Subtlety Cooldown questions

[LA Rogue]

When playing sub I've been opeing w/ garrote, ambush, ambush, slice and dice, SD/SB (should i hemo next with everything up? or proceed w/ dumping evicerates?>)

So after that opening I'm monitoring my find weakness buff along with my Master of subtletly buff after it wears off I nomally get a vanish off to keep it rolling and immediatly prep. By the time these two buff are over SHadow dance is up again.

So the question is for me when you are in or just pop a shadow dance and are going to town during lust and say 1 of your trinkets procs. Do you vanish to get that 10 percent extra dmg from MOS? Is it worth it? Or do you wait for that find weakness duration to end?

^^what i've been doing is using vanish in this situation... Prolly cause i like those big evicerates crits... So selfish^^

And also how many Ambushes are yall guys getting during a killing spree? And also how many evicerates are yall getting in every find weakness would you say?

^^new to sub but I'd say i get 4 to 5 or so. Evicerates prolly 4.^^

[snubb]

if your tanks are doing a countdown, you can premed before the pull to go into the fight with 2 combo points to snd with before you open. This does require some coordination as you'll need to premed and leave stealth before or as the countdown spots if you want your prepot, b/c of the 6 second cd on stealth.

You want to use your vanishes to keep up fw, so after your fw ends from your first dance, you'd use your first vanish and your prep. After your 2nd dance's fw ends, you'd use your 2nd vanish, etc etc. This is just what i've found and will depend on if you have assurance of consequence, wihtout it, you might do 2 vanishes before your 2nd dance, but with that trinket, you basically keep find weakness up for the first minute to minute and a half of the fight.

Pooling combo points is good before vanish/dance, but remember that wasting combo points and/or energy is not good, so if you have premed up, don't go into dance or vanish with more than 5 combo points or you'll waste them. I personally find it more important to try to pool energy before you dance, and when doing so your combo points will fill naturally from HaT, a full energy bar means you'll be able to get 3 ambushes during vanish (assuming glyph) and a lot more during dance, idk the number off hand.

But yea to answer your question don't use vanish during fw, its a waste, and it means you'll have lots more time with no fw between dances.

Some of this info might be wrong but its worked for me, i have a few top 10 ranks as sub on heroic content.

[LA Rogue]

Well yes we do countdowns for sure and I premed every chance I can. I've talked w/ some other subs on my server and they told me that they blow all there load at the begining to maximize evicerate dmg dumps w/ sd/sb, kinda makes sence to put it on cd. I've been using this approach and have had some decent results. But what you've said here pretty much want to maximize find weakness buff over burst. I guess it depends on what you need at that moment. But on a long drawn out fight It'd be better to link them together if possible. I like to get that vanish so i can do it again later. But your approach seems to work. I've noticed on some normal mode parses that I did well bascially because I had a vanish and or shadow dance off cd ready to go and the boss is fixin to die. I might try the steady appoach like you do. Thx man. I have no heroic rankings yet, I need heroic weapons. Here's me so far. I'm not fully optimized I know cause I'm going back and fourth between sub combat. So its a constant battle w/ reforges to meet both specs needs. Luckily agi haste is great for both and either crit and mastery are decent for both.

I want to post a link to my wow heroes but it wont let me... fail Larogue/us/malganis wow heroes check me out plz let me know what you think. Thx man

[snubb]

the difference isn't going to be that great, but i don't think having 10% more damage on a couple eviscerates is worth losing a few seconds extra of FW uptime. Big crits are fun, but your top damage is still going to be your auto-attack, so maxing fw uptime is the way to go imo.

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i should say that i do also clip fw uptime, but only on the intial pull. Generally I'll premed > snd > garrote > ambush > ambush > rupture (evisc might be better here, idk) > hemo > sdance. That first dance is about with a lot of time left on fw, but i think there is definitely preferable since you'll have all trinkets and prepot rolling at this point.

[LA Rogue]

Hrm intresting opener. So you roll with a 2 point snd? I guess that will pull you through that duration of MOS/FW. Makes sense. I have had a few parses where evicerate is my number one dmg, but i believe this is defeinatly due to crits and maybe various boss mechanics. Say for instance nourashen. Or maybe Pride.

I've also been trying to maximize dmg on belt on heroic siegecrafter. I have a normal weapon and am pulling 14.2 mil between two belt phases. I'm really trying to up this. I've been using redirect w/ 7 or so points and blowing shadow dance everytime. Sometimes even vanish to get that extra burst, and if i feel i need more and a trinket procs i'll go ahead and use shadow blades. Any tips on this? I mean we are progressing on this boss atm so 2nd belt is as far as i've been. Extremely fun and challenging fight though.

