Thread: World pvp state

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by davecrew View Post
    the old way was much worse! I remember doing dailies on the isle of thunder in full pvp gear because i couldn't use my pve gear for fear of being ganked.
    This is how it should work! It is normal. I was also mining in full pvp gear and just laughing at gangers who tries something . But now I have to grind pve gear to be able to mine safely

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post

    Any PvE player with a slight idea will destroy you, they can obliterate you with crits and specs like boomkin can heal for a shit load. Dueled a BM Hunter on ptr who had full PvE gear whilst I was full Grevious, he killed me in less than 5 seconds. 2 crits combined with normal damage took the majority of my health.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

  3. #63
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Yes, that's why the forums are filled with complaints about it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Yes, that's why the forums are filled with complaints about it.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Oh man, someone should pay you to do this all day!
    Are you my mommy?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    When the game had its best world pvp state it was when PvE gear was king and the the ultimate gear for PvP. Dont blame Blizzard for trying to get the game back to when World pvp was awesome. Fully support them in the effort to make it.
    Araine, this is possibly the most idiotic response I've seen. Back then, in world PvP it didn't matter what geared you had. For any proof, check videos by vurtne, or laintime (Warrior wearing a dress pwning 3 at the time, alone. A warrior. Alone. With a dress. Vs 3). The fact remains that in that time PvE gear was better than PvP gear for either WPvP or BGs but you could defeat anyone with full Naxx/AQ gear in a dress!

    The statement in bold is the absolute, maximum truth. Back then you depended on trinkets, on-use items, engineering trinkets and bombs, potions, flasks, consumables, world items, environment, and whatever more. This is what made Vanilla World PvP epic, the fact that you could defeat anyone at will by out-played.

    Today, here's how it works: Few days ago I was on my shadow priest with full season PvP gear and I found a warlock in the timeless isle. I don't use hp/% on the bars, I like to keep them clean and just mouse over if I need too. He was alliance so I didn't thought twice and started to attack. I chained my fear, horror, silence, even MC to not allow him to cast and reset DR on fear. Meanwhile I had 100% uptime of my dots, mind blast on CD and used my shadowfied.
    What happened? Me, a wotlk glad (Yeh I know, flame on), an arena master shadow priest, took about 30% of his HP, only to then mouse-over his HP bar and see he had 930k. I will never forget this number. 930k unbuffed! He then, after my chain control, backpaddled into his position, landed some random dots, and shot 2 chaos bolt at me. I got critted, and I died, in about 4 secs of actions from him.

    Just, lol.
    I aint responding here anymore btw, I know how flamed this will get. Some will agree, some wont, I can deal with it.
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, relentless, deadly.. and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  7. #67
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    WPvP is different, its not meant to be a venue for people with 50k resi to just steamroll in, hence why you get a lot more natural resi now. WPvP is actually about having a balance, between PvP and PvE gear, I generally keep pieces of PvP gear slotted during WPvP, with the rest being filled by PvE gear, or if im struggling ill switch between my gear sets, PvP for more survivability and PvE for more dmg.

    Its about being smart. Also I have no entitlement whatsoever, so take your shit flinging arrogance elsewhere.
    There is no current balance right now. Blizzard fucked up the item levels and PvP gear itemization this expansion, and decided that they would rather ruin world pvp than 'to force' PvE players to do BGs and arenas for gear that is just as good/better than what LFR offers.

    I always see how people on mmo-champion talks about how effort should be rewarded. That heroic raiders should be overpowered in PvP, that LFR raiders should have a chance in PvP, that PvP'ers should work for their gold income with dailies etc if they want to earn gold. But when it comes to the fact that PvP players cant do shit in WoW except for pressing 'queue' in the pvp tab, despite the fact that they may have spend countless of hours trying to obtain said gear, no one seems to mind. The bias is astonishing...

