View Poll Results: Will Pandaren or Pandaria ever get any new lore or attention after MoP?

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  • Pandaren and Pandaria will remain the central focus of ALL WoW expansions to come.

    57 5.04%
  • Pandaren will get more lore development than other races.

    48 4.25%
  • Pandaren will get very little lore development in the future.

    587 51.95%
  • Pandaren and Pandaria will be ignored in the future lore after MoP.

    438 38.76%
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  1. #421
    Poll seems biased. They aren't a joke race, but it's unlikely they'll get any more development than any other playable race.

    If you want to look at it in terms of development, Pandaren are one of the only WoW races that aren't a joke race, considering we got an entire expansion devoted to them. Blood Elves come close because of TBC, Orcs I suppose in WoD...but I can't remember any other player race being treated with an entire expansion focused on their story.

  2. #422
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    They're not a joke as long as they're canon. Silly maybe, but I think they're silly in a good way.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  3. #423
    Field Marshal Daziel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    I present with you a very simple premise:

    "Pandaren are a joke race because Blizzard will never again in the future show us any Pandaren lore."

    I think most people will agree with the statement that Pandaren most likely are never going to get any attention anymore in any of the future expansions, similarly as to how neither Gnomes get any attention, because they're a comical relief race and nothing else.
    In my opinion you are completely right. Pandaren and Pandaria is out of place in this game. It was literally a joke race from Warcraft 3 and still are a joke to me. I hope to never see any lore for them in WoW again. I think a whole expansion about this race is enough.

  4. #424
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Then you'd remember that the entire reason the Horde went to Pandaria was to stripmine it for resources to fuel their war in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. The reason the Alliance stayed after the Adventurer's landing party found Anduin was to stop the Horde from doing so.
    Neither faction went to Pandaria deliberately, it was a landmass found purely by accident. This could have been any of the southern islands, not necessarily Pandaria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    As detailed in Tides of War, the other leaders were discontent but had no other choice but to go along or risk Garrosh using them as a target to unify the rest of the Horde. MoP's story, after the first tier of raid content where we fixed the messes we made and got in good with the locals so that order of monks and assassins didn't kill us in our sleep, was about building up tensions in the Horde as the Alliance scored victory after victory and Garrosh continued to drive the other Horde leaders into a corner, starting with Vol'jin's attempted assassination and throwing Lor'themar's blood elves into the grinder without a thought spared for their well-being.
    None of which needed Pandaria to do so. As already mentioned, the destruction of Theramore would have been enough to precipitate any of this in any manner of means the writers chose. Hell, they could have simply gone down this road:

    1) Garrosh destroys Theramore.
    2) The Alliance decides to attack as a result.
    3) The Horde leadership sides with the Alliance (for reasons you mentioned).
    4) Battlefield: Barrens begins, with the Siege of Orgrimmar following.
    5) Vol'jin's assassination is attempted during this time.
    6) Garrosh is defeated and flees to Draenor.

    So we jump from the end of Cataclysm to the start of WoD, with no requirement at all for Pandaria. Given that Tom Chilton recently said they were thinking about what Warlords of Draenor was going to be around the Mists launch, we know this fable of "three to four expansions in advance" is exactly that; a fable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    ...and again, good job missing the part where literally the entire post-launch storyline has been about the world war between the Alliance and Horde culminating in the Horde fracturing and a definitive Alliance victory, as even the rebellion failed to deliver on its promise to capture the docks for the Alliance and needed Tyrande to reinforce their position from the getgo.
    See, this is why I'm not particularly interested in speaking to you. I've been pretty clear about how I view the Pandaria story, and why, and you retort with "good job on missing things".

    I didn't miss anything.

    My opinion simply differs from yours.

