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  1. #1

    Travelling is considered in the same league as repair costs.

    Q: Put a compelling, interesting, or fun activity in that encourages people not to fly. Don’t force it

    A: Is there anything fun or compelling about raid trash? Repair costs? Earning lesser charms? Yet those still have value...
    Whoever brought this question/statement has my thought process written all over it. People want flying to skip travelling because travelling in its current implementation across ALL MMO's is shit. It is mechanically and visually disengaging. You don't have this problem in platformers because they make the act of moving fun in itself nevermind the combat. Heck there are games based on travel alone: all side scrollers 2D/3D (sonic, mario), shooters on rails, all racing games, jesus even the Legend of Zelda had mechanics to engage you while riding Epona.

    It's 2013 and these devs think you can't make travelling fun because it's a god damn MMO!? Why are people funding this?????!!!!!!!!111111

    Damn it flight paths wouldn't be so bad if they were shooters on rails, get some loot and achieves on the way to that flight point why not.

    Q: Questing is boring and tedious as hell at this point. I'd rather just be done with it ASAP.

    A: We don't want it to be an endless slog, but we do view questing as a core component of the experience.
    The answer really should have been "alright chaps time to make questing fun again" instead of "we don't like grind, but questing is important". How about cover that grind up with some fun, oh, oh, oh but you haven't had any good ideas in that department since TBC, oh, oh, oh you weren't even on the development team.
    Last edited by peedei; 2013-11-19 at 05:01 AM.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    The reasoning behind no flying is that flying breaks gameplay. Being able to avoid combat entirely or fly over impassable terrain kinda breaks the game obviously.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    The reasoning behind no flying is that flying breaks gameplay. Being able to avoid combat entirely or fly over impassable terrain kinda breaks the game obviously.
    People prefer that to current questing or ground traveling because oh I don't know...it's freakin' boring!!! Sure in 2004 it was okay but we've all grown to see better implementations since then, MUCH BETTER implementations.

    And they can't think of a damn thing that would make people choose climbing a mountain or engaging in mass slaughter over just picking up immediate quest objectives and moving on. Cos that is exactly what questing is in WoW a checklist of chores you tick off till you can get to something that isn't mind numbingly boring, oh wait you still got to get through LFD/R before you start the real Warcraft. Can questing be meaningful and engaging? HELL YES!!! Other MMO's have achieved this very fluidly, I hate GW2 but it did this incredibly well, even SWTOR quests are better than this shlock and that game is horrible. For christs sake scenarios are instanced I mean WTF they should be public quests.
    Last edited by peedei; 2013-11-19 at 04:17 AM.

  4. #4
    Are you kidding? Backtracking in platformers is a pain in the ass.

    I'd put being unable to fly for ONE PATCH in the same league as repair costs in the whole "doesn't matter" spectrum yeah.

    You can't fly in Timeless Isle and that's the only part of Pandaria that's still relevant. Before that it was IoT. Where was all the rage about being unable to fly? Was it the end of the world? You'll survive.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    Whoever brought this question/statement has my thought process written all over it. People want flying to skip travelling because travelling in its current implementation across ALL MMO's is shit. It is mechanically and visually disengaging. You don't have this problem in platformers because they make the act of moving fun in itself nevermind the combat. Heck there are games based on travel alone: all side scrollers 2D/3D (sonic, mario), shooters on rails, all racing games, jesus even the Legend of Zelda had mechanics to engage you while riding Epona.

    It's 2013 and these devs think you can't make travelling fun because it's a god damn MMO!? Why are we funding this?????!!!!!!!!111111

    Damn it flight paths wouldn't be so bad if they were shooters on rails, get some loot and achieves on the way to that flight point why not.
    Traveling has never been fun, in any game ever. Why traveling is important is because the process makes the world feel larger. Please give me a good idea for making travel "fun", because currently it servers as emphasis on everything else, not content on its own. Blizzard doesnt want you to travel long distances, they want you to be in the world in some way shape or form. I know what you're thinking, but no, hovering 80 feet above it is not "in the world"

