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  1. #461
    I gave up on tanking.

    1. You have to know the fights exactly without ever doing them before (videos only go so far)
    2. You have to have the gear without actually having the gear from downing the bosses a bunch of time before
    3. You have to contend with DPS/healer that expect you to have #1 and #2

    I have tanked on various toons on/off since Vanilla, including MT and raid leading 40 mans all the way to some MoP LFR.

    It's just not worth the headache.

    I've spent far, far too many nights in raid smacking a boss in the crotch while the rest of the raid actually gets to see the fight and participate in the fun mechanics.
    Last edited by heerobya; 2013-11-19 at 06:55 PM.

  2. #462
    Stood in the Fire Woa's Avatar
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    Be nice to your tanks? No. Tanks aren't special snow flakes. I dislike most tanks.

    When _I_ tank, it's balls to the wall, get this dungeon done and achieving the goal(more exp/JP for your time).

    When I dps, other thanks are slow, boring and generally retarded. So of course I'm going to pull for you if your dps and heals are falling asleep. It's not our fault if you have poor skills. Just AOE and keep running, it's not hard.

    In regards to LFR, this can be a headache but that's only because the player base is retarded now because blizzard allows it. You don't have to know the mechanics of a fight going in anymore. Just bang your keys while you watch tv. That's annoying for tanks because they have to actually do something. Even it out so tanks can stand there and bash on keys while watching tv like everyone else. That is the only thing that is unfair.
    Last edited by Woa; 2013-11-19 at 06:51 PM.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    And it wasnt progression. The requirements for Naz were well within that of timeless geared players. However, that assumes they are just average skill level, which many in LFR are not. Yea, it could have been nerfed, but even still groups are wiping over and over and refuse to kick bad players instead they just get determination high enough to literally faceroll.
    What you consider "average skill level" may not be what the "average skill level" actually is for the playerbase as a whole.

    Many players in LFR find challenging content unfun, god knows why they do LFR for gear since they will never go higher but to each their own. However, their unwillingness to fix it themselves is why LFR keeps getting worse and worse. If people had came to the forums pleading Blizzard to fix the vote kick system because the group cannot remove bad players who are wiping the group, Blizzard would have done that. But no, they wanted Blizzard to make it easier, because many ARE bad players who would be kicked.
    They do LFR to make their character better - much for the same reason that heroic mode has to offer better gear as a bribe to get people to do it too. If it was all about challenge, then heroic mode raiding wouldn't need to award better gear, would it?

    Wouldn't it be sweeter to shout from the mountaintops, "Hey newbs, look what I did while wearing the same crap you got! - Yeah, worship me!"

    50k dps is NOT TOO MUCH. If Blizzard wants players to get better they wont nerf the heck out of every fight when it takes mechanics. Yes, you use LFR to learn, but there is a point where it is just you being deadweight and leeching off those trying. Honestly even in timeless gear, sub 70k is just you being bad in some way. Even with just a 476 weapon.
    50k dps is low but there is not exactly an in-game method of measuring what is low and what is not. I've seen several heroic geared players in my LFRs that drastically skew the DPS spread for a boss. LFR gear is not going to let someone do 180k dps - which is what a lot of people seem to think it will do. My shadowpriest is pretty much at LFR level (534ish) and I average about 100-110, depending on the fight.

    I'm constantly outdone by folks in there with heroic gear. I wouldn't mind if higher gear tiers were scaled down to LFR level to be honest. Why you coming into my content and trying to be Superman?

    One thing that Blizzard learned during the Failaclysm expansion was that if you make it hard and keep it hard - there is a breaking point where 2.3 million subscribers will just leave.

    Remember GC's tirading blog post? I do.

    So do you consider calling to kick the bad dps being a douche? What about screaming at the other tank when you have asked 15 times for a taunt with no response. How about people just dying to avoidable mechanics, and wanting them kicked?

    There is being insulting, then there is hurting somebodies feelings. Im sorry if you are offended when I say you are bad and your dps sucks, but if you are the moonkin just using moonfire on GCD then you are bad and your dps sucks. If I go and start cursing at all the players who dont have 540+ gear for being terribad shitters, and saying "kick the scrubs under 200k" then I am being a douche. However, where to draw the line?
    Perhaps some further testing is needed with Proving Grounds before people can queue in 6.0?

    There are also other things to consider - like all the spell effects on the ground. It's gotten to the point where sometimes it's difficult to tell the good from the bad, especially if the good is overlaid on the bad.

    It's also not always the DPS fault. Been in several LFRs now where healers aren't dispelling the bad stuff. DPS can't dispel their own crap. I've died at least once lately to a debuff that I had for a solid 2 minutes that was never dispelled.
    Last edited by Raeln; 2013-11-19 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruya View Post
    What would you have them do? Bury their heads in the sand, and claim it's all puppy dogs and rainbows?