    Everything in your quoted paragraph could have been done via my timeline above. It simply didn't need Pandaria, and the extant threats of the Sha, Mantid and Mogu are now entirely non-existent now that we've left the place. We, as factions, could have landed anywhere and done what you've mentioned above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    What the factions learned in the launch storyline was that fighting is fine, so long as you're fighting for the right reasons and you know when to back up and say 'yo this is stupid.' I'd argue that the time spent with the pandaren is why the Alliance adventurer was willing to act as an impromptu ambassador to Vol'jin's revolutionaries, and the assassination attempt coupled with his time among the Shado-Pan are what galvanized Vol'jin into action to begin with. The Shado-Pan again played a key role in the faction war on the Isle of Thunder by getting Lor'themar and Jaina talking long enough to realize they literally wanted the same thing rather than slugging it out and wasting people on fighting each other.
    The inconsistencies in the story, unfortunately, cause all manner of issues here. It doesn't make sense for two warring factions to end up on Pandaria and decide "war is bad, yo" thanks to chubby pandas sending them off with painted turnips. It's fucking ridiculous to suggest otherwise. As for impromptu ambassadors, this story had already been told via Vol'jin and the Rise of the Zandalari. Other inconsistencies include Tyrande being schooled by Varian with regard to patience, or the fact Jaina reconciles with Lor'themar... Only to demand Varian dismantles the Horde at the conclusion of the expansion.

    It's all over the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    You'd also miss out on a large amount of character development for Varian, Vol'jin, Garrosh, Baine, Lor'themar, the player character, fan favorite Chen Stormstout, and the introduction of other characters like Admirals Taylor and Rogers, who I have no doubt will have a role to play for the Alliance in the future.
    All of which could have been done elsewhere.

    What I'm saying here is that the Mists story was shoved in as a marketing gamble and that the story was tied in as best as possible afterwards. I'm not saying there was no lore in Pandaria (nor have I ever said this), I'm saying that it was almost entirely superfluous and that we could have easily jumped from Cataclysm to Warlords of Draenor without the need for any of this. The Pandaria story was shrouded by design up until this expansion, to the extent where people STILL didn't believe it was going to be MoP even after the BlizzCon announcement.

    You can argue back about what happened in Pandaria, but you'd be missing my point.

    The game didn't need it, and it wasn't planned until comparatively recently.

    Judging by how badly it's done, I'll bet Blizzard wish they hadn't risked it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  5. #425
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    Neither faction went to Pandaria deliberately, it was a landmass found purely by accident. This could have been any of the southern islands, not necessarily Pandaria.
    They found it on accident, then went deliberately. There's a difference here--Garrosh, after Nazgrim reported of finding it, specifically told the two of us to go out and conquer the place. The Alliance go there, again after finding it, to go find Anduin and from there, to stop the Horde.

    Which begs my personal question--if any other island could have done the job as well as Pandaria, what makes Pandaria the issue in particular here?

    None of which needed Pandaria to do so. As already mentioned, the destruction of Theramore would have been enough to precipitate any of this in any manner of means the writers chose. Hell, they could have simply gone down this road:

    1) Garrosh destroys Theramore.
    2) The Alliance decides to attack as a result.
    3) The Horde leadership sides with the Alliance (for reasons you mentioned).
    4) Battlefield: Barrens begins, with the Siege of Orgrimmar following.
    5) Vol'jin's assassination is attempted during this time.
    6) Garrosh is defeated and flees to Draenor.
    They spent an awful lot of time in The Shattering and Tides of War pointing out why the moderate Horde leaders like Baine and Vol'jin had to back Garrosh. The rebellion didn't happen until Vol'jin was a death's door and got back to his roots about what it meant to be a troll and a shadow hunter. More on that below because you touch on this subject down there.

    So we jump from the end of Cataclysm to the start of WoD, with no requirement at all for Pandaria. Given that Tom Chilton recently said they were thinking about what Warlords of Draenor was going to be around the Mists launch, we know this fable of "three to four expansions in advance" is exactly that; a fable.
    Who claimed they were 3-4 expansions in advance? My general understanding was they seriously began development at the release of either the current expansion or the one before, and did groundwork for the one after that as time allowed.

    See, this is why I'm not particularly interested in speaking to you. I've been pretty clear about how I view the Pandaria story, and why, and you retort with "good job on missing things".

    I didn't miss anything.