    Repair bills are because Blizzard needed some penalty for death, basic MMO formula.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    And they can't think of a damn thing that would make people choose climbing a mountain or engaging in mass slaughter over just picking up immediate quest objectives and moving on. Cos that is exactly what questing is in WoW a checklist of chores you tick off till you can get to something that has meaning 'end game'. Can questing be meaningful and engaging? HELL YES!!! Other MMO's have achieved this very fluidly, I hate GW2 but it did this incredibly well, even SWTOR quests are better than this shlock and that game is horrible. For christs sake scenarios are instanced I mean WTF they should be public quests.
    That's exactly what they're trying to do by making Timeless Isle style events not only in WoD endgame but also as you level. And some of them will be multi-stage events. Which is a bit like how GW2 works I think.

    Also they will mark main plot quest chains separate from sidequests so you can finish off a zone and ignore quests you don't want to do and move on.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    And they can't think of a damn thing that would make people choose climbing a mountain or engaging in mass slaughter over just picking up immediate quest objectives and moving on. Cos that is exactly what questing is in WoW a checklist of chores you tick off till you can get to something that has meaning 'end game'. Can questing be meaningful and engaging? HELL YES!!! Other MMO's have achieved this very fluidly, I hate GW2 but it did this incredibly well, even SWTOR quests are better than this shlock and that game is horrible. For christs sake scenarios are instanced I mean WTF they should be public quests.
    The playerbase generally doesnt care. The playerbase finds nothing interesting about the robe bridges on the timeless isle, which were just an interesting little bit. The playerbase generally finds non-generic quests to be aggravating and tedious. Scenarios are instanced for obvious reasons, they dont want to screw around with phasing the way they did in Cataclysm (hello Hyjal) while still having the world change for a bit.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Traveling has never been fun, in any game ever.
    Are you trying to say Maio Kart is not fun?

    Get out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The playerbase generally doesnt care. The playerbase finds nothing interesting about the robe bridges on the timeless isle, which were just an interesting little bit. The playerbase generally finds non-generic quests to be aggravating and tedious. Scenarios are instanced for obvious reasons, they dont want to screw around with phasing the way they did in Cataclysm (hello Hyjal) while still having the world change for a bit.
    Public questing is a loop that effects all players. Phasing in its current implementation has only been used for single player interactions segmenting everyone.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    Are you trying to say Maio Kart is not fun?

    Get out.
    Grasping at straws here. And the part of mario kart thats fun is flinging shells around, doing tricks and shotcuts and generally just the fighting between people. The driving part is just a mechanism on which its done. Go play Mario Kart without items, just follow the path. Alone. not very fun.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Are you kidding? Backtracking in platformers is a pain in the ass.

    I'd put being unable to fly for ONE PATCH in the same league as repair costs in the whole "doesn't matter" spectrum yeah.

    You can't fly in Timeless Isle and that's the only part of Pandaria that's still relevant. Before that it was IoT. Where was all the rage about being unable to fly? Was it the end of the world? You'll survive.
    I promise you that, while I wasn't full of rage over it, I did notice it and thought it was cheap and shitty and that it sucked. And it's their paradigm for the future, GFG Blizzard.

    Here's the thing: Unless they've got that Jigsaw from the Saw movies torturing them each time someone enjoys a quest, being able to fly doesn't actually harm anything. OH MY FN GOD HE SWOOPED DOWN AND UNLOCKED A CAGE AND FLEW AWAY! WOE IS ME THE QUEST IS RUINED. <-- Not.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Grasping at straws here. And the part of mario kart thats fun is flinging shells around, doing tricks and shotcuts and generally just the fighting between people. The driving part is just a mechanism on which its done. Go play Mario Kart without items, just follow the path. Alone. not very fun.
    Yeah it is, so is need for speed, and gran turismo oh yeah and every other god damn racing game ever made. The emphasis is on driving with a side of pew pew, in fps's the emphasis is on pew pew with a side of interactive movement. Dude get out man, you're just being a clown.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    I promise you that, while I wasn't full of rage over it, I did notice it and thought it was cheap and shitty and that it sucked. And it's their paradigm for the future, GFG Blizzard.

