Thread: Why bash Cata?

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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    6. Dungeons. DUNGEONS WERE FUN. You needed some afford to complete stuff and when you finally completed them, you felt so good.
    .
    No. They weren't. Especially at the beginning, with retarded groups full of wrath babies that AOE'd everything.

    Fun after the massive nerfs?, bleh, maybe.

  2. #242
    In my experience, Cata was great on release. Every content patch and change they did after release to ease up on the difficulty, Dragon Soul and the ZA/ZG stuff was awful. The actual release content I found really enjoyable, everything afterwards = nope.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    No. They weren't. Especially at the beginning, with retarded groups full of wrath babies that AOE'd everything.

    Fun after the massive nerfs?, bleh, maybe.
    lol no, the dungeons were perfect before nerfs. People were complaining before they were even out of blues.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    lol no, the dungeons were perfect before nerfs.
    The judgment of the devs is that you are not correct. The dungeon design failed so badly they completely abandoned it.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #245
    This thread is terrible. Full of blanket subjective statements about how Cata is bad, and anyone daring to say Cata is better than MoP is going to inevitably get shit on.

    /facepalm

  6. #246
    Personally I just think that the X-Pacs lost quality ever since BC. Cata and MoP being the absolut downside of things. But so far the next one looks very promising.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    I would personally list it as the second worse, since so far every expansion has been worse to me than the one prior to it.
    And yet you still play........

    I am Rogue - Play Free Online Games

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The judgment of the devs is that you are not correct. The dungeon design failed so badly they completely abandoned it.
    Because they had to retard-proof them.

  9. #249
    A lot of your positives are negatives for me

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Because they had to retard-proof them.
    The early Cataclysm design was a serious mismatch to the customer population they actually had, and it poorly served Blizzard's business goals. While I'm sure it makes you feel better to disparage the segment of the customer base that didn't share your preferences, that sort of flaming doesn't serve any real constructive purpose, and isn't something Blizzard can or will pay much attention to.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  11. #251
    The fact that they ignored Quel'Thalas and the Draenei islands really upset me. And some comment some dev made made it even worse. "Would you rather have a new raid or Silvermoon updated?" It was stupid. Which would I prefer: a new raid that I'd only run a few times and never run again or have the place I've come to call home in WoW updated? Which would you choose?

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The early Cataclysm design was a serious mismatch to the customer population they actually had, and it poorly served Blizzard's business goals. While I'm sure it makes you feel better to disparage the segment of the customer base that didn't share your preferences, that sort of flaming doesn't serve any real constructive purpose, and isn't something Blizzard can or will pay much attention to.
    People got used to the simple wotlk dungeons you just aoe'd everything, and choked when you actually had to use CC.

    Is that Blizzards fault or the players? Its not like they removed CC's in wotlk.
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  13. #253
    Cata heroics weren't even that bad. What they were was a study in how you cannot go backwards in MMOs with regards to difficulty (or convenience, really).

    Some Wrath heroics were actually pretty mean at the start too. But as time went on, people got used to just steamrolling them with a level of gear that - previous to Wrath - wasn't as easily accessible to the majority of the playerbase. The transitions from Vanilla -> TBC and TBC -> Wrath weren't really as huge a difference for most players because raid level gear wasn't as easy to come by as it was in Wrath. (Your average player was never going to get enough gear to simply faceroll Magisters' Terrace, for example.)

    Cata heroics reset the playing field - as expansions do in WoW - but this time the majority of the player base was used to their level of power in Wrath. Never before had 5-man content at max level been so easily trounced by players, and you simply can't easily go backwards once people get used to something.

    As an aside, this is also why I worry that Mythic mode raids might also cause a large sub drop. Never before have I seen an MMO *increase* the mandatory raid size. (Yes, it's a decrease from 25, but an increase from 10) As I said before, it's hard to go backwards in terms of these things, and I wonder how many 10-man raiders are just gonna not bother.

    Cata raids were really bad. It all turned into dexterity and reaction time games, which I dislike and I cannot qualify as 35+. I'm talking about heroic mode raids.

    I don't recall any raids in Cata (I didn't do Dragon Soul) requiring any significant dexterity or reaction time. (No, 2-4 seconds is not "fast reaction time")

    Age is hardly an excuse either. At the risk of being trounced by my wife for giving up age details, lets just say that neither of us are exactly spring chickens by any measure.
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2013-11-19 at 11:40 PM.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The judgment of the devs is that you are not correct. The dungeon design failed so badly they completely abandoned it.
    Which was pointed at LFD resulting in players consuming dungeons far faster than ever before. With LFD staying in the game the developers had to find some other way to slow players down. LFD effectively removed daily lockouts and the developers also did not want to return to daily dungeons. Raiding on the other hand would remain on a weekly lockout so that no-lifers couldnt burn themselves out within a few months like they did in Cata.

    If you are talking about engaging dungeons then GC has mentioned that they could return, but not in the RDF system which was the root problem and players who are unwilling to accept the risks of their choices. Without the random queue feature the requirement to form your own group has largely been successful in MoP to filter out the disruptive players that plague random queue features and the complaints of those players.

    I hope to see more engaging non-raid PVE content options of which players can progress their characters in WoD without having to turn to Normal mode raiding just to use their brain. I would be very delighted if such content was on par with LFR reward level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Cata raids were really bad. It all turned into dexterity and reaction time games, which I dislike and I cannot qualify as 35+. I'm talking about heroic mode raids.
    Did you do heroic raiding in WotLK as there was a bunch of quick reaction based normal and heroic fights?
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-11-20 at 12:19 AM.