    What many of you, who have never decided to only do PvP-related things in WoW for a long period of time, don't get is the fact that World PvP for a PvP'er is like doing old raids for a PvE'er. Some times it is meant to be extrodinarily easy when you group up with friends and pick a fight with unskilled players. And other times you are really testing your limits when you are greatly outnumbered or facing better players. I've seen people whining about how the item squish will affect them ever since it was posted in a blog, but technically the item squish has already been implemented in the most cruel way possible for PvPers.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2013-11-19 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

    Pretty sure no one here is saying they don't want pvp to be skill-based anymore. But i digress, you have some reading to do.
    You must think you are so original linking this crap after every post. I have read a lot about logic and philosophy in like, books, you know (google "book") so thank you for the internet 5-word explanation for internet jocks who want to appear sophisticated but only care to actually read out of cheesy sites catering to 90% forum trolls' needs to so badly want to appear original.

    As to my points, ironically unlike mine, your response fell pretty much for the exact same fallacies you so proudly linked. I guess mindless forum linking =/= thinking but in order to fly, a bird needs wings. Go figure this out.

    Also, this will be my last reply to you as my policy is to not get engaged in polemics with forum trolls.

    Finally, if you still doubt my comments re: wow, I invite you to try my buddy's lock in a duel - 850K hp full heroic gear, he never actually did PvP in his entire life, he only presses 3 buttons as if fighting a mob... it doesn't matter with 100K+ conflags does it? Then talk about skill in a game you clearly don't understand.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Hegemonia View Post
    You must think you are so original linking this crap after every post. I have read a lot about logic and philosophy in like, books, you know (google "book") so thank you for the internet 5-word explanation for internet jocks who want to appear sophisticated but only care to actually read out of cheesy sites catering to 90% forum trolls' needs to so badly want to appear original.

    As to my points, ironically unlike mine, your response fell pretty much for the exact same fallacies you so proudly linked. I guess mindless forum linking =/= thinking but in order to fly, a bird needs wings. Go figure this out.

    Also, this will be my last reply to you as my policy is to not get engaged in polemics with forum trolls.

    Finally, if you still doubt my comments re: wow, I invite you to try my buddy's lock in a duel - 850K hp full heroic gear, he never actually did PvP in his entire life, he only presses 3 buttons as if fighting a mob... it doesn't matter with 100K+ conflags does it? Then talk about skill in a game you clearly don't understand.
    I did not attack your person or character in an attempt to discredit your arguement. I pointed out its logical flaws. Nor did i commit the fallacy fallacy, i didn't assume your claim was false due to it being poorly argued or it containing logical faults your entire premise was derived from a strawman which the link i provided did an adequate job explaining why such reasoning is flawed.

    I'm not quite sure how i commited ad-hominem by merely pointing out your fallacies. Nor do i see a point where i created a strawman if you would point that out i would openly apologize and correct myself. I question how i mindlessly linked the correct links to correspond to your logical fallacies.

    You don't know of i think i'm original or not. You don't know that i am doing this in an attempt to appear sophisticated. I also question your reading of "logic and philosophy" due to the ignorance and ad-hominem attacks in which you posted this.

    I re-direct you to the ad-hominem link i provided earlier which will help you better engage in arguments in the future.

    Edit: This is also relevant here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
    Last edited by Coraulten; 2013-11-19 at 05:44 PM. Reason: spelling and such

  10. #70
    ITT: Angry people getting served by Coraulten.
    [email protected] | 16gb RAM | Asus Geforce GTX 970 OC | 120gb SSD | 1tb HDD
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  11. #71
    This will be fixed by item squish anyway.

    PvE gear has always had the slight edge in ilevel/power curve - it just was never an issue until this expansion because the natural advantage given to PvE players could be easily overcome by a skilled player (the average ~2000 arena player is far, far, far better than the average heroic raider.)

    Now that heroic SoO gear turns even the world's worst keyboard turning DK/Warlock/Warrior/Hunter/whatever into a 900,000 HP unkillable battleship that slowly keyboard turns around one shotting anyone in range with chaos bolt? Skill kinda goes out the window.

    It'll be better next expansion when the gap is small enough to overcome with skill.