    My opinion simply differs from yours.
    When your opinion relies entirely on omitting more than 1/4 of an expansion storyline and the factions' motives for remaining there and warring over its resources, it tells me you didn't play through the postlaunch content. My apologies for being mistaken here.

    Everything in your quoted paragraph could have been done via my timeline above. It simply didn't need Pandaria, and the extant threats of the Sha, Mantid and Mogu are now entirely non-existent now that we've left the place. We, as factions, could have landed anywhere and done what you've mentioned above.
    I would argue it might actually be a good thing for a change that we've dealt with problems once and for all rather than left stragglers to harass us in the future. I'd go so far as to argue we really need to do that more often, as often as things come back to bite us in the ass.

    And again, your stance begs the question--if anywhere else would have worked just as well, what makes Pandaria such a problem since it did the job?


    The inconsistencies in the story, unfortunately, cause all manner of issues here. It doesn't make sense for two warring factions to end up on Pandaria and decide "war is bad, yo" thanks to chubby pandas sending them off with painted turnips. It's fucking ridiculous to suggest otherwise. As for impromptu ambassadors, this story had already been told via Vol'jin and the Rise of the Zandalari. Other inconsistencies include Tyrande being schooled by Varian with regard to patience, or the fact Jaina reconciles with Lor'themar... Only to demand Varian dismantles the Horde at the conclusion of the expansion.
    They didn't decide 'war is bad' because they were sent off with turnips. They learn that war for war's sake is self-destructive, and most everyone but the orcs knew from the getgo that all-out war past the point of no return was going to be a war with no winners. And yes, sometimes you really do need an oustide perspective on things to see what should be obvious--it's why any good writer goes to friends for feedback on stuff (in before inevitable 'Metzen should have gotten feedback').

    Vol'jin and the Zandalari thing happened before he helped Garrosh nuke a city led by a known moderate who constantly vied for peace. Without that outside perspective on things for the Alliance Adventurer to take into account, they may well have followed through on their threat to take the resources and tell Vol'jin to piss off.

    Tyrande got derailed hard. The fans are pretty much in consensus on that one, and I am, too. I'd argue it should have been about King Bruce Campbell getting a lesson in cooling his heels given the age disparity.

    Jaina reconciling with Lor'themar, who was never really up in arms with Horde fervor and had been a known moderate if only because he rarely cared about the faction war outside its effects on his people, and wanting the Horde to no longer be a self-governing faction aren't mutually exclusive. Right now the orcs in particular have a track record showing they can't be trusted with political power outside individuals like Thrall, who are in the vast minority here by all accounts in The Shattering, ingame in Wrath, Cata, and MoP, and in Tides of War. Given her mental state and the trauma she got hit with in Tides of War, I'm not surprised she doesn't want the Horde governing itself anymore.

    All of which could have been done elsewhere.

    What I'm saying here is that the Mists story was shoved in as a marketing gamble and that the story was tied in as best as possible afterwards. I'm not saying there was no lore in Pandaria (nor have I ever said this), I'm saying that it was almost entirely superfluous and that we could have easily jumped from Cataclysm to Warlords of Draenor without the need for any of this. The Pandaria story was shrouded by design up until this expansion, to the extent where people STILL didn't believe it was going to be MoP even after the BlizzCon announcement.

    You can argue back about what happened in Pandaria, but you'd be missing my point.

    The game didn't need it, and it wasn't planned until comparatively recently.

    Judging by how badly it's done, I'll bet Blizzard wish they hadn't risked it.
    Honestly, something tells me we're going to be having this same back-and-forth next expansion. You argue that it's superfluous, I argue that if XYZ place would have served the story just as well, then Pandaria by extension did the same job and, in my opinion, did it well.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  6. #426
    They learn that war for war's sake is self-destructive, and most everyone but the orcs knew from the getgo that all-out war past the point of no return was going to be a war with no winners
    See it's that kind of message that really made this expansion sour for me.

