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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by xBryn View Post
    One solution is to remove any boss ability/mechanic that requires a player to actively use cd's or having to think before pressing buttons. They should remove stacking debuffs so no tank need to taunt, they should remove having to move out of fire, dispelling etc. That is the only way that all players in a raid can contribute on equal terms.
    That isn't a solution, that just exacerbates the current problem.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by xBryn View Post
    One solution is to remove any boss ability/mechanic that requires a player to actively use cd's or having to think before pressing buttons. They should remove stacking debuffs so no tank need to taunt, they should remove having to move out of fire, dispelling etc. That is the only way that all players in a raid can contribute on equal terms.
    I've seen a handful of LFR's where the tank ignores literally everything and the boss still dies without a hitch. Few weeks ago was on Dark Shaman and the tank stood still the entire time, though tornadoes, bad stuff on the ground, walls, everything. Sucked to be melee, but even that guy didn't get kicked, just moved on to the next boss.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by dubious_doomhammer View Post
    That isn't a solution, that just exacerbates the current problem.
    That's my point, tanks that are shitty don't want to get called shitty. So level the playing field so they also can afk/autoattack and still tank successfully.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I've seen a handful of LFR's where the tank ignores literally everything and the boss still dies without a hitch. Few weeks ago was on Dark Shaman and the tank stood still the entire time, though tornadoes, bad stuff on the ground, walls, everything. Sucked to be melee, but even that guy didn't get kicked, just moved on to the next boss.
    Exactly, people don't care how anyone else is performing as long as bosses die at a reasonable pace.

  4. #304
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    i generally give blizzard fairly wide berth in its blue posts, but that comment 'be nice to your tanks' sounds really flippant and glib

    i DON'T think that players can be told how to behave on WoW, and as a tank, I don't want mommy and daddy Blizzard telling my bully-dps sibblings to stop bullying me, because i know that won't make them stop, i need mommy and daddy blizz to FORCE my bully-dps siblings to be nicer to me. If they won't intervene, no one will.

    (yeah I know, it's a really stupid analogy... don't hold me to it)
    .


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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by xBryn View Post
    That's my point, tanks that are shitty don't want to get called shitty. So level the playing field so they also can afk/autoattack and still tank successfully.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly, people don't care how anyone else is performing as long as bosses die at a reasonable pace.
    What point is there in even playing or paying a monthly subscription at that point?

  6. #306
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taojnhy View Post
    Your general tone does very little to differentiate you from "toxic".
    More "realistic" than "toxic," thank you. A toxic player would be bitching but not actually going forward toward a solution (such as saying "everyone needs to be nice" which again, just isn't going to happen unless you happen to be God able to pull everyone in the world's strings).

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by dubious_doomhammer View Post
    What point is there in even playing or paying a monthly subscription at that point?
    Ask all the afk-ing dps and healers that question... <.<

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    "Enjoy LFR" rofl what an oxymoron.

    Listen kid, if you don't even play anymore maybe you should not give opinions. If you actually played even once a month in LFR you'd quickly understand why nobody, nobody enjoys LFR whether abuse or not.
    You sound like a spoiled entitled player who would rather see these bosses as target dummies rather than actual challenges to overcome.

    Raiding was never intended to be as easy as it is in LFR. They simply created a much more casual approach to their raid bosses to please people like you who feel entitled to "see everything because I pay $15 a month too!"

    To make the LFR bosses any less difficult would be to effectively turn the bosses into target dummies / loot pinatas.

    Wiping is part of the game weather you like it or not. And if you are too inconvenienced by wiping a few times on content that is already tuned so the lowest common denominator can kill it and get loot, then maybe you should stick to flex / normal.

    TL;DR Stop complaining about LFR. It is what it is, and they should not decrease the difficulty just to please entitled players who feel wiping shouldn't exist in this game.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized
    I'd say it's true. I stopped playing my pally because of other people being complete dick heads and refuse to play my dk as blood. I will do dungeons as a tank spec in dps gear if I need quick valor. Otherwise I don't touch my tank specs unless my guild needs a tank for something. If I say I haven't tanked this before I get kicked or ridiculed even if I do a decent(not perfect) job tanking. So I just said fuck it not worth the time. The community has nothing to blame but themselves for the tank shortage for LFR.

