Thread: World pvp state

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    That's not misrepresenting, that's spot on to what you're saying.
    Please point out where i said nothing is valid evidence.

  2. #82
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Please point out where i said nothing is valid evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    You realise that the majority of complaints have sparked from the top PvPers? That isn't opinion, it's the fact that they can't touch lower skilled players just because of gear. That is evidence, if you say it isn't (which you definitely implied so don't try to go back) then what does count as evidence? (my point in question)
    Last edited by TJ; 2013-11-19 at 09:22 PM. Reason: typo

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD View Post
    No. Why can't the be exactly the same?

    It should be about skill, and not about gear type. It wasn't nice when PvP gear was better in world PvP, and it isn't nice when PvE gear is better in world PvP. Equal ilvls plz. Resilience is (and should be) character baseline anyway.
    Worst suggestion ever. As long as PvP gear has the same stats as PvE gear of the same item level, PvP gear has to be of lower item level than PvE gear. Currently the gap is just far too large because of item level inflation (LFR, Flex, Normal, Normal Warforged, Heroic, Heroic Warforged) and ridiculous scaling. PvPers are stuck at 522 item level and normal mode gear is 561 when upgraded.

    If PvP gear was equal to normal mode gear, a large amount of raiders would feel forced to cap Conquest each week to get pretty much guaranteed loot, in some cases even being able to pick gear with perfect secondary stats.

    A better solution would be to lower item level jumps between PvE gear qualities, scrap thunderforged/warforged (it was mostly an incentive to raid 25 man anyway, which will be scrapped in WoD), reduce proc strength and proc rates for PvE trinkets on players and possibly add bonusses to PvP gear (notably weapons and trinkets) that reduce damage taken when NOT in Arena/BG and increase damage to players when NOT in Arena/BG. The latter probably wouldn't be needed if the other options are done right.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    You realise that the majority of complaints have sparked from the top PvPers? That isn't opinion, it's the fact that they can't touch lower skilled players just because of gear. That is evidence, if you say it isn't (which you definitely implied so don't try to go back) then what does count as evidence? (my point in question)
    So these top pvpers.. Where are they complaining about this? I would like to think they understand that heroic pve gear is better than their gear in the world.

    The world is PVE with PVP encounters. Maybe they should just disable the use of pvp gear outside of instanced pvp.

  5. #85
    I don't understand, you claimed that because "alot" of people had the same opinion as you that somehow made it true. which is the logical fallacy--bandwagon. And you translated that into me not accepting anything as evidence?

    But now you made another logical fallacy-- https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

    Just because an authoritative figure says something does not make it true.
    Last edited by Coraulten; 2013-11-19 at 09:33 PM. Reason: Quote got messed up? @ TJ

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reveries1 View Post
    So these top pvpers.. Where are they complaining about this? I would like to think they understand that heroic pve gear is better than their gear in the world.

    The world is PVE with PVP encounters. Maybe they should just disable the use of pvp gear outside of instanced pvp.
    Because it makes gear triumph over skill. Whilst it doesn't affect them directly in arena, they still acknowledged the stupidity of the change and agreed it should be different. Hell, before you get the wrong assumption, it doesn't affect me either. If anything, it helps me atm since I'm gearing for PvE. But that doesn't make it any different because the point still stands.

    What they should do is remove base resilience from outside arena and BG's and remove the huge gap between the gear, which I think someone mentioned. Then you'd have it similar to how it was in Wrath, PvE gear was more of something used for big crits and not an instawin factor. If you then switched to PvE gear you would become a glass cannon, aka you swap survivability for more damage instead of becoming a boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I don't understand, you claimed that because "alot" of people had the same opinion as you that somehow made it true. which is the logical fallacy--bandwagon. And you translated that into me not accepting anything as evidence?

