dps and tanking, making them somewhat of a commander that gives temporary buffs in battle (further than DS, BS, CS) to create a support/dps role - just to change things up a bit.

Thank you for the constructive feedback, great ideas and points!

Edit: Randomly had "with" typed in the bottom, and bolded stuff so its easy to see which talents are being talked about.

[Strafir]

I managed to write a whole essay worth of stuff as a response so i'll try to keep it more concise this time.

I realize and fully understand that some people want to create these really cliche abilities with massive amounts of symbolism, but the thing is that warriors are currently really really FINE. Fury has always been a very interactive spec where you smash buttons like bloody murder and the spec works really really well when you manage to get your crit up. I can't recall a moment where protection was as comfortable and fun to play as it is today. If I really got as I wanted, Arms and Fury would finally be intentionally cut and separated as one PVP spec and one PVE spec to never have to deal with issues that this balance-everything-bullshit brings with it.

The removal of hit and expertise definitely affects this class the most especially during the beginning the an expansion where you can barely afford getting those caps and are left with barely any crit. Hopefully yellow damage will just be toned down and the class gets to keep its unique and functioning feel it has today.

I personally want the t100 talents to be as simple as possible because what we need is more quality-of-life adjustments instead of more crap to track.

A talent that improves your old stances - the PVE'ers choice
To make berserker stance feel more berserky, add a life steal component that you generate back an x amount of health with all attacks since this is the stance you soak damage in for more rage in short surges. To make battle stance feel more like a balanced combat stance, increase your passive movement speed by 10% and and lower the global cooldown to 1s so we can actually use the increased amounts of rage we get from the removal of hit and expertise. Let shield slam and revenge generate the same amount of rage they do in all stances, but grant the gladiator stance shield barrier to shield slam damage bonus in in battle stance, without the threat modifier.

A talent which bumps rage and gets rid of disorients, polymorphs and roots at the cost of health - the PVP'ers choice
A way to generate rage against teams that are capable of dealing damage while running faster than you, and break the cycle of sitting in CC for 95% of games. I have no comments on whether or not the damage taken should be taken all at once or as a running dot. Perhaps even a way you could deal friendly damage and get someone else out of a sheep?

A gimmick talent that reflects Doomham..Karg..Hellscr... whateverthefuck with cool visuals - The casuals choice
Granting a cheesy spell like Bladestorm that is there to please the growds who just want to play for the sake of killing time, and look super cool in the process.

I really really don't want to log into another beta and realize that EVERYTHING has changed completely for the uptinth time. Keep it simple, don't push hard to understand abilities on people who couldn't care less.

[ericcrazy]

Good idea but too long and complicated it needs to be allot more simple

[orville078]

I have been enjoying playing as a warrior on the PTR recently, I would agree that they are fine, although I am not putting these out here due to something I see wrong with warriors - rather just giving them a bit of a different flavor, while making them viable in different scenarios. I understand the desire for simplicity, although I don't feel like these abilities I listed off are that complicated, one is a stackable buff based on damage that has a stack bonus attack, one is a passive weapon, and the last is and AoE buff. I am a bit divided on whether or not to have 3 talents based on being solely PvP, PvE, or casual; I feel like solid choices with each having clear benefits, but being viable for all scenarios is the best option. I think you should have to stare at all 3 for a while and decide which one you like based not on just the utility it provides, but also how it shapes your play style per scenario.

Improved stances or just an overall passive increase for some of our abilities would be nice, I am seeing that with druids lvl 100 talents for example, and just wondering why not warriors? Definitely would like to see something with a passive increase to the stance as a whole and make some abilities cost less rage, do more damage, or maybe cost no rage every 15-20 secs.

One thing I think that would be interesting would be for a nice passive like the one Strafir mentioned above, but also a component where if you have a full rage bar you get X bonus temporarily for being capped out on rage. This could be a bonus for all three talents and maybe it is changed by each, like a lifesteal, cleave, etc. As you can see, I am literally throwing ideas out there at this point, just so we can get discussion going, in a nutshell warrior talents (where we realize are most-likely just placeholders) are not quite what we are wanting.

Hellscream's fury could maybe be changed to offer increased movement speed and crit%, when you hit full stacks you get to get out of any CD or for X amount of time you are immune to any form of CD, this would be nice for PvP since warriors are pretty easy to kite. My original idea would work for PvE and PvP, but not as much in the capacity of mobility.

The more I look at it Kargath's is really more of a PvE option, although it could be used in PvP if they were able to make fury a decent option in the next expac.

Doomhammer talent could be used in about any encounter, being that it is providing your raid, your team, or yourself with a set of buffs.

