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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Which should be changed. Healers and DPS need to be held responsible. A good chunk of dps dying/failing should mean a wipe, not that the top 4 will continue to carry the group. A healer completely not healing? Yea probably not going to end well with lack of raid cooldowns. Determination contributes to this issue, since groups would rather stack it then kick bad players.
    I have yet to be in a LFR where anyone was happy about gaining Determination stacks.

  2. #462
    Mechagnome Woa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    I'd prefer to queue the 'toxic' players together and make them suffer their own kind, rather than trying to artificially increase their queue times.
    The toxic players are generally the players who have played since vanilla and are tired of dumbasses messing up easy mechanics. I'm in this group. It's not hard to step out of fire. It's not hard to see your other tank is taking a ton of damage so you should taunt and it's not hard to step up the healing if you have a ton of mana and the other healers are doing all the work.

    Blizzard bred dumb players with LFR and passing out epics. This is what we get. Old players get angry and dumb people.

    I'd gladly go with that group. I'm sure they'd succeed more often than the other group of nice players who are also bad.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    So you don't get a tank plus a few healers dragging a fight on for an hour and refusing to wipe.
    There was a mountain of successful raids in WoW and out of WoW that never required an enrage timer.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    There was a mountain of successful raids in WoW and out of WoW that never required an enrage timer.
    Even in WoW most of them had some sort of mechanic that would make healer stacking or carrying on with a tank and small number of healers unworkable.
    I'd love to hear examples to the contrary because I'm struggling to think of any and I've raided since Karazhan.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Even in WoW most of them had some sort of mechanic that would make healer stacking or carrying on with a tank and small number of healers unworkable.
    I'd love to hear examples to the contrary because I'm struggling to think of any and I've raided since Karazhan.
    Many classic bosses did not have any sort of enrage mechanic because mana regeneration was a huge concern unlike today's raids where you have far more ways to recover or conserve mana. The bosses did not need enrage timers because healers would simply run out of mana and everyone would start to die. Bear in mind that back then, tanks had very few ways to mitigate damage outside of their major cooldowns and the button they pressed every 6 seconds so they wouldn't get one shot by a crit.

    TLDR: Healer mana was the enrage timer back then.

  6. #466
    Yeah, I'm sorry but tanking is a fucking joke now. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls as a warrior with only fucking Sunder Armor to 3 for threat, and kids nowadays are complaining because the ONE mechanic tanks have aka TAUNT, is too difficult? Please be fucking quiet.

    For example, Misery dropped after we got Rook to 78 or 75% whatever, and after it one shot like 4 people, tank goes "I didn't know I had to pick that up." If you're a tank, you pick everything up. You don't need to watch a video, read a strat, do some stretches beforehand to know that. Sorry.

    The REASON no one wants to tank isn't because people aren't nice to them. It's because tanks need to man up 24/7 to lead the raid, because tbh they have nothing else to do. Their "rotation" isn't even a factor, they don't have to keep their eyes glued to Grid to heal, all they gotta do is tank.

    Sorry, no remorse for garbage tanks.

  7. #467
    Mechagnome Xenyatta's Avatar
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    Problem I find with tanks, most tanks if they are well geared and are good, they have an attitude. If they are undergeared, things take SO much longer than they should... and they get defensive (no pun intended). Also I find people don't have much regard for tanks right now. In 5 mans, the dps just pull whatever they feel like then bitch when they die that the tank didn't do his or her job. Others just ignore the tanks and essentially solo the place (like what happened last night). High end dps don't have the patience for a new tank looking to gear up because they pull threat then bitch to high hell that they pulled threat and calling the others to kick him from group.

    In my battle group, it's worse. If I do a 5 man or LFR, guaranteed more than 50% of the party or raid does not speak english. Trying to guide people who refuse to speak, read or follow an ounce of direction because of choice, language barriers or ignorance, makes it SO hard to get anything down. So often when the tanks are from Brazil or Latin America, people just squat on the tanks and pretend he's not even there. It's easier that way sometimes unfortunately.

  8. #468
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    I'm yet to tank anything in MoP, but in Cata/wotlk/TBC I didn't really mind if the DPS pulled. Made things fast-paced, which I enjoy.

    Gearing my Paladin for Protection now, to tank LFR and Flex. Looking forward to the experience...!
    Hi

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but tanking is a fucking joke now. I learned to tank in Shattered Halls as a warrior with only fucking Sunder Armor to 3 for threat, and kids nowadays are complaining because the ONE mechanic tanks have aka TAUNT, is too difficult? Please be fucking quiet.

    For example, Misery dropped after we got Rook to 78 or 75% whatever, and after it one shot like 4 people, tank goes "I didn't know I had to pick that up." If you're a tank, you pick everything up. You don't need to watch a video, read a strat, do some stretches beforehand to know that. Sorry.

    The REASON no one wants to tank isn't because people aren't nice to them. It's because tanks need to man up 24/7 to lead the raid, because tbh they have nothing else to do. Their "rotation" isn't even a factor, they don't have to keep their eyes glued to Grid to heal, all they gotta do is tank.