  7. #427
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    See it's that kind of message that really made this expansion sour for me.
    It's mutually-assured destruction. It's been that way since Vanilla and only got worse when the two began loading up on mages and WMDs, especially the Horde with Forsaken plaguebombing and the Alliance with gnomes (who can and have used radiation as a weapon, and Thermaplugg figured out how to make radiation bombs as shown in Operation: Gnomeregan so I wouldn't put it past Mekkatorque to figure it out if push came to shove).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post





    1) Garrosh destroys Theramore.
    2) The Alliance decides to attack as a result.
    3) The Horde leadership sides with the Alliance (for reasons you mentioned).
    4) Battlefield: Barrens begins, with the Siege of Orgrimmar following.
    5) Vol'jin's assassination is attempted during this time.
    6) Garrosh is defeated and flees to Draenor.
    So where would 85-90 be? What content would we have with an expansion like that, Still just using Cata leveling? Are you mad? I will admit we could still have the same outcome without pandaria, but we would need something to do not just blatant pve, and pvp with no real motive or any leveling content at all.

  9. #429
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    1) Garrosh destroys Theramore.
    2) The Alliance decides to attack as a result.
    3) The Horde leadership sides with the Alliance (for reasons you mentioned).
    4) Battlefield: Barrens begins, with the Siege of Orgrimmar following.
    5) Vol'jin's assassination is attempted during this time.
    6) Garrosh is defeated and flees to Draenor.
    that sounds insanely boring, no exploration, no new race or class or cultures to interact with... It has to be set somewhere, and the choice of somewhere happened to be Pandaria...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    Neither faction went to Pandaria deliberately, it was a landmass found purely by accident. This could have been any of the southern islands, not necessarily Pandaria.
    there is a logical fallacy in this argument,
    The fact that there is no reason for the expansion not to take place in the south seas, is equally true for the fact there is not reason for is not to take place in pandaria.

    The two settings are arbitrary from the point of view of necessity, and there can be no distinction made between them from the point of view of necessity, if the expansion had been set anywhere else you could still claim there was no reason for it to be set there and not in pandaria or anywhere else.

    pandaria has value on it's own merit as a freaking beautiful continent with several entertaining, charming, and interesting cultures, in particular the Pandarens that many people have very vocally wanted to see for many years, and that certainly did not overlap to the detriment of established themes and motifs. So it's as good as any place to have an expansion...
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-11-27 at 03:54 PM.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Does that site give you the percentage of pandaren when split between alliance and horde?
    Yes, but as a race, as in everyone that wants to play as a Pandaren, they are the 7th most played race.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    I think a lot of people made pandarens to check out their new starting area. I did. They are new and have a special starting area so that is obviously going to appeal to some people to give them a try. That said, I never played my Pandaren again after the starting area.
    Yes I agree, but the numbers I looked up and as I indicated in my original post, I only looked at the characters that hit 90.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    It's mutually-assured destruction. It's been that way since Vanilla and only got worse when the two began loading up on mages and WMDs, especially the Horde with Forsaken plaguebombing and the Alliance with gnomes (who can and have used radiation as a weapon, and Thermaplugg figured out how to make radiation bombs as shown in Operation: Gnomeregan so I wouldn't put it past Mekkatorque to figure it out if push came to shove).
    I don't need to be aware. It adds a dimension that's completely inappropriate to this game and the "warring faction" foundations this has been fixed on since the beginning.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I don't need to be aware. It adds a dimension that's completely inappropriate to this game and the "warring faction" foundations this has been fixed on since the beginning.
    From a story perspective it's entirely appropriate. Just war for war's sake would simply erode both factions to the point of non-existence.

    For the story to be able to continue and for there to actually be more Alliance and Horde conflict... there has to be a break in the violence. You can't have a continuously ramping-up war without suffering the consequences of such.

    Also, frankly, the break in violence we'll be seeing for a bit now will be more akin to classic WoW and TBC than what we saw happen in Cataclysm and Mists. It was only in Wrath where actual wide-scale conflict began, rather than competition and skirmishes. WoW was built on opposed factions. It wasn't built off of warring factions. That came later.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2013-11-27 at 05:35 PM.