  10. #310
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    Raiding was never intended to be as easy as it is in LFR. They simply created a much more casual approach to their raid bosses to please people like you who feel entitled to "see everything because I pay $15 a month too!"
    I don't do LFR and I am not one of those "see everything because I pay $15 a month." I do not need to do LFR at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    To make the LFR bosses any less difficult would be to effectively turn the bosses into target dummies / loot pinatas.
    That's pretty much what they are at this point. The only people who really do LFR do it for gear whether it be on their main or their alts. It is currently the only way you can get loot for Flex mode even unless you raided previous tiers. It's not like DS where it was actually optional loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    Wiping is part of the game weather you like it or not. And if you are too inconvenienced by wiping a few times on content that is already tuned so the lowest common denominator can kill it and get loot, then maybe you should stick to flex / normal.
    Most people who do LFR don't have the same time flex/normal players do to wipe. If they had that time in their schedule, they would probably be doing flex and/or normal. Please use some brains before making more incorrect assumptions, again.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    You sound like a spoiled entitled player who would rather see these bosses as target dummies rather than actual challenges to overcome.

    Raiding was never intended to be as easy as it is in LFR. They simply created a much more casual approach to their raid bosses to please people like you who feel entitled to "see everything because I pay $15 a month too!"

    To make the LFR bosses any less difficult would be to effectively turn the bosses into target dummies / loot pinatas.

    Wiping is part of the game weather you like it or not. And if you are too inconvenienced by wiping a few times on content that is already tuned so the lowest common denominator can kill it and get loot, then maybe you should stick to flex / normal.

    TL;DR Stop complaining about LFR. It is what it is, and they should not decrease the difficulty just to please entitled players who feel wiping shouldn't exist in this game.
    Wait are you suggesting they aren't challenge dummies? They are literal piñatas. I may make time to real them because some people can't swing for shit, but it's okay because somebody else will do the majority of the work and even if they can't, the bats will just be turned from wood to metal to diamond each time you are out of breath.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    So why do you take it personally when you know you did nothing wrong? You think that I wasn't insulted plenty of times by some random DPS that died in a fire? Just ignore them, or make them pay for their insults.
    Well I'm glad you don't mind being insulted while playing a game. I prefer to avoid that kind of situation. And there's other people just like me. So the end result is less tanks queuing.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    You sound like a spoiled entitled player who would rather see these bosses as target dummies rather than actual challenges to overcome.

    Raiding was never intended to be as easy as it is in LFR. They simply created a much more casual approach to their raid bosses to please people like you who feel entitled to "see everything because I pay $15 a month too!"

    To make the LFR bosses any less difficult would be to effectively turn the bosses into target dummies / loot pinatas.

    Wiping is part of the game weather you like it or not. And if you are too inconvenienced by wiping a few times on content that is already tuned so the lowest common denominator can kill it and get loot, then maybe you should stick to flex / normal.

    TL;DR Stop complaining about LFR. It is what it is, and they should not decrease the difficulty just to please entitled players who feel wiping shouldn't exist in this game.
    That's the problem, they don't put any restriction on LFR, once a player reaches a certain ilvl they are qualified for raiding according to the current system.
    And thus you attract the kind of player that feel entitled to free loot and no wiping/challenge. They should have made LFR much harder than it is, that way dps and healers couldn't get away with afk-ing. But that is what the system is like atm, so tanks have to deal with being targeted for blame since it is really easy to point out when a tank is failing.

  14. #314
    Dreadlord OGXanos's Avatar
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    The immediate taking up of arms here by dps and healers shows that 1) this statement is right, 2) just how far the MMOC community has degraded. The official forums are nicer and more understanding these days.