  15. #255
    The Patient
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    Launch was good, but tier 12 and 13 were awful. Siege has as many bosses as two firelands combined

  16. #256
    Stood in the Fire Xiandra's Avatar
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    So yea Cataclysm comes out,

    the first mistake they made was the Login screen another Dragon and this time this Dragon looked absolutly crappy, the animation was so bad I wanted to login ASAP just to keep the picture out of my mind. they should've brought up that Twilight Portal, if you've seen video's of it the Crowd went louder at the portal rather than the another dragon crap.

    Alright let's talk about dem Races, Worgens and Goblins. All cool and stuff the storyline was great and all was funzies but the fact that Worgens could be DK's i dunno not my thing still isn't my thing.

    dem zones, it's cool and stuff having to choose between A boat ride to an underwater world with Nazgrim or to help some GReen Dragonflight woman who's trying to cast her Heartstone but she appears to be lagging.. and still is!

    Then after that it was diving into Deepholme, rocks, rocks and more rocks. Even a giant female overweight rock monster, They should have but Therazane on the Login screen.

    Third was Uldum, it was a cool place its just ... Those Tol'vir guys dem cat people, Y dey no talk ? I asked a GM about it and he/she replied '' If you listen very carefully you can hear them saying, meow, meow! '' Uh-huh.

    ...Moving on

    Twilight highlands! Another Ring of blood series free exp etc, fighting off dem humies with the Help of Dragonmaw or join dem Wildhammers with tattoo's and stuff and take down dem Hordies,

    All of the zones BEFORE the patches came was funzies as always. But then which raids could you do ? Back then LFR wasn't available yet atleast not untill DS came out. So basicly you needed a Raid group to do 'em.

    BoT = EASY
    Al'akir = EASY
    Supposingly they were going to make a raid in Vashj'ir .. It never happend.
    Baradin Hold. Tol barad... Let's do the same thing what we did in Wintergrasp cuz APPARENTLY people enjoyed it!
    No they did not enjoy it, atleast i sure didn't. But yea i'm no PvP guy i suck at it.
    All of the bosses in BH however were EASSSSZZYYY. So easy.. The only one where there was trouble at and where people obviously had no clue what to do was the trash of those eyeballs. Everytime it was a wipe. But yea that's just trash.
    LETS BRING BACK ONYXIA !!!! MORE DOTS MORE DOTS MORE DOTS!
    That was just terrible.
    Firelands... Alright I must say that Raid was pretty EPIC, amazing and cool. Who would have ever thought that Ragnaros could walk on 2 feet. It's like a baby taking it's first two steppes. D'aww.. So cute...
    Dragon Soul: LFR CAME OUT! Well.. that just ruined everything.

    This is what people did or are still doing! But during Cata it was just extreemly boring.

    *Sit in orgrimmar/Stormwind waiting for a queue for LFR, you join in and some guy needs on gear they don't even need. Great ninja's in LFR! Waiting so long for a queue as a dps and then this happends. I'm glad they removed that*

    So yea this is my view on Cataclysm and some of the mistakes they made and it just not being '' fun '' enough as the other Expansions. Dragon soul was just completely boring it was just.. *meh* just *meh* there was no oomph to say like '' Hey guys! Lets go kill Deathwing again! '' wasn't there. It was in Burning crusade however, and Wotlk even in MoP with Garrosh it's still there, but yea cuz those were '' known '' lore Characters. The only reason you'd want to kill Deathwing is if you took place when suddenly the sky turns red and fire appears everywhere and it takes about 10 seconds for you to instantly die because Deathwing just wanted to cook you alive at the place you wanted to quest!

    Overall. I played throught it and my sight for WoD is that i'm thrilled to play it. GG

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    People got used to the simple wotlk dungeons you just aoe'd everything, and choked when you actually had to use CC.

    Is that Blizzards fault or the players? Its not like they removed CC's in wotlk.
    You seem to be swerving toward the notion that Wrath somehow ruined the players, and that things would have been significantly different without the players being "spoiled".

    I see no evidence for this. The players that found Cata heroics too hard wouldn't, I suggest, have ever found them easy. If Wrath had been difficult, they'd have bailed out then, not an expansion later.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  18. #258
    I dont think cata was THAT bad, it just didnt have enough to do. Dragon Soul was a let down though.

    Still probably is my least favorite expansion, but its still good.

  19. #259
    Mechagnome Whidbey's Avatar
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    Grindy leveling through 2 long as hell zones.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You seem to be swerving toward the notion that Wrath somehow ruined the players, and that things would have been significantly different without the players being "spoiled".

    I see no evidence for this. The players that found Cata heroics too hard wouldn't, I suggest, have ever found them easy. If Wrath had been difficult, they'd have bailed out then, not an expansion later.
    The beauty of Wrath is there was still tons of hard content in it. 3 drakes. Ulduar before nerfs and the Ulduar hard modes etc. Shadowmourne. Even though I hated the 5 mans in Wrath for being too easy, they had some interesting achievements.

    I loved the Cata 5 mans, but the normal mode raids were overtuned for most players, and there was nothing to do in the world (apart from level of course). The 5 mans were perfect for organized groups but too many players just didn't want to make friends and many of those who did were on dead servers. It was a recipe for disaster.
    Last edited by Garian; 2013-11-20 at 12:51 AM.

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