I felt sub fits this fights playstyle due to 40 second belt timers. SHadow dance and cloak are precisely that thanks to hw AOC.

[shadowboy]

Whenever I've played sub I always did a premed > SnD > normal opener (I haven't played sub in MoP yet so I can't say what I'd do nowadays, I did play sub some in cata).

To expound upon what snubb said, premed does NOT add to anticipation charges (or at least it didn't when I was testing that out on MoP beta--I don't know if that still holds true), so never use premeditation at 4 combo points.

[Fluorescent0]

Hrm intresting opener. So you roll with a 2 point snd? I guess that will pull you through that duration of MOS/FW. Makes sense. I have had a few parses where evicerate is my number one dmg, but i believe this is defeinatly due to crits and maybe various boss mechanics. Say for instance nourashen. Or maybe Pride.

I've also been trying to maximize dmg on belt on heroic siegecrafter. I have a normal weapon and am pulling 14.2 mil between two belt phases. I'm really trying to up this. I've been using redirect w/ 7 or so points and blowing shadow dance everytime. Sometimes even vanish to get that extra burst, and if i feel i need more and a trinket procs i'll go ahead and use shadow blades. Any tips on this? I mean we are progressing on this boss atm so 2nd belt is as far as i've been. Extremely fun and challenging fight though.

I felt sub fits this fights playstyle due to 40 second belt timers. SHadow dance and cloak are precisely that thanks to hw AOC.

I'd go combat as far as belt damage is concerned. Here's one of our kills, I did 41m over 4 missles (the fifth one I did was a mine), and the other rogue did 35m I believe over the course of 4 missles too, with the other one(s?) being mine/laser.

[LA Rogue]

Its not letting me view your post on the wowlogs but I believe you. And if you did 40 mil on 4 turrets thats ridiculous... like wtf are doing drugs? Whats your Ilvl? I have two 570 rogues in guild that do roughly the same dmg as me on the belt and they are combat. I play sub w/ crappy refroging ect. 567 ilvl and do 7 mil average.10 mil? Is this correct? If so man your my hero for sure. Thats awesome man. Well acutally wait.... I know how your doing it..... You are the first belt team. Your first time up is w/ lust... Thats an unfair assesment. Next week start on belt two. Cause our ret pulls like 13mil or better on first belt completely obliterating that poor thing 572 ilvl... The other rogues dont even bother blowing anything. I'm pretty sure you blow your load up there. Taking a wild guess. I want to see your log, but im almost 100 percent certain your team 1 for belt groups. I'm team 2/4/6 ect. The 1/3/5 group gets a significant advantage as far as lookin good on the logs. I mean if iwas up there first playing sub I"d destroy that damn thing... Give me like 2 others and it'd be anihilated for sure. Way over 10 mil I bet. But if your first belt that is cheesed I'm sry to say. The lust advantage is skewed. Maybe I shoulda been more specific.

[Fluorescent0]

Nope, I'm doing even belts. 2/4/6/8/10. Our other rogue is doing the odd ones. As for gear and everything, my armory link is in my sig.

[mongoose6]

Sub cool downs vary from fight to fight. On a perfect patchwerk style fight you would want to maximize FW uptime by only clipping the debuff so that the ambush from your next ShD or vanish is affected by the previous FW. There are situations though where you may want to hold off on using a cooldown or you may want to chain them together a bit closer. It all depends on your raid strat, the nature of the fight, and you're current gear.

Examples:
Sha of Pride, You may want to clip your FW sooner so you can get greater effect from the pride buff

Blackfuse, you may want to hold off on using a vanish on blackfuse so that it's up for the belt

P.S. You don't need heroic weapons to rank on heroic fights

[LA Rogue]

I'm sry, guess I'm dumb I tryed to view your logs. Ill try again later. I'm sure its posssible to rank without heroic weapons. This might depend on your strats your guild runs. I've ranked on one heroic the first week, but I've already been trumped it seems. Practice makes perfect.
Scope some of my logs. I definately need to work on uptimes. Larogue//us malganis//

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I'm going to hammer down and try to go for highest uptime of find weakness as possible. Sometimes it wierd though, Evicerate sometimes has been my highest in dmg. Anyhow heres some logs. There pretty old. I was prolly 550ish here or so.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Mal'Ganis/larogue/

The following week on jug i pulled 342... unfortunatletly it didnt account for my melee dmg which was 21 percent.. Woulda been like an 8 rank... Pretty much the only ranks I care about are heroic ones... So far I earned one but it disappeared..