    Sorry, no remorse for garbage tanks.
    Tanking is considerably more complicated now than it was in TBC. The only difficult part of tanking Shattered halls as a warrior tank was a distinct lack of any meaningful AoE (lolthunderclap) so it was a frantic RSI inducing tab/sunder mess. That and the Timer/Execution thing so you had to storm through to get your extra badge.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Yes, it's very true. There was a poll recently asking the tanks if they tanked LFR - 85% said they wouldn't, and about 40% said it was because of the other players.
    Abso.FOCKING.Lutely! I am off-spec Blood with my DK, and there is no way in Hell that I will tank a random LFR group. Too much douchebaggery flung in the direction of tanks to make dealing with THAT role in a random LFR group worthwhile. I have zero problem tanking a dungeon or raid when in the presence of people I KNOW and can TRUST to have their heads someplace other than up their asses. Yet, I'd rather suffer hour-long wait-times as a DPS than insta-que as a Tank.
    Last edited by Invictus9001; 2013-11-19 at 07:33 PM.

    #FlightIsImportant

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus9001 View Post
    Abso.FOCKING.Lutely! I am off-spec Blood with my DK, and there is no way in Hell that I will tank a random LFR group. Too much douchebaggery flung in the direction of tanks to make dealing with THAT role in a random LFR group worthwhile. I have zero problem tanking a dungeon or raid when in the presence of people I KNOW and can TRUST to have their heads someplace other than up their asses. Yet, I'd rather suffer hour-long wait-times as a DPS than insta-que as a Tank.
    Meh, I have a Blood offspec, too with no tanking gear. If I need a quick queue I'll hop in as a tank, or if the tank in there is a complete moron(which is saying a lot, since even a trained monkey throwing feces at the screen can typically tank LFR) I'll go Blood and tell him to just step aside.

    That said, I don't tank them because tanking is a boring monkey's job in LFR. It has nothing to do with treatment for me, I've never had anyone complain or criticize my tanking in LFR.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Woa View Post
    The toxic players are generally the players who have played since vanilla and are tired of dumbasses messing up easy mechanics.
    No, the toxic players are assholes, some of whom have played since vanilla. But, they're just regular assholes. Plenty of people have played since vanilla and are not assholes.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    No, the toxic players are assholes, some of whom have played since vanilla. But, they're just regular assholes. Plenty of people have played since vanilla and are not assholes.
    Special assholes?

    NO!

    Regular assholes!

    heh

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkles View Post
    Tanking is considerably more complicated now than it was in TBC.
    Source: Either doesn't tank now or didn't tank in TBC.

    Seriously, what's tanking now? You can't possibly ever lose threat. You do unreal DPS compared to the old days and every one of your abilities hits like umpteen things so there's almost never a need to swap targets.

    Pump & dump is the name of the game now. Don't stand in shit (everyone has to do that). Taunt when DBM tells you to taunt.

    You're delusional if you think tanking is harder now than at ANY point in the game's history.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    Source: Either doesn't tank now or didn't tank in TBC.

    Seriously, what's tanking now? You can't possibly ever lose threat. You do unreal DPS compared to the old days and every one of your abilities hits like umpteen things so there's almost never a need to swap targets.

    Pump & dump is the name of the game now. Don't stand in shit (everyone has to do that). Taunt when DBM tells you to taunt.

    You're delusional if you think tanking is harder now than at ANY point in the game's history.
    Tanking in the games history: Get threat. AFK.

    Now, you have active mitigation, which whilst it's still piss easy to do, it's considerably more `difficult` than anything prior.

  16. #476
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    Source: Either doesn't tank now or didn't tank in TBC.

    Seriously, what's tanking now? You can't possibly ever lose threat. You do unreal DPS compared to the old days and every one of your abilities hits like umpteen things so there's almost never a need to swap targets.

    Pump & dump is the name of the game now. Don't stand in shit (everyone has to do that). Taunt when DBM tells you to taunt.

    You're delusional if you think tanking is harder now than at ANY point in the game's history.
    did you completely miss the entire active mitigation revolution?
    .


    When someone asks you if you're a god, YOU SAY 'YES'!

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    Tanking in the games history: Get threat. AFK.

    Now, you have active mitigation, which whilst it's still piss easy to do, it's considerably more `difficult` than anything prior.
    Maybe post Firelands. But threat was something you worked to maintain prior to that.

  18. #478
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    did you completely miss the entire active mitigation revolution?
    Pressing an extra button every 6 seconds isn't exactly what I'd call engaging game play.

    Or do you think so?

  19. #479
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Pressing an extra button every 6 seconds isn't exactly what I'd call engaging game play.

    Or do you think so?

    and 69696969 was?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    did you completely miss the entire active mitigation revolution?
    The difference isn't the amount of buttons you press, the difference is the overall awareness needed.

    Previously it was necessary to know what kind of threat you had on different targets, who else was targetting what, what your OT was doing (oh, and remember threat management on fights like Gruul?) as well as planning your pickup on new adds, etc..

    Nowadays, you have the same amount of buttons, but there's far less to really think about. Since mobs pretty much stick to you now, it's moving occasionally, taunting occasionally and keeping your AM up.

    So, while you may or may not have more buttons to press and "things to do", tanking is a much more introvertive style of play than it used to be. I think that's why tanks who started tanking back in the BC era (I didn't tank in Vanilla, so no real foundation for that) and enjoyed that hectic, heightened awareness type tanking find the new tanking model (i.e. threat is no longer an issue) a little lacking.

    Is that a bad thing? Maybe for those who enjoy the hectic type tanking like myself, but for the community as a whole it's probably better how it is now.

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