    Toxic environment is toxic. What they should do is put some sort of player rating system in place, and figure out how to prevent it from being gamed. The more toxic players get longer queues, whilst team players, and polite players get quicker queues ahead of the trolls.
    I'd prefer to queue the 'toxic' players together and make them suffer their own kind, rather than trying to artificially increase their queue times.
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  5. #465
    It's also really hard to jump back into tanking - if you level up getting tanking gear and run heroics for tanking gear and hop into expansion Tier 1 LFR in tanking gear, you're fine - but trying to "catch up" to the current tier with valor/justice or timeless isle etc. tanking gear is like impossible. You have to run the first couple of tiers multiple times and pray you get some good drops - and invest tons of $$ into gems/enchants.

    Where as any DPS or heals at 496 can hop into SoO and if you are a decent player, carry your weight.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Which should be changed. Healers and DPS need to be held responsible. A good chunk of dps dying/failing should mean a wipe, not that the top 4 will continue to carry the group. A healer completely not healing? Yea probably not going to end well with lack of raid cooldowns. Determination contributes to this issue, since groups would rather stack it then kick bad players.
    I have yet to be in a LFR where anyone was happy about gaining Determination stacks.

  7. #467
    Stood in the Fire Woa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    I'd prefer to queue the 'toxic' players together and make them suffer their own kind, rather than trying to artificially increase their queue times.
    The toxic players are generally the players who have played since vanilla and are tired of dumbasses messing up easy mechanics. I'm in this group. It's not hard to step out of fire. It's not hard to see your other tank is taking a ton of damage so you should taunt and it's not hard to step up the healing if you have a ton of mana and the other healers are doing all the work.

    Blizzard bred dumb players with LFR and passing out epics. This is what we get. Old players get angry and dumb people.

    I'd gladly go with that group. I'm sure they'd succeed more often than the other group of nice players who are also bad.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    So you don't get a tank plus a few healers dragging a fight on for an hour and refusing to wipe.
    There was a mountain of successful raids in WoW and out of WoW that never required an enrage timer.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    There was a mountain of successful raids in WoW and out of WoW that never required an enrage timer.
    Even in WoW most of them had some sort of mechanic that would make healer stacking or carrying on with a tank and small number of healers unworkable.
    I'd love to hear examples to the contrary because I'm struggling to think of any and I've raided since Karazhan.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Even in WoW most of them had some sort of mechanic that would make healer stacking or carrying on with a tank and small number of healers unworkable.
    I'd love to hear examples to the contrary because I'm struggling to think of any and I've raided since Karazhan.
    Many classic bosses did not have any sort of enrage mechanic because mana regeneration was a huge concern unlike today's raids where you have far more ways to recover or conserve mana. The bosses did not need enrage timers because healers would simply run out of mana and everyone would start to die. Bear in mind that back then, tanks had very few ways to mitigate damage outside of their major cooldowns and the button they pressed every 6 seconds so they wouldn't get one shot by a crit.

    TLDR: Healer mana was the enrage timer back then.
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  11. #471
    Yeah, I'm sorry but tanking is a fucking joke now. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls as a warrior with only fucking Sunder Armor to 3 for threat, and kids nowadays are complaining because the ONE mechanic tanks have aka TAUNT, is too difficult? Please be fucking quiet.

    For example, Misery dropped after we got Rook to 78 or 75% whatever, and after it one shot like 4 people, tank goes "I didn't know I had to pick that up." If you're a tank, you pick everything up. You don't need to watch a video, read a strat, do some stretches beforehand to know that. Sorry.

    The REASON no one wants to tank isn't because people aren't nice to them. It's because tanks need to man up 24/7 to lead the raid, because tbh they have nothing else to do. Their "rotation" isn't even a factor, they don't have to keep their eyes glued to Grid to heal, all they gotta do is tank.

    Sorry, no remorse for garbage tanks.

  12. #472
    The Patient
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    Problem I find with tanks, most tanks if they are well geared and are good, they have an attitude. If they are undergeared, things take SO much longer than they should... and they get defensive (no pun intended). Also I find people don't have much regard for tanks right now. In 5 mans, the dps just pull whatever they feel like then bitch when they die that the tank didn't do his or her job. Others just ignore the tanks and essentially solo the place (like what happened last night). High end dps don't have the patience for a new tank looking to gear up because they pull threat then bitch to high hell that they pulled threat and calling the others to kick him from group.

    In my battle group, it's worse. If I do a 5 man or LFR, guaranteed more than 50% of the party or raid does not speak english. Trying to guide people who refuse to speak, read or follow an ounce of direction because of choice, language barriers or ignorance, makes it SO hard to get anything down. So often when the tanks are from Brazil or Latin America, people just squat on the tanks and pretend he's not even there. It's easier that way sometimes unfortunately.

