Thread: Why bash Cata?

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  1. #261
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    The top 3 reasons to bash Cata:
    1. 3 Bad PvP Seasons coming off of 3 good PvP Seasons.
    2. Mediocre Raids with reused bosses.
    3. Lamest final boss fight ever. OFF WITH HIS TOE!
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Since 99% of the players hadn't done Naxx 1.0, this didn't matter at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's a common propaganda line from the hardcores that people hated Wrath, but I see no evidence supporting this.
    99% when it was current content. There were countless more during BC. Ergo it's still lazy as fuck, probably even lazier than Dragon Soul, considering NOTHING in Naxx 2.0 was new. It only served to bore the players who already did it when it was either current or during the TBC era. Sure, first time was a nice nostalgia walk. But then you realize you were in lvl 70 gear and oneshotting bosses, it becomes rather dull.

    The matter of the fact is that yes, Wrath of the Lich King did in fact pander to a lazier and less coordinated style of play. Reintroducing an audience that has gotten used to blindly pulling several packs and aoeing them down to using CC again isn't easy. Cata heroics were pretty good and challenging prior to the nerfs. The only reason they were nerfed was essentially to make it easier for a group of 5 clueless people to get through them. To accommodate for LFD, a feature introduced during Wrath of the Lich King.

    Sub counts are not an argument for worsened game experience. You have to remember than during the DS era, a lot of players were bound to the 1 year sub thing, thus couldn't cancel their subscription. Also bear in mind that sub numbers were already dropping in WotLK.
    That is not a valid argument. By that same methodology, I could proclaim Cata as the best expansion ever because Wow reached it's peak in sub numbers during Cata life span.

    I'd say that Mists is probably a better expansion than Wrath as well. It's a bit lackluster on the 5 man side, but let's be honest, the 5 mans we got in Wrath were pretty fucking dull as well. Pvp was also in horrible shape for a long time during WotLK due the unbalance caused by the DK class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The top 3 reasons to bash Cata:
    1. 3 Bad PvP Seasons coming off of 3 good PvP Seasons.
    2. Mediocre Raids with reused bosses.
    3. Lamest final boss fight ever. OFF WITH HIS TOE!
    1. Sorry, you forgotten the DK imbalance, Shadowmourne mauling faces, etc? Cata brought you Rated BGs, which have become quite popular.
    2. Happens every single raid tier. Yes, let's turn a blind eye to a recycled raid, shall we?
    3. I'll point you again to LK, where Tirion just does one hit and essentially does the job while sitting in an ice cube for the entire fight. Pretty much how green jesus Thrall charges up his lazor to finish of Deathwing.
    "There must always be a Lich King"
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2013-11-20 at 02:59 AM.
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  3. #263
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbear View Post
    3. I'll point you again to LK, where Tirion just does one hit and essentially does the job while sitting in an ice cube for the entire fight. Pretty much how green jesus Thrall charges up his lazor to finish of Deathwing.
    I agree with you a little bit on the Lich King fight but not entirely. I tend to agree with Korgoth's literal point--about us bashing away at DW's toe--the optics were simply terrible although I don't know how, given DW's size, it could have been any different. That was another Blizzard miscalculation in going for an obvious "bigger is badder" villain and not providing any way to get him on the screen with your raid group without it looking ridiculous. It would have been better to fight him in human form and let him summon tentacles out of the ground or something than what we did. In the end it looked ridiculous anyway and was the source of a lot of amusement in our vent with a lot of variations on jokes about pedicures. Really, really bad optics that could not be forgiven because the final fight wasn't that great either. This was a villain who should have breathed our poor little party of 25 out of existence about 10 seconds into the fight while we were scratching his jaw or cleaning his nails. Just not immersive at all. Personal opinion of course.

    Even with saying that, I didn't hate DS as much as some although I didn't have anything much nice to say about it here but the raid felt like it was a little bit phoned in. Like I