    But now you made another logical fallacy-- https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

    Just because an authoritative figure says something does not make it true.
    I looked through the list and knew you'd link that when I said top PvPers, which makes me return to my original question of what counts as evidence then? Because apparently, you think nothing does.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Because it makes gear triumph over skill. Whilst it doesn't affect them directly in arena, they still acknowledged the stupidity of the change and agreed it should be different. Hell, before you get the wrong assumption, it doesn't affect me either. If anything, it helps me atm since I'm gearing for PvE. But that doesn't make it any different because the point still stands.

    What they should do is remove base resilience from outside arena and BG's and remove the huge gap between the gear, which I think someone mentioned. Then you'd have it similar to how it was in Wrath, PvE gear was more of something used for big crits and not an instawin factor. If you then switched to PvE gear you would become a glass cannon, aka you swap survivability for more damage instead of becoming a boss.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I looked through the list and knew you'd link that when I said top PvPers, which makes me return to my original question of what counts as evidence then? Because apparently, you think nothing does.
    Why would you intentionally use a fallacy? I can't answer you what is valid evidence, evidence needs to be presented in order for it to be evaluated.

  8. #88
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Why would you intentionally use a fallacy? I can't answer you what is valid evidence, evidence needs to be presented in order for it to be evaluated.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P5DyyAYHZo

    With added jokes you can clearly see the point he is making, and don't say he has no idea, he does act like an idiot but he is a good player. He mentions "PvE geared player's spells hitting 3 times as hard as mine".

  9. #89
    TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.


    Please don't post just to call trolling. ~Snuggli
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-11-20 at 02:53 PM.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hegemonia View Post
    TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.
    I wouldn't point to trolling with everything, I just think he is incredibly arrogant and genuinely thinks he is correct. Either way, I think enough is enough ;> I'm out. Some evidence is there, he can look for more or see for himself :>

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P5DyyAYHZo

    With added jokes you can clearly see the point he is making, and don't say he has no idea, he does act like an idiot but he is a good player. He mentions "PvE geared player's spells hitting 3 times as hard as mine".
    There you go, this is much better than simply saying "Alot of people agree with me" or "majority of the high end pvpers agree with me"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    I wouldn't point to trolling with everything, I just think he is incredibly arrogant and genuinely thinks he is correct. Either way, I think enough is enough ;> I'm out. Some evidence is there, he can look for more or see for himself :>
    Pointing out logical faults in reasoning = arrogant? And i never even stated my position on the subject, i merely thought your reasoning was bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hegemonia View Post
    TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.
    Pointing out logical faults is being a troll?
    Last edited by Coraulten; 2013-11-19 at 10:55 PM.

  12. #92

  13. #93
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Guys, please, chill out, thank you.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Not biting ;D
    We were having a civil argument i don't understand why you have to start implying that i am trolling.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Hegemonia View Post
    TJ you are being trolled, don't feed the trolls.
    Calling people trolls cause they dont agree with your opinions is just childish, come on.

  16. #96
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    The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
    http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

    (I made this last night)

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
    http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

    (I made this last night)
    Zomg, l2p, etc etc etc etc hur durr.

  18. #98
    Do people not remember geared PvE shamans with sulfuras obliterating people in blackrock all day long back in Vanilla? World PvP has ALWAYS been dominated by geared raiders and the entire thing has never been anything more than a silly sidegame. Stop acting like it's ever been good or balanced or ever will be. It's not a focus for the dev team and it shouldn't be.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Do people not remember geared PvE shamans with sulfuras obliterating people in blackrock all day long back in Vanilla? World PvP has ALWAYS been dominated by geared raiders and the entire thing has never been anything more than a silly sidegame. Stop acting like it's ever been good or balanced or ever will be. It's not a focus for the dev team and it shouldn't be.
    Blizzard knew that was wrong, so they introduced Resilience. And now they are taking it away.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    The state of PvE vs PvP gear in WPvP:
    http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

    (I made this last night)
    You're on the timeless isle, he had about every buff from there + his own foodbuff + flask + prepot etc.

    Get some buffs yourself and you'll even out the score, and maybe fight back next time?

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