Appreciating the discussion, hope we can keep this going, I am loving all the ideas everyone is throwing out there.

[Lysah]

Hellscream
Buff all allies in an area around you. Dispel, +damage, -damage taken, movespeed, etc.
Could be anything but based on the legacy of Grom and the Warsong, who are known for their earth-shattering screams as they cut through their enemies in combat.

Wolfheart
Either a cooldown use ability or some proc mechanic, like when you land a critical strike; do extra damage and generate extra rage, maybe a short term buff of some sort. Animation can be a flash of a giant spectral wolf for a brief second. Based on Varian because if we used two orc heroes and no humans we'd never hear the end of it from the Alliance players.

Draw the Line
Hold a shield in place with both hands, channeling a massive barrier which vastly reduces damage taken while active and reduces the damage taken by any allies behind the warrior. Generates a huge amount of rage over a short time, moderate cooldown.

I'll be honest I threw the last one in there because protection needs a talent to care about, too.

[Orcbert]

Kargath's Depravity

Permanently remove one of your hands following the sadistic ritual of Kargath Bladefist and replace it permanently (hand would grow back with re-spec? =D or attach a blade to your hand somehow that makes this viable.) This blade will scale with your gear's item levels and stats will obviously reflect this spec and be optimal for it, although choosing this would lock you in as either fury or sword and board.

The sight of the massive blade on your arm frightens enemies and weakens their blows reducing damage done to you by X% and there is a chance on hit to either impale or give them a gash that bleeds for X damage per second.

I know we have some talents that just aren't very good for some specs but you are proposing one that will flat out not work with one. You either need an arms alternative or to scrap it. Also, I know you are trying to add flavor and a cool visual but it's weird when a warrior is like, "Hold on a sec guys, I'm going to respec my hand back before this pull."

Also.... http://www.wowhead.com/item=29348#.

[Deleted]

Draw the Line
Hold a shield in place with both hands, channeling a massive barrier which vastly reduces damage taken while active and reduces the damage taken by any allies behind the warrior. Generates a huge amount of rage over a short time, moderate cooldown.

I'll be honest I threw the last one in there because protection needs a talent to care about, too.

The shield one actually sounds very cool and could be usefull for every PvE orientated warrior if you need an extra damage reduction CD for the raid. And not all warriors would have to spec it.

[orville078]

Hellscream
Buff all allies in an area around you. Dispel, +damage, -damage taken, movespeed, etc.
Could be anything but based on the legacy of Grom and the Warsong, who are known for their earth-shattering screams as they cut through their enemies in combat.

Wolfheart
Either a cooldown use ability or some proc mechanic, like when you land a critical strike; do extra damage and generate extra rage, maybe a short term buff of some sort. Animation can be a flash of a giant spectral wolf for a brief second. Based on Varian because if we used two orc heroes and no humans we'd never hear the end of it from the Alliance players.

Draw the Line
Hold a shield in place with both hands, channeling a massive barrier which vastly reduces damage taken while active and reduces the damage taken by any allies behind the warrior. Generates a huge amount of rage over a short time, moderate cooldown.

I'll be honest I threw the last one in there because protection needs a talent to care about, too.

Interesting ideas!

I am really liking the Hellscream idea being an actual...scream. I think damage is given too often, a -damage or movespeed would be nice, although going off of the legendary earth-shattering scream concept I think of ignoring X% of armor or ignoring all armor for X amount of time would be sick and fall in the Hellscream/Warsong cry category.

Wolfheart I am not sure about, we already get enrage from crits with CS, MS, BT, SS, Devastate. Maybe a proc that shadows your last used ability, so if you proc and you used a BT before the proc you auto-attack again. I realize we already kind of get this with strikes of opportunity, so maybe this could be part of the passive bonus to stances, each stance gets a bonus and then chance on special hits and normal hits to immediately use normal attack (if proc'd by a normal attack) or special abilities use the same ability again (if proc'd by a special ability).

Draw the Line I am liking this as well, maybe there is a stomp effect to it with you slamming the shield into the ground that stuns and deals damage around the area and then channels the damage reduction...plus now we can be Gandalf and who doesn't want an ability where they can yell "YOU SHALL NOT PAAAAASSS!"

Great ideas keep them coming people.

[Lysah]

Yeah I didn't really have a good idea of what to do with Wolfheart, I just know that if they decide to do talents based on heroes they better have an alliance one, and Varian makes the most sense =p

Plus it would give a great opportunity for a really awesome animation.

[orville078]

I know we have some talents that just aren't very good for some specs but you are proposing one that will flat out not work with one. You either need an arms alternative or to scrap it. Also, I know you are trying to add flavor and a cool visual but it's weird when a warrior is like, "Hold on a sec guys, I'm going to respec my hand back before this pull."

