The statement in bold is the absolute, maximum truth. Back then you depended on trinkets, on-use items, engineering trinkets and bombs, potions, flasks, consumables, world items, environment, and whatever more. This is what made Vanilla World PvP epic, the fact that you could defeat anyone at will by out-played.
Today, here's how it works: Few days ago I was on my shadow priest with full season PvP gear and I found a warlock in the timeless isle. I don't use hp/% on the bars, I like to keep them clean and just mouse over if I need too. He was alliance so I didn't thought twice and started to attack. I chained my fear, horror, silence, even MC to not allow him to cast and reset DR on fear. Meanwhile I had 100% uptime of my dots, mind blast on CD and used my shadowfied.
What happened? Me, a wotlk glad (Yeh I know, flame on), an arena master shadow priest, took about 30% of his HP, only to then mouse-over his HP bar and see he had 930k. I will never forget this number. 930k unbuffed! He then, after my chain control, backpaddled into his position, landed some random dots, and shot 2 chaos bolt at me. I got critted, and I died, in about 4 secs of actions from him.
I aint responding here anymore btw, I know how flamed this will get. Some will agree, some wont, I can deal with it.
World PvP and how it stands/standed.
World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!
I always see how people on mmo-champion talks about how effort should be rewarded. That heroic raiders should be overpowered in PvP, that LFR raiders should have a chance in PvP, that PvP'ers should work for their gold income with dailies etc if they want to earn gold. But when it comes to the fact that PvP players cant do shit in WoW except for pressing 'queue' in the pvp tab, despite the fact that they may have spend countless of hours trying to obtain said gear, no one seems to mind. The bias is astonishing...
What many of you, who have never decided to only do PvP-related things in WoW for a long period of time, don't get is the fact that World PvP for a PvP'er is like doing old raids for a PvE'er. Some times it is meant to be extrodinarily easy when you group up with friends and pick a fight with unskilled players. And other times you are really testing your limits when you are greatly outnumbered or facing better players. I've seen people whining about how the item squish will affect them ever since it was posted in a blog, but technically the item squish has already been implemented in the most cruel way possible for PvPers.
Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2013-11-19 at 03:16 PM.
As to my points, ironically unlike mine, your response fell pretty much for the exact same fallacies you so proudly linked. I guess mindless forum linking =/= thinking but in order to fly, a bird needs wings. Go figure this out.
Also, this will be my last reply to you as my policy is to not get engaged in polemics with forum trolls.
Finally, if you still doubt my comments re: wow, I invite you to try my buddy's lock in a duel - 850K hp full heroic gear, he never actually did PvP in his entire life, he only presses 3 buttons as if fighting a mob... it doesn't matter with 100K+ conflags does it? Then talk about skill in a game you clearly don't understand.
I'm not quite sure how i commited ad-hominem by merely pointing out your fallacies. Nor do i see a point where i created a strawman if you would point that out i would openly apologize and correct myself. I question how i mindlessly linked the correct links to correspond to your logical fallacies.
You don't know of i think i'm original or not. You don't know that i am doing this in an attempt to appear sophisticated. I also question your reading of "logic and philosophy" due to the ignorance and ad-hominem attacks in which you posted this.
I re-direct you to the ad-hominem link i provided earlier which will help you better engage in arguments in the future.
Edit: This is also relevant here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
Last edited by Coraulten; 2013-11-19 at 05:44 PM. Reason: spelling and such
This will be fixed by item squish anyway.
PvE gear has always had the slight edge in ilevel/power curve - it just was never an issue until this expansion because the natural advantage given to PvE players could be easily overcome by a skilled player (the average ~2000 arena player is far, far, far better than the average heroic raider.)
Now that heroic SoO gear turns even the world's worst keyboard turning DK/Warlock/Warrior/Hunter/whatever into a 900,000 HP unkillable battleship that slowly keyboard turns around one shotting anyone in range with chaos bolt? Skill kinda goes out the window.
It'll be better next expansion when the gap is small enough to overcome with skill.
you know maybe the core of the game we all love is tainted by commercial interests that were trying to make improvements to increase the playerbase. and maybe they went a little too far making a cute fuzzy panda to play and cute fuzzy dungeons to sprint through. maybe they just can't see the erosion of the things that made it so popular. pvp players work really hard to dominate and it holds a lot of clout when you are good. if you remove this from the equation and just say well this person can automatically beat this person. you have lost 100% of the clout and while it may be fun to 1 shot ppl on the island, it really isn't any fun because there's no question of weather you will win or not. no competition. just cute and fuzzy and it makes me sick
I think this problem can be fixed by removing base line resilience and put it back on pvp gear and buff pvp power.
With how little WPvP happens its amazing how strongly some people feel about it. I think mainly people are saying world pvp but what they mean is the censure on the isle. When the censure goes away people will stop talking so much about world pvp balance.
Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2013-11-19 at 09:27 PM.
Yea that's one thing I haven't understood... why the hell does blizzard have different ilvls between pve and pvp gear? That's idiotic. All you have to do is put stats on PvP gear that are only effective in PvP situations. IMO, blizz needs to do a complete overhaul of PvP... they won't because they don't want to put extra effort into the game, but they need to make 2 functions for each ability. There's a PvE function and PvP function, they mechanic would be able to determine which is what... if you attack a player, the ability will register the PvP part of the ability and if you walk into a raid, the ability should be able to tell that you're attacking a mob/boss. Not only would this allow for complete balancing of abilities, but there would be less PvP vs PvE threads since neither one would affect the other.
On top of that, blizzard needs to fix PvP power so that it can be registered in World PvP, not just arena/bg's. It's a big fucking issue, REALLY BIG when someone wearing PvP gear has the disadvantage against someone wearing PvE gear. Next, blizzard needs to change the ilvl so that both PvP gear and Tier gear is on the same ilvl. If they do that, then they can scrap the crappy feature they have which downscales gear in PvP situations... that way world PvP is more balanced since everyone has the same ilvl gear.
The fact that this is an issue and isn't resolved is one of many reasons why i'll never come back to the game. Blizzard has proven that they put shitty priorities on things that aren't even relevant to the game. While the game has issues, blizzard believes the best interest of the game is to create features like pet battles? The game is never going to return to its old style, so why should i care if blizzard wants to drive the game head first into the ground?
By using Coraulten's logic, nothing is valid because nothing counts as evidence. Don't worry guys, it's all fine because he linked a word.