  12. #72
    you know maybe the core of the game we all love is tainted by commercial interests that were trying to make improvements to increase the playerbase. and maybe they went a little too far making a cute fuzzy panda to play and cute fuzzy dungeons to sprint through. maybe they just can't see the erosion of the things that made it so popular. pvp players work really hard to dominate and it holds a lot of clout when you are good. if you remove this from the equation and just say well this person can automatically beat this person. you have lost 100% of the clout and while it may be fun to 1 shot ppl on the island, it really isn't any fun because there's no question of weather you will win or not. no competition. just cute and fuzzy and it makes me sick

  13. #73
    Mechagnome Deathpath's Avatar
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    I think this problem can be fixed by removing base line resilience and put it back on pvp gear and buff pvp power.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpath View Post
    I think this problem can be fixed by removing base line resilience and put it back on pvp gear and buff pvp power.
    I wouldn't say completely remove base resil, maybe cut it in half and add it to pvp gear.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpath View Post
    I think this problem can be fixed by removing base line resilience and put it back on pvp gear and buff pvp power.
    That would fix this problem. But then you would return to having new pvp'rs having an even greater disadvantage starting out. I for one would like more people to pvp not less.

    With how little WPvP happens its amazing how strongly some people feel about it. I think mainly people are saying world pvp but what they mean is the censure on the isle. When the censure goes away people will stop talking so much about world pvp balance.

  16. #76
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanKafka View Post
    This will be fixed by item squish anyway.

    PvE gear has always had the slight edge in ilevel/power curve - it just was never an issue until this expansion because the natural advantage given to PvE players could be easily overcome by a skilled player (the average ~2000 arena player is far, far, far better than the average heroic raider.)

    Now that heroic SoO gear turns even the world's worst keyboard turning DK/Warlock/Warrior/Hunter/whatever into a 900,000 HP unkillable battleship that slowly keyboard turns around one shotting anyone in range with chaos bolt? Skill kinda goes out the window.

    It'll be better next expansion when the gap is small enough to overcome with skill.
    It was never an issue beforehand because of baseline resilience (and no resilience on PvP gear). Well that and because Blizzard wanted to gimp PvP gear so that even outdated PvE gear would beat out PvP gear in a PvE setting, and of course the fact that there have been 3x13ilvl sets of PvE gear every tier (honestly I don't know, I stopped PvE'ing a year ago), whereas PvP gear progression have only had 1x13ilvl sets added every tier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reveries1 View Post
    That would fix this problem. But then you would return to having new pvp'rs having an even greater disadvantage starting out. I for one would like more people to pvp not less.

    With how little WPvP happens its amazing how strongly some people feel about it. I think mainly people are saying world pvp but what they mean is the censure on the isle. When the censure goes away people will stop talking so much about world pvp balance.
    Baseline resilience should only work in instanced PvP.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2013-11-19 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #77
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Yea that's one thing I haven't understood... why the hell does blizzard have different ilvls between pve and pvp gear? That's idiotic. All you have to do is put stats on PvP gear that are only effective in PvP situations. IMO, blizz needs to do a complete overhaul of PvP... they won't because they don't want to put extra effort into the game, but they need to make 2 functions for each ability. There's a PvE function and PvP function, they mechanic would be able to determine which is what... if you attack a player, the ability will register the PvP part of the ability and if you walk into a raid, the ability should be able to tell that you're attacking a mob/boss. Not only would this allow for complete balancing of abilities, but there would be less PvP vs PvE threads since neither one would affect the other.

    On top of that, blizzard needs to fix PvP power so that it can be registered in World PvP, not just arena/bg's. It's a big fucking issue, REALLY BIG when someone wearing PvP gear has the disadvantage against someone wearing PvE gear. Next, blizzard needs to change the ilvl so that both PvP gear and Tier gear is on the same ilvl. If they do that, then they can scrap the crappy feature they have which downscales gear in PvP situations... that way world PvP is more balanced since everyone has the same ilvl gear.

    The fact that this is an issue and isn't resolved is one of many reasons why i'll never come back to the game. Blizzard has proven that they put shitty priorities on things that aren't even relevant to the game. While the game has issues, blizzard believes the best interest of the game is to create features like pet battles? The game is never going to return to its old style, so why should i care if blizzard wants to drive the game head first into the ground?
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  18. #78
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    By using Coraulten's logic, nothing is valid because nothing counts as evidence. Don't worry guys, it's all fine because he linked a word.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    By using Coraulten's logic, nothing is valid because nothing counts as evidence. Don't worry guys, it's all fine because he linked a word.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

  20. #80
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    That's not misrepresenting, that's spot on to what you're saying.

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