Garrosh Normal 10 Man - Help needed!

[Deleted]

Hey there fellow raiders,

Last sunday night we met Garrosh and after we were able to kill everything quite smooth & quick I thought it wouldn't be that much of an issue to get him down. However it seems that I was a bit wrong on that thought since we wiped 2 hours on sundaynight & 4 hours of last nights raid. Now there has been discussion within the guild about what's the cause of wiping. The one officer says it's the lack of the dps, the other one says it's about not handling mechanics right so we're kinda stuck on where it goes wrong.

So here is a full description of our team & how we handle the encounter;

* Monk Brewmaster Tank; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thchi/advanced
* Death Knight Blood Tank; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndian/advanced
* Paladin Holy Healer; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...icsin/advanced
* Druid Restoration Druid; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dilnl/advanced
* Mage Frost DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...artex/advanced
* Warlock Destruction DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Fysix/advanced
* Priest Shadow DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Lumea/advanced
* Hunter Survival DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...istex/advanced
* Death Knight Frost DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...istex/advanced
* Monk Windwalker DPS; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AF/advanced

In phase we start with tanking the boss in the middle of the room while we have two markers (A & B) at the sides of the throne. When there is a desecrate weapon we move from A to B while killing the weapon & the Farseer Wolf Rider (2 spawns total during phase 1) and out hunter is on engineer duty (we kill adds with Iron Star when they are brought to 50%).We use cooldowns (Offensive) in the first intermission Phase as soon as we can have dps on Garrosh and make sure to pick the orbs up if possible.

In phase two we move towards the throne (Ranged distance) with the boss being tanked in the middle again. After the weapon spawn we move in melee range so we can get mind controlled people out as soon as possible and after that we move back in max range to the left of the previous dropped weapon to get ready for Whirlwind Corruption (Use defensive cooldowns) and the next weapon. Rinse & repeat where we currently do not kill the weapons but just keep moving around the room with clumping the weapons up in the best way we can (Boss gets moved around with the ranged). We had Garrosh close to 40% and some times on 35% as soon as the second intermission starts but on the few tries we tended to kill the weapons Garrosh was still around 45%. (Which is to high I think)
Rinse & Repeat on Intermission Phase.

After second intermission we get to max range again for the weapon, stack in melee and spread out asap for the adds spawn. We kill the first wave of adds while the second gets kited by our monk tank in which most cases we have the boss down at 10% so the third phase starts. As soon as the third wave starts is where the trouble begins - we can't use Timewarp yet (Still have the 1 minute/40 second debuff) And basicly at the first wave of abilties we have the deaths. Can anyone see (Specificly on the longer tries) where we go wrong and if the dps is good enough? Our best try was 11/12% in phase three which unfortantly didn't get logged since I had a disconnect and forgot to turn logs on again.

Logs; http://worldoflogs.com/reports/e1i5qqptlequ24hh/

Any help or advice is welcome to improve our performance, tactwise or Individual Dps/Hps/Tank wise!

[Deleted]

Save timewarp for the end phase. There's is no real reason to use it at the start if it's not back for the last phase. Pull it as soon as Garrosh moves to the middle and begins his transformation. The damage dealt before he heals still counts as he won't heal up as much once the transformation is done.

[Defaulty]

We went through the same pain. Clear 13/14 normal like its no big deal and then Garrosh is the hardest thing for us.

P1, minmal AoE damage, more boss damage. Your Lock+tank should be able to handle the AoE. Everyone else should only be killing the Weapon and Wolf (some AoE helps) but its not optimal due to iron star killing the adds all for you.

P2, Right out of transition have RDPS+Healers stack on the throne. Good job now you can ignore that weapon for the rest of the encounter (1 less weapon you have to DPS). IMMEDIATELY after the weapon is thrown EVERYONE runs to the boss for MCs. You do this every time for MCs. Once MCs are taken care of everyone runs to waypoint A.

Whirlwind happens, Weapon is thrown, everyone runs to Boss for MCs. This is where you throw dots on the weapon and continue pewpew'ing the boss until MCs come out. Once MCs are done, run to waypoint B. Whirlwind, weapon, Run to boss for MCs phase, throw dots on weapon. Rinse and repeat until Transitional phase happens.


Your dps should aim to have the boss down to sub 45% before the first transitional phase in P2! If you can do this, you have the DPS to kill this fight easily. After a few attempts your DPS will get into the clockwork of things and can put the boss down to sub 30% before the first transitional phase in P2. IT IS POSSIBLE to not have a single Empowered Whirlwind in Phase 2 if your dps is boss as fuck with this strat.


P3: You just do exactly what you do before, except with the other side of the room. NOTHING is different except you kill adds on the first set and ignore the second. If you can do P2 you can do P3. Use lust at the RP shit. He gains 25% or so health so if youre executing at the RP you could possibly start P3 with 25% health instead of 35%.

(tip: Adds are stunable, slowable... do that.)

Remember, more boss damage = easier game. Just need to coordinate your dps correctly (:

[zuke8675309]

Save timewarp for the end phase. There's is no real reason to use it at the start if it's not back for the last phase. Pull it as soon as Garrosh moves to the middle and begins his transformation. The damage dealt before he heals still counts as he won't heal up as much once the transformation is done.

^ This.

Also, imho the person who thinks your dps is low is correct. Your shadowpriest especially is underperforming their gear. I know the hunter is killing the siege engineers, but I think they can be higher too.

Not to be left out, your healers need to step it up as well. The druid used Tranq only once per attempt and some attempts not at all. He used Ironbark 18 times over the course of 16 pulls and yet it's on a 1 minute CD. He used Treeform 6 times all night long.
Same thing for the Paladin and Avenging Wrath and Divine Favor they were usually used once per attempt. To make matters worse, the paladin never used Guardian of Ancient Kings all night and used Hand of Sacrifice only 3 times.

Your raid would probably be mad as hell if dps players never used their dps cooldowns. Don't expect to kill progression bosses if healers don't use their healing cooldowns.

[Deleted]

Looking at the death logs, most of the raid is dying to the Empowered Whirling Corruption in P3 so I'd say healing is a bigger issue than your DPS(we killed him the first time with less overall DPS than you guys have) This is possibly due to lack of healing CD's being used during the Empowered Whirling Corruption, lack of Lust in P3, or both.

[Deleted]

We went through the same pain. Clear 13/14 normal like its no big deal and then Garrosh is the hardest thing for us.

P1, minmal AoE damage, more boss damage. Your Lock+tank should be able to handle the AoE. Everyone else should only be killing the Weapon and Wolf (some AoE helps) but its not optimal due to iron star killing the adds all for you.

P2, Right out of transition have RDPS+Healers stack on the throne. Good job now you can ignore that weapon for the rest of the encounter (1 less weapon you have to DPS). IMMEDIATELY after the weapon is thrown EVERYONE runs to the boss for MCs. You do this every time for MCs. Once MCs are taken care of everyone runs to waypoint A.

Whirlwind happens, Weapon is thrown, everyone runs to Boss for MCs. This is where you throw dots on the weapon and continue pewpew'ing the boss until MCs come out. Once MCs are done, run to waypoint B. Whirlwind, weapon, Run to boss for MCs phase, throw dots on weapon. Rinse and repeat until Transitional phase happens.


Your dps should aim to have the boss down to sub 45% before the first transitional phase in P2! If you can do this, you have the DPS to kill this fight easily. After a few attempts your DPS will get into the clockwork of things and can put the boss down to sub 30% before the first transitional phase in P2. IT IS POSSIBLE to not have a single Empowered Whirlwind in Phase 2 if your dps is boss as fuck with this strat.


P3: You just do exactly what you do before, except with the other side of the room. NOTHING is different except you kill adds on the first set and ignore the second. If you can do P2 you can do P3. Use lust at the RP shit. He gains 25% or so health so if youre executing at the RP you could possibly start P3 with 25% health instead of 35%.

(tip: Adds are stunable, slowable... do that.)

Remember, more boss damage = easier game. Just need to coordinate your dps correctly (:

Thanks for these tips, the weapon specificly on the throne is very nice to know for the next time we go there.
Are/Were you guys using Timewarp in Both Phase I & 3 in the end or just phase 3?

^ This.

Also, imho the person who thinks your dps is low is correct. Your shadowpriest especially is underperforming their gear. I know the hunter is killing the siege engineers, but I think they can be higher too.

Not to be left out, your healers need to step it up as well. The druid used Tranq only once per attempt and some attempts not at all. He used Ironbark 18 times over the course of 16 pulls and yet it's on a 1 minute CD. He used Treeform 6 times all night long.
Same thing for the Paladin and Avenging Wrath and Divine Favor they were usually used once per attempt. To make matters worse, the paladin never used Guardian of Ancient Kings all night and used Hand of Sacrifice only 3 times.

Your raid would probably be mad as hell if dps players never used their dps cooldowns. Don't expect to kill progression bosses if healers don't use their healing cooldowns.

Thanks for this - I had no idea that the healing cooldowns were used so poorly in such an important phase of survivability!

Looking at the death logs, most of the raid is dying to the Empowered Whirling Corruption in P3 so I'd say healing is a bigger issue than your DPS(we killed him the first time with less overall DPS than you guys have) This is possibly due to lack of healing CD's being used during the Empowered Whirling Corruption, lack of Lust in P3, or both.

Aye, I already had some thought there was going something wrong in Phase 3 that made us lose control over the fight. Cheers as well ^^

[Sleivert]

As pointed out earlier, healers need to use CD's more. On to where the trouble lies, phase 3. First of all, save Hero for this and pop it as soon as he starts with RP. Not using in P1 may mean one more set of adds, but that's no biggie. Now, the main part of P3 is not freaking out, this leads to bad weapon placement and bad MC handeling. First of all make sure you have all Healer and Tank CD's up for this one. I suggest having boss + tank + melee in the middle and ranged as close as possible to a wall. Desecrate comes in, they move into melee, handle MC (a tip here is having people going on the people in their group), then move out to the wall again and await whirlwind.

You should aim for having the boss go down before a third whirlwind, so whatever Cooldown rotation you have for these, make sure that the ones who are usually used for number 3 are used on 1 and 2 aswell. Suggestion is that you use one dk shield for each of the two. Devotion aura and Pala healer CD's on the first one, tranq on the second one (druid might have to get hit by 1 add spawn here, consider moving or have pala use sacrifice on him). Make sure ranged stay as close to the wall during the whirlwind as to place the desecrate nicely, then stack up on boss again to deal with MC's. Ranged goes back to the wall after, spreads for whirlwind, place desecrate, stack up for MC, finish them off.

At this point the boss should be close to dead so just stack now and NUKE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE BOSS! If you reach a third whirlwind, have people use everything defensive they have, and make sure to spread out still, and nuke even more on boss. If the boss isn't dead by now your dps need to pull it togheter, simple as that.


EDIT: Looking at your dps uptime i do wonder what you guys are doing wrong. You have 1 attempt that last for 8+ min where everyone is on around 95% uptime, the rest of the time you have plenty of people around 91-92%. This is not good. In my guild averaged 97,61% uptime on our last kill. Adding togheter two of your guys tries, you had 92,16%. Quick math here, we had 5,45% more uptime. Took your dps and divided by 100 to find what 1% of your dps was, and it was close to 15 . Take that number times 5,45 (the % uptime in differnce from us and you guys and the number you should be aiming for) it becomes 82,5k. So, with your low uptime you are loosing about 80k dps EACH SECOND! For the duration of the fight, which in most cases are around 9 and a half minute, you could be getting an extra 47 MILLION dmg into the boss with having better uptime.

How to fix this uptime issue? Not sure really, maybe someone better at reading logs than me can find out or you just have to tell your dps to focus more.

[Defaulty]

Thanks for these tips, the weapon specificly on the throne is very nice to know for the next time we go there.
Are/Were you guys using Timewarp in Both Phase I & 3 in the end or just phase 3?

P3, the fight lasted only 9 minutes.

for reference of how it looks if you're coordinating correctly: http://www.twitch.tv/outerfuel/c/3210120

[Deleted]

As pointed out earlier, healers need to use CD's more. On to where the trouble lies, phase 3. First of all, save Hero for this and pop it as soon as he starts with RP. Not using in P1 may mean one more set of adds, but that's no biggie. Now, the main part of P3 is not freaking out, this leads to bad weapon placement and bad MC handeling. First of all make sure you have all Healer and Tank CD's up for this one. I suggest having boss + tank + melee in the middle and ranged as close as possible to a wall. Desecrate comes in, they move into melee, handle MC (a tip here is having people going on the people in their group), then move out to the wall again and await whirlwind.

You should aim for having the boss go down before a third whirlwind, so whatever Cooldown rotation you have for these, make sure that the ones who are usually used for number 3 are used on 1 and 2 aswell. Suggestion is that you use one dk shield for each of the two. Devotion aura and Pala healer CD's on the first one, tranq on the second one (druid might have to get hit by 1 add spawn here, consider moving or have pala use sacrifice on him). Make sure ranged stay as close to the wall during the whirlwind as to place the desecrate nicely, then stack up on boss again to deal with MC's. Ranged goes back to the wall after, spreads for whirlwind, place desecrate, stack up for MC, finish them off.

At this point the boss should be close to dead so just stack now and NUKE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE BOSS! If you reach a third whirlwind, have people use everything defensive they have, and make sure to spread out still, and nuke even more on boss. If the boss isn't dead by now your dps need to pull it togheter, simple as that.


EDIT: Looking at your dps uptime i do wonder what you guys are doing wrong. You have 1 attempt that last for 8+ min where everyone is on around 95% uptime, the rest of the time you have plenty of people around 91-92%. This is not good. In my guild averaged 97,61% uptime on our last kill. Adding togheter two of your guys tries, you had 92,16%. Quick math here, we had 5,45% more uptime. Took your dps and divided by 100 to find what 1% of your dps was, and it was close to 15 . Take that number times 5,45 (the % uptime in differnce from us and you guys and the number you should be aiming for) it becomes 82,5k. So, with your low uptime you are loosing about 80k dps EACH SECOND! For the duration of the fight, which in most cases are around 9 and a half minute, you could be getting an extra 47 MILLION dmg into the boss with having better uptime.

How to fix this uptime issue? Not sure really, maybe someone better at reading logs than me can find out or you just have to tell your dps to focus more.

Thank you for this, lots of tips and advice on how we improve the next time on Garrosh. I really appreciate the effort you took for this reply!

The uptime issue is something I would like to get some more information on as well since there is quite a difference between your uptime & our uptime, any advice/info would be great for me!

P3, the fight lasted only 9 minutes.

for reference of how it looks if you're coordinating correctly: http://www.twitch.tv/outerfuel/c/3210120

Thanks as well, Ill have a look at your guilds video for some visual differences we could try.

[damz2969]

Minimize movement in phase 2, there is no need for the ranged and healers to move close to the boss ever. We move between two marks and kill the weapons similar to phase 1, however you can also just ignore the weapons and move around more.

Maximize your dmg on the boss as he should preferably be below 35% when entering the 2nd intermission. We only assigned our boomkin and me (warlock) to kill the weapons. Aim to only have 1 set of adds before pushing him into Phase 3. If your dps is lacking a bit it is perfectly doable with 2 sets of adds aswell, but be careful not to push him into phase 3 right as you get a new wave.

As soon as phase 3 starts, all the adds should be dead and you should stack up wherever you want the next weapon to spawn, pop BL and burn as much as possible. When weapon spawn move together in a group, then deal with the MC and then the boss will whirl followed by another weapon. This set of adds you should just have your offtank pick up and kite. Then you will have another MC and possibly he will start whirling. But he should die at this point. Make sure you deal with mind controls efficiently and use proper raid CDs to keep everyone alive.

[Deleted]

Dafuq is going on with your Paladin heal? Nearly 20K Spirit is waaayyyy too much. As said he is barely using his heal CDs

[Deleted]

Thank you all for the great tips & advice, we went Garrosh again today (since we cleared 13/14 on Thursday) and it took us 2 pulls to kill him.
The first weapon of Phase 2 on the throne, saving Hero for Phase 3 & Not standing in pools at empowered whirlwinds helped us a ton!