    Here's the thing: Unless they've got that Jigsaw from the Saw movies torturing them each time someone enjoys a quest, being able to fly doesn't actually harm anything. OH MY FN GOD HE SWOOPED DOWN AND UNLOCKED A CAGE AND FLEW AWAY! WOE IS ME THE QUEST IS RUINED. <-- Not.
    Actually the feel of the quest is completely changed. Maybe the player wanted that feeling, but Blizzard decided they want players to feel like the world is XYZ.

    Being able to fly takes players out of all content for the duration of flight. Plain and simple. There shouldnt be a button to suddenly step out of content, then back in somewhere else bypass everything in between. Cities are one thing, but they still dont let you bypass content, just take a break from it. Flying lets you take a break, and bypass content while on your break.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    I promise you that, while I wasn't full of rage over it, I did notice it and thought it was cheap and shitty and that it sucked. And it's their paradigm for the future, GFG Blizzard.

    Here's the thing: Unless they've got that Jigsaw from the Saw movies torturing them each time someone enjoys a quest, being able to fly doesn't actually harm anything. OH MY FN GOD HE SWOOPED DOWN AND UNLOCKED A CAGE AND FLEW AWAY! WOE IS ME THE QUEST IS RUINED. <-- Not.
    OMG THEY'RE NOT PLAYING THIS AS INTENDED Burn all the players pointing out flaws in our design!!!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    Yeah it is, so is need for speed, and gran turismo oh yeah and every other god damn racing game ever made. The emphasis is on driving with a side of pew pew, in fps's the emphasis is on pew pew with a side of interactive movement. Dude get out man, you're just being a clown.
    The emphasis on racing games is competition. You want to win. Same with FPS.

    Release a racing game with just Time Trials, and not even preprogrammed times to try against. See how well it sells. Now a racing game without timetrials, but regular multiplayer and races against AI. It isnt about driving, it is about competition.

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    The reasoning behind no flying is that flying breaks gameplay. Being able to avoid combat entirely or fly over impassable terrain kinda breaks the game obviously.
    Hasn't broken the game for four damn expansions yet.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Actually the feel of the quest is completely changed. Maybe the player wanted that feeling, but Blizzard decided they want players to feel like the world is XYZ.

    Being able to fly takes players out of all content for the duration of flight. Plain and simple. There shouldnt be a button to suddenly step out of content, then back in somewhere else bypass everything in between. Cities are one thing, but they still dont let you bypass content, just take a break from it. Flying lets you take a break, and bypass content while on your break.
    The Y axis is up and down like flying mounts or do you not know what they actually mean? x (side to side) y (up and down) z (depth)

    TOO LATE I JUST EDUCATED YOU

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Hasn't broken the game for four damn expansions yet.
    L2read. Flying breaks gameplay. And it does, it has seriously changed gameplay in the world since its introduction. Now the endgame has stayed fairly strong with a couple dips, but Blizzard doesnt want just endgame, as WoW has become.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The emphasis on racing games is competition. You want to win. Same with FPS.

    Release a racing game with just Time Trials, and not even preprogrammed times to try against. See how well it sells. Now a racing game without timetrials, but regular multiplayer and races against AI. It isnt about driving, it is about competition.
    Competition is an underlying element in every damn game, oh what was that expression 'grasping for straws'!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    The Y axis is up and down like flying mounts or do you not know what they actually mean? x (side to side) y (up and down) z (depth)

    TOO LATE I JUST EDUCATED YOU
    Yes, I took Algebra 2, I know about graphic in three dimensions. Are you dont spewing what I can only hope is a bad attempt at satire?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by peedei View Post
    Competition is an underlying element in every damn game, oh what was that expression 'grasping for straws'!
    Not really. Competition isnt much of a key element in single player RPGs. You arent competing against anybody, there is no score at all.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    L2read. Flying breaks gameplay. And it does, it has seriously changed gameplay in the world since its introduction. Now the endgame has stayed fairly strong with a couple dips, but Blizzard doesnt want just endgame, as WoW has become.
    Not for 4 expansions. With how zealously you're defending this could you possibly be the developer who had this bright idea. Go on ruin the game even more, god knows why you still have your job after almost 2 years decline in subscribers.
    Last edited by peedei; 2013-11-19 at 04:32 AM.

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