Also.... http://www.wowhead.com/item=29348#.

Haha yeah I see what you are saying, it does propose a problem with being usable for arms, and I mentioned above that maybe you wouldn't actually remove your hand, but instead attach something like the bladefist you linked. That way it wouldn't be entirely impossible to respec before a fight or something. I also just posted all of these ideas not for ALL of them to be theoretical replacements to the talents, but maybe one or two, I absolutely realize the necessity for at least one to work for a stance and I think you are able to get that out of some of what I have presented.

Very good point though, the bladefist idea does present a big problem for arms warriors - back to the drawing board!

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I didn't really have a good idea of what to do with Wolfheart, I just know that if they decide to do talents based on heroes they better have an alliance one, and Varian makes the most sense =p

Plus it would give a great opportunity for a really awesome animation.

Oh I totally forgot to mention that I was hoping for an Alliance heroes name basically to be stamped over these talents, like Hellscream's Fury could become Varian's Wrath or something like that, basically making is that these abilities don't cater to only one faction.

[Korgoth]

Here are the 3 I want:
1. Intercept: You rush at your target, knocking them down and stunning them for 3s, deals 150% weapon damage. 30s CD.
2. Retaliation: You weave a wall of steel all around you reflecting all incoming damage for 10s. 2min CD.
3. Revenge: You Smash your enemy! Only usable after receiving a critical hit, or being below 50% health. 300% weapon damage, always crits, bypasses armor, cannot be blocked dodged parried or miss, 30s CD.

[orville078]

Here are the 3 I want:
1. Intercept: You rush at your target, knocking them down and stunning them for 3s, deals 150% weapon damage. 30s CD.
2. Retaliation: You weave a wall of steel all around you reflecting all incoming damage for 10s. 2min CD.
3. Revenge: You Smash your enemy! Only usable after receiving a critical hit, or being below 50% health. 300% weapon damage, always crits, bypasses armor, cannot be blocked dodged parried or miss, 30s CD.

Simple, but very effective! I like all of those, but don't really see something that caters towards fury PvE or arms PvE. Solid talents for PvP and prot though.

[Lysah]

Sounds like he just misses all the old abilities they removed from warriors =p

[Valech]

[b]Draw the Line
Hold a shield in place with both hands, channeling a massive barrier which vastly reduces damage taken while active and reduces the damage taken by any allies behind the warrior. Generates a huge amount of rage over a short time, moderate cooldown.

I'll be honest I threw the last one in there because protection needs a talent to care about, too.

Dude.. DUDE, epic. Love that one. If you add, that the warrior cuts line of sight as well, it may even have a purpose in PvP. I like to think of warriors as immoveable objects.

[orville078]

Totally can see that being used, imagine a prot warrior using that in AV when people try to push past a choke point...would be pretty nice!

[Korgoth]

Simple, but very effective! I like all of those, but don't really see something that caters towards fury PvE or arms PvE. Solid talents for PvP and prot though.

"Intercept: You rush at your target, knocking them down and stunning them for 3s, deals 150% weapon damage, 500% if the target is permanently immune to stun. 30s CD, No minimum range." There you go.

Retal one would be good for any fight with situations where you could die to incoming damage, just pop it and fight on. Like any Bladestorm or Cleave mechanic on a boss, no need to run out.

And Revenge yeah is more a Prot War/Pvp thing. But man would it be fun for prot wars, everytime a boss chunks you below 50%, you get a big 300% weapon damage, 100% arp, auto Crit on him.



Oh and I love the Kargath's Depravity idea, but I dont think Id use it as it would be a DPS loss and a pvp damage loss unless you are full geared, because as it is getting weapon first puts us ahead, while having weapon based on average ilvl would put us behind. And Arms wars get it too, WE ARE ARMS WARRIORS, we get the sword arm, its just a lot bigger, and we have a huge bicep on that arm from not being able to walk without holding it up. Or maybe its an Ash Chainsaw situation where it locks onto the arm and can be removed and sheathed on your back.

[Deleted]

"Intercept: You rush at your target, knocking them down and stunning them for 3s, deals 150% weapon damage, 500% if the target is permanently immune to stun. 30s CD, No minimum range." There you go. The 2nd one would be good for any fight with situations where you could die to incoming damage, just pop it and fight on.

I kinda think there'd be a problem in being able to have what is essentially 2 stormbolts in a colossus smash.

[Korgoth]

I kinda think there'd be a problem in being able to have what is essentially 2 stormbolts in a colossus smash.

The only problem I see is the many ruined pairs of pants from the awesomeness of it!