  13. #433
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I don't need to be aware. It adds a dimension that's completely inappropriate to this game and the "warring faction" foundations this has been fixed on since the beginning.
    And here I thought one of the biggest complaints about WoW lore is that it's too two-dimensional. And again, the point was that war is not an inherently bad thing, but going out and slaughtering people for the hell of it is a pretty clear indicator that there's a psychopath in a position of power somewhere in the chain of command.

    Never mind that the story evolved beyond 'warring factions' as far back as the second half of the Orc Campaign in WC3 when Thrall and Jaina formed a coalition. Or how things were in a cold war in Vanilla, but the factions allied during the Gates of Ahn'Quiraj event, a coalition that went unimpeded through Outland's storyline and into the early parts of Northrend's, before the Wrathgate caused a breakdown and Garrosh and Varian killed it--during a time when neither were portrayed sympathetically from a storytelling point of view. Even in Cataclysm, the faction war was put on the backburner once the adventurer made their way for the Twilight Highlands and settled in with either the Wildhammers or the Dragonmaw--they had their tit-for-tat and that was it once they moved against Cho'Gall's forces. And again, Varian is portrayed as an unstable asshole and Garrosh as reckless and irresponsible at best outside one low-level storyline.

    So... yeah. The lesson of 'going to war just to be an asshole still makes you an asshole' is entirely feasible in the Warcraft universe, which hadn't specifically been about faction warfare as the center stage for around decade before Cataclysm, give or take.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    Would be kinda silly considering most people are agreeing with me and the OP.
    People with something to complain about are more vocal, as proven by the creation of threads bashing something compared to the number created to praise the same feature.
    Relying on the amount of noise to justify your argument reeks of desperation, and is just outright flawed.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  15. #435
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Where's the "Anarchor suffers from slight mental retardation so do excuse the thread" option?

    Keep it civil please.
    Don't feed his ego. He only posted this to draw posters to be tempted into infractions. Seems some have taken the bait.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  16. #436
    While I agree that Pandaran will probably never see any additional lore again, they are not a joke race. Gnomes and goblins are highly commical, and sometimes dwarves. But the Pandaran as presented in this game have mostly been very serious characters tied to dark story lines of oppression.

    While there was plenty of comedy in this expansion, it rarely had anything to do with the Pandaran.

  17. #437
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    It's the little report button which I just used on you so you can enjoy yet another forumbreak at my hands. LOL

    (You're too easy).
    How did that work out for you?

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    Neither faction went to Pandaria deliberately, it was a landmass found purely by accident. This could have been any of the southern islands, not necessarily Pandaria.



    None of which needed Pandaria to do so. As already mentioned, the destruction of Theramore would have been enough to precipitate any of this in any manner of means the writers chose. Hell, they could have simply gone down this road:

    1) Garrosh destroys Theramore.
    2) The Alliance decides to attack as a result.
    3) The Horde leadership sides with the Alliance (for reasons you mentioned).
    4) Battlefield: Barrens begins, with the Siege of Orgrimmar following.
    5) Vol'jin's assassination is attempted during this time.
    6) Garrosh is defeated and flees to Draenor.

    So we jump from the end of Cataclysm to the start of WoD, with no requirement at all for Pandaria. Given that Tom Chilton recently said they were thinking about what Warlords of Draenor was going to be around the Mists launch, we know this fable of "three to four expansions in advance" is exactly that; a fable.


    So what would you have them do? You have a really boring view on the game. I would rather go to new lands, meet new races and learn new lore. ALL while moving the over arching story forward.

  19. #439
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    You probably shouldn't (try to) insult RL people because you feel defensive about an imaginary pixel panda race.
    Polygons man, this isn't the 16 bit era you know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Man, that thread title took me back to 2011.





    Time travel is intense.
    Look, I know you went back in time, but really, it's not time travel! It'll make sense!
    Also, you may have created an alternate timeline. Good job!

  20. #440
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
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    Well then, since Pandaren and the Orcs (WoD) are the only races that got their expansions, I guess all other races are joke races.

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