    For the record I'm a tank. I've played a tank since I started in Vanilla, I've run/co-run mutliple guilds and countless raid groups. I know how the game works, I know how to play my class and have at least a working understanding of your class in a raid. I currently have a mix of Flex, normal and warforged gear, as well as my capes/metas. If I que up as a tank, I know the fight, If i don't know the fight I don't que up. I'll go watch a video and then try it as DPS in LFR first to see it. That said even when something goes wrong to cause a wipe that isn't the tanks fault, I've always seen them blamed first. No exceptions. I'm not a special snowflake rather I'm an average player at best, but I'm not going to willingly subject myself to be the doormat of 23/24 other people. I'm here to get gear and valor just like them. Thats why 99% of the time, I don't que as a tank for LFR. So yes, be nice to your tanks. I'll sit and wait on another tank to take the abuse when the group has been bunch of jerks/tools rather than switch spec from dps every single time.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I don't do LFR and I am not one of those "see everything because I pay $15 a month." I do not need to do LFR at all.



    That's pretty much what they are at this point. The only people who really do LFR do it for gear whether it be on their main or their alts. It is currently the only way you can get loot for Flex mode even unless you raided previous tiers. It's not like DS where it was actually optional loot.



    Most people who do LFR don't have the same time flex/normal players do to wipe. If they had that time in their schedule, they would probably be doing flex and/or normal. Please use some brains before making more incorrect assumptions, again.
    I just can't buy the time argument with flex as it is in 5.4, you can clear a wing in no time. Also if players were mostly in LFR because they were pressed for time they would make sure they weren't wiping over and over. Most of LFR is just bad players, very few there because of time constraints

  16. #316
    Epic! Miuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Most people who do LFR don't have the same time flex/normal players do to wipe.
    Yet they seem to have no issues waiting an hour or two for a tank while on queue.

    Curious.
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  17. #317
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xBryn View Post
    They should have made LFR much harder than it is, that way dps and healers couldn't get away with afk-ing. But that is what the system is like atm, so tanks have to deal with being targeted for blame since it is really easy to point out when a tank is failing.
    Then the good players won't do LFR because they can do Flex/Normal instead, and you'll have even more shit players that are unable to do the lowest common denominator stuff. Will only drive LFR into the ground more.

    I already have my opinion which is that LFR needs to be made drastically simpler, shorter (reduced trash more than there is), and needs to be converted into a 10-15 player format. It can replace 5 mans. Having fewer players (even if it is a higher tank/player ratio) means more room for players learning. Cesspools of concentrated (20+) bad players just drags the whole group down.

  18. #318
    Its not so much as "be nice to your tanks" as it is:

    Why the hell am I going to lead 24 other people around by the nose through this crap, 10 of whom are afking for every boss. To attempt to get a drop I have a 5% chance of getting, to get around 120g to pay for the 300+ in repairs, when I can just say the hell with it and run flex with people I know aren't morons?

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I don't do LFR and I am not one of those "see everything because I pay $15 a month." I do not need to do LFR at all.



    That's pretty much what they are at this point. The only people who really do LFR do it for gear whether it be on their main or their alts. It is currently the only way you can get loot for Flex mode even unless you raided previous tiers. It's not like DS where it was actually optional loot.



    Most people who do LFR don't have the same time flex/normal players do to wipe. If they had that time in their schedule, they would probably be doing flex and/or normal. Please use some brains before making more incorrect assumptions, again.
    Then whats your beef with LFR? Why use the system if all you are doing is complaining about it? Stick to Flex/Normal. I can argue that flex and normal can take the same or even less time than going through all the LFR wings.

    OT:

    The real reason there are not enough tanks is because too many people would rather dps. Then those exact people complain that there arent enough tanks, but really if they were so upset that there are not enough tanks, they would roll one themselves and do it. The players are the problem, and they make the problem worse by being very offensive and rude to people who actually roll tanks. I can see why people who play a tank wouldn't want to be in LFR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Yet they seem to have no issues waiting an hour or two for a tank while on queue.

    Curious.
    This is another great point as well.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Yet they seem to have no issues waiting an hour or two for a tank while on queue.

    Curious.
    Haven't seen an hour or two queue time, things must suck on your realm.

    But if I'm in a hurry, I'll queue as tank just for that quick queue (or, rather I did when I returned to the game and needed the shitty gear from LFR or Legendary items), and go through the mindless slog known as tanking LFR.

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