  13. #473
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    I'm yet to tank anything in MoP, but in Cata/wotlk/TBC I didn't really mind if the DPS pulled. Made things fast-paced, which I enjoy.

    Gearing my Paladin for Protection now, to tank LFR and Flex. Looking forward to the experience...!

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but tanking is a fucking joke now. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls as a warrior with only fucking Sunder Armor to 3 for threat, and kids nowadays are complaining because the ONE mechanic tanks have aka TAUNT, is too difficult? Please be fucking quiet.

    For example, Misery dropped after we got Rook to 78 or 75% whatever, and after it one shot like 4 people, tank goes "I didn't know I had to pick that up." If you're a tank, you pick everything up. You don't need to watch a video, read a strat, do some stretches beforehand to know that. Sorry.

    The REASON no one wants to tank isn't because people aren't nice to them. It's because tanks need to man up 24/7 to lead the raid, because tbh they have nothing else to do. Their "rotation" isn't even a factor, they don't have to keep their eyes glued to Grid to heal, all they gotta do is tank.

    Sorry, no remorse for garbage tanks.
    Tanking is considerably more complicated now than it was in TBC. The only difficult part of tanking Shattered halls as a warrior tank was a distinct lack of any meaningful AoE (lolthunderclap) so it was a frantic RSI inducing tab/sunder mess. That and the Timer/Execution thing so you had to storm through to get your extra badge.

  15. #475
    Bloodsail Admiral Invictus9001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Yes, it's very true. There was a poll recently asking the tanks if they tanked LFR - 85% said they wouldn't, and about 40% said it was because of the other players.
    Abso.FOCKING.Lutely! I am off-spec Blood with my DK, and there is no way in Hell that I will tank a random LFR group. Too much douchebaggery flung in the direction of tanks to make dealing with THAT role in a random LFR group worthwhile. I have zero problem tanking a dungeon or raid when in the presence of people I KNOW and can TRUST to have their heads someplace other than up their asses. Yet, I'd rather suffer hour-long wait-times as a DPS than insta-que as a Tank.
    Last edited by Invictus9001; 2013-11-19 at 07:33 PM.

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  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    Abso.FOCKING.Lutely! I am off-spec Blood with my DK, and there is no way in Hell that I will tank a random LFR group. Too much douchebaggery flung in the direction of tanks to make dealing with THAT role in a random LFR group worthwhile. I have zero problem tanking a dungeon or raid when in the presence of people I KNOW and can TRUST to have their heads someplace other than up their asses. Yet, I'd rather suffer hour-long wait-times as a DPS than insta-que as a Tank.
    Meh, I have a Blood offspec, too with no tanking gear. If I need a quick queue I'll hop in as a tank, or if the tank in there is a complete moron(which is saying a lot, since even a trained monkey throwing feces at the screen can typically tank LFR) I'll go Blood and tell him to just step aside.

    That said, I don't tank them because tanking is a boring monkey's job in LFR. It has nothing to do with treatment for me, I've never had anyone complain or criticize my tanking in LFR.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Woa View Post
    The toxic players are generally the players who have played since vanilla and are tired of dumbasses messing up easy mechanics.
    No, the toxic players are assholes, some of whom have played since vanilla. But, they're just regular assholes. Plenty of people have played since vanilla and are not assholes.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    No, the toxic players are assholes, some of whom have played since vanilla. But, they're just regular assholes. Plenty of people have played since vanilla and are not assholes.
    Special assholes?

    NO!

    Regular assholes!

    heh

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkles View Post
    Tanking is considerably more complicated now than it was in TBC.
    Source: Either doesn't tank now or didn't tank in TBC.

    Seriously, what's tanking now? You can't possibly ever lose threat. You do unreal DPS compared to the old days and every one of your abilities hits like umpteen things so there's almost never a need to swap targets.

    Pump & dump is the name of the game now. Don't stand in shit (everyone has to do that). Taunt when DBM tells you to taunt.

    You're delusional if you think tanking is harder now than at ANY point in the game's history.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    Source: Either doesn't tank now or didn't tank in TBC.

    Seriously, what's tanking now? You can't possibly ever lose threat. You do unreal DPS compared to the old days and every one of your abilities hits like umpteen things so there's almost never a need to swap targets.

    Pump & dump is the name of the game now. Don't stand in shit (everyone has to do that). Taunt when DBM tells you to taunt.

    You're delusional if you think tanking is harder now than at ANY point in the game's history.
    Tanking in the games history: Get threat. AFK.

    Now, you have active mitigation, which whilst it's still piss easy to do, it's considerably more `difficult` than anything prior.

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