1. #1
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
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    Time to clear each tier after it's launched statistics

    My GoogleFu is failing me. I know I have seen stats in the past on how long it has taken for a tier to be cleared after it was opened. I know in the past I have seen the numbers crunched to gauge player interested around clear times. One of my 1.0 MC rockstar buddies is trying to claim however though, mind you he hasn't played since BC, that MC was the hardest raiding. My wowhead link to list of abilities (4 for rag) vs (24 for H garry) hasn't seem to convince him. I wanted to also show him how long it takes people to clear a tier these days.
    The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.

  2. #2
    Was MC harder and had more mechanics ? no
    Did it take longer than T16 to complete ? yes

    Patch 5.4 went live on 10.9.13 and the world first garrosh heroic kill was on the 29.9.13 so it took the asians exactly 19 days to clear T16

    WoW was released on the 23.11.04 and the world first raggi 40 kill was on 25.04.05 so go figure

  3. #3
    Show him a video of world first garrosh/paragons/siege compared to a vanilla rag video. Even without experiencing the content anyone with eyes can see which boss requires more "skill". Rag required a raid of 20 people with fire resist gear to carry the 20 afk people.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEojnxf0fE


    Time it takes to clear isn't the deciding factor on how difficult a boss is. You don't see the gear gating now that existed then (fire, frost, shadow, nature resist sets) which was one of many things that contributed to how long a final boss kill took. Take note of bosses that were bugged (truly bugged) and how long that contributed to the boss staying up (or how the boss fell over the week the hotfix went in).

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ed-the-longest
    Last edited by Octa; 2014-09-24 at 04:40 PM.
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  4. #4
    No empirical argument can challenge nostalgia.

  5. #5
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    With the original raid model MC was comparable to flex, the higher tiers being comparable to the higher difficulties in a current tier for MoP.

    As others mentioned the time taken to kill bosses pre-wrath was not really indicative of it's difficulty, as gear gating was standard and bugs making bosses unkillable could remain entire patches.

    The bosses had less abilities, but then so did the players. Back in the old days it was less about the amount of mechanics - but the punishment for not executing them correctly, which was generally more severe. That along with classes also having less utility (that makes it easier - not harder), different mana mechanics causing healing rotations, downranking spells, etc.

    People who excel at different things could legitimately find vanilla raiding harder, since doing something wrong was more often a wipe than a setback towards the kill. To use an example I recently attempted soloing morchok 25man as a shaman - now for those familiar with the fight, it is not realistically possible to soak the stomp damage as a non-tank at all on 25m. This meant that I had to position him specifically and move out of every stomp (every 15~ seconds). that meant I couldn't use a movement speed increase either, so I simply had to make the run out on time every time.

    Mechanically this is a simple concept and it's only dealing with one ability. The issue was if I was half a second slow at times I was dead. If I faced backwards and he melee'd 0.2 seconds before and dazed me I was dead. Doing this boss originally that didn't happen (ignoring that he was easy if you had enough healers), as you had a full soak team, on hc 2 full soak teams. If a few people died it was manageable anyway and this mechanic still wouldn't kill you.
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  6. #6
    You should not look at the difficulty of each boss by comparing the two, but rather comparing the difficulty "at the time it was current". I would not say that rag 40 was harder at the time than heroic garrosh, but I would say that kael was by far the hardest boss in wow WHEN THE CONTENT WAS CURRENT. This is my opinion after experiencing heroic Rag prenerf, sinestra, and Heroic Lei'shen as well.

  7. #7
    The problem OP is that you're not comparing apples to apples. You're trying to say that if Ragnaros was a new boss in SoO, would it be harder than other T16 bosses.

    That's clearly a monumentally unfair comparison. Classes are different, scaling is different, experience is different, resources are different, and the list goes on and on.

    It's simply vacuous to compare the two in this way. 4 mechanics vs 24 is not a meaningful comparison. The game was totally different then. It was, for most intents and purposes a different game. The game evolves over time and in 10 years you can bet it's a different beast than it was at launch.

    Likewise, time to clear is meaningless also. Of course it took guilds longer to do Rag than H Garrosh. You're comparing a first tier to a last tier. Did you also factor in the difference in leveling times from 1-60 and 85-90? Nope and that matters too. My first 60 took 18 days to hit max level. Granted I was not focused on getting max level (see above: it was a different game; I had another toon who i leveled to 60 in about 6 days IIRC), but you can now level a monk in a day or two with rest and heirlooms. And that's 1-90, 50% more levels! in 1/18th the time.
    Last edited by Varabently; 2014-09-24 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Typos

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomorepuns View Post
    You should not look at the difficulty of each boss by comparing the two, but rather comparing the difficulty "at the time it was current". I would not say that rag 40 was harder at the time than heroic garrosh, but I would say that kael was by far the hardest boss in wow WHEN THE CONTENT WAS CURRENT. This is my opinion after experiencing heroic Rag prenerf, sinestra, and Heroic Lei'shen as well.
    Kael was impossible at current content though. Because of the servants not dropping aggro the first time they died, so healers would get insane aggro. It was killed 10 days after BT was released when the bug was fixed.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomorepuns View Post
    You should not look at the difficulty of each boss by comparing the two, but rather comparing the difficulty "at the time it was current". I would not say that rag 40 was harder at the time than heroic garrosh, but I would say that kael was by far the hardest boss in wow WHEN THE CONTENT WAS CURRENT. This is my opinion after experiencing heroic Rag prenerf, sinestra, and Heroic Lei'shen as well.
    I recall Kael being difficult, but I don't know if he was anymore difficult than the other bosses of the time like Vashj or the last boss in Hyjal or even the last few Sunwell bosses. But as you say, it's challenging to think about them in this way. When they were current, they FELT harder, but objectively they seem much simpler. When we're talking about Vanilla, gear was much harder to obtain (40 people vs 25 sharing 3 drops per boss typically). The game seemed much more gear dependent; clearly it wasn't mechanic-driven like current content.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Honestly to get a real judge of MC we'd have to measure it from the first day people stepped foot inside. With leveling and attunements (like Onyxia) it stalled people from even walking inside.
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