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  1. #1
    Over 9000! adam86shadow's Avatar
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    (If you want faster queues, be nice to your tanks!)

    The drop in the number of tanks in Raid Finder is partially due to how they are treated. (If you want faster queues, be nice to your tanks!)
    Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized

  2. #2
    Yes, it's very true. There was a poll recently asking the tanks if they tanked LFR - 85% said they wouldn't, and about 40% said it was because of the other players.

  3. #3
    The Patient Nydinia's Avatar
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    I have seen it where the tanks don't know the fight 100% and the healers/DPS gang up on them. People are afraid to ask for help, and often when they do ask the first response is "kick this noob, this is taking too long".

    LFR seems to want to queue instantly and finish the 3-4 bosses in about 10 minutes with zero wipes. Doing anything but that is a great way to incur the anonymous wrath of jerks.

  4. #4
    Over 9000! adam86shadow's Avatar
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    TBH I don't tank because I find tanking boring...

  5. #5
    I have a feeling that response was coached to GC by the gamebreaker.tv staff. They (Olivia D. Grace, Pat Krane(sp)) firmly believe that tanks are the smallest group and are ganged up upon, so it's likely when discussing it with GC, they said tanks are treated like crap, and his response was to "be nice to your tanks".

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Many tanks suffer from special snowflakiness and fragile egos.

    To be fair tanks do have more on their plate in most pve content below actual raiding, yet when it comes to actual raiding healers and dps have way more to do than tanks. Funny how that works out.

    But yeah I agree. Most toxic players I ever met or played with in WoW were tanks.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
    I have seen it where the tanks don't know the fight 100% and the healers/DPS gang up on them. People are afraid to ask for help, and often when they do ask the first response is "kick this noob, this is taking too long".
    I'm not even a tank and I very much agree. People are too quick to kick you if you don't know the fights 100%. I'm sure that if I were to do LFR on a tank character that I'd be in the same mess. That's also the reason why I won't even queue.

    People should be more respectful towards others. What does it matter that someone doesn't know the fight? Just explain it an give it a go. LFR isn't that hard so you'll get it eventually. Sheesh.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized
    to be honest i've only ever seen 3 types of tank in LFR

    1) the guy who knows what he is doing, likely has at least flex/normal gear, pretty much gets it spot on and a wipe is never his fault alone
    2) the guy who knows what he is doing, but is an absolute cunt about it, and is a douche to the whole raid for not being perfect. is a special snowflake
    3) the guy who doesn't know everything, and makes a couple of mistakes, and the entire raid rages at him until he leaves, and then wait in a queue for half an hour, complaining about the wait time.

    i'll be honest, 2s are rarer than anything else, and 3 happens a lot more than it should. hardly anybody gives tanks a chance in my experience. whats worse, the people that rage will even rage at people who use their off spec mid raid to stop the whole group waiting around... i don't really PuG much, so i'm only talking about LFR here, might be different in other difficulties

  9. #9
    I frankly don't buy this for a moment.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    I always liked being the tank because it's the leader role. I've always liked to lead and help others achieve their goals... When I tank, I focus on quality and quickness. I go as fast as I can without leaving everyone behind. Even w/ leveling I don't care if people want to mass pull for me, because most tanks have some form of cleave by this point so I could careless if someone has aggro when I have 500% increased aggro over everyone else. I know I do good, but it also feels better when people acknowledge your efforts and that you try to be a good tank.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized
    It might be true, but it's the most fucking pointless statement I have ever heard coming from Blizzard (read: tragedy of the commons). The fact is that tank queues are a Blizzard problem and they are refusing responsibility for fixing it.

    A quote from the #2 Cataclysm review (actually I got this from a massive forum troll, but it has stuck with me):

    "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Many tanks suffer from special snowflakiness and fragile egos... But yeah I agree. Most toxic players I ever met or played with in WoW were tanks.
    This too. I find a good tank rarely gets too much abuse, really. Not saying it won't/doesn't happen, but even if it does, if community interaction is making people not choose tanking that again is a game design problem. I don't understand how many times it needs to be nailed for Blizzard (and the players themselves, sometimes) to learn that you can't expect a community to fix itself.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal Negative's Avatar
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    I used to do LFRs and tank them but it got to the point the community was far too toxic for me I'd go in there and generally I was by far overgeared for LFR and not get called but I did it for fun it was just people "Kick this guy and kick this guy" so I no longer even touch LFR I'm yet to even queue for it this tier because of the LFR community.
    Negativë - US Sargeras
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  13. #13
    In my experience, and the experience of most I play with, this is absolutely true

    Anecdotal, I know, but I know many people who don't tank anymore because people are jerks. It's why I don't tank LFR.

  14. #14
    In my experience in LFR, everyone is treated like crap, not just tanks. If you mess up, people treat you poorly. It just happens that tank mess-ups are much more visible, so when the tank messes up, everyone knows it. That's the issue.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Cinnamohn's Avatar
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    More often than not, they either have a stick up their butt, or a thumb up their butt.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized
    this is my experience too, personally i think a lot of tanks are just primadonnas by nature.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negative View Post
    I used to do LFRs and tank them but it got to the point the community was far too toxic for me I'd go in there and generally I was by far overgeared for LFR and not get called but I did it for fun it was just people "Kick this guy and kick this guy" so I no longer even touch LFR I'm yet to even queue for it this tier because of the LFR community.
    Part of the reason it's so bad is because LFR itself is actually overtuned for the majority of players. When you can berserk a fight, that's 10 minutes (!) spent on a wipe. Multiply that by 2-3 and that's 20-30 minutes of effort you put in to wipe to berserk. Considering that an LFR should be expected to take about 10-15 minutes per boss, that's fucking extreme.

    When people are sinking multiple hours into a single wing of LFR for very little reward and that is the main endgame content (since "heroics" are gone now), of course they will get pissed off. Since it's difficult to identify what the problem actually is with so many players, rather than try to teach a player (as in a 5 man), in a 25 man it's easier just to boot their ass out. And you have to, because when you're wasting 30+ min of your life, obviously you need to find something to blame.

    Repeat: Design problem.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Nalira's Avatar
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    Tanking is still boring. Even with nice people.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery will fix it."

  19. #19
    While players should be nicer to tanks, I don't think that's the main problem with there being so few.

    I'm thinking if they made tanks (and healers) more equal to dps in raid slots, we could see more tanks.
    Maybe have encounters require 3 tanks, 3 healers and 4 dps for 10 man and equally divided for 25 man, 10 tanks, 10 healers 15 dps.
    I'm not sure if that would work but it would certainly make things interesting (and remove spotlight from tanks).

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Lazuli's Avatar
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    It's basic principle, you get treated like shit you aren't gonna wanna do it again. I also never see compliments to good healers or tanks even when they play phenomenal so I try to comment where I can. Hopefully that encourages them to return to the role.

    Protip: high percentage of WoW players are scared to take up the big roles because of the stress level or fear of failure, bringing them down only increases that fear.. it's no wonder there is a shortage. This game has too toxic a community, but you're only hurting yourselves.

    I don't mind the long ass queue's because I'm usually doing something during them, 30 min is pretty ridic though.
    "I find this rain quite pleasant. It feels as though raindrops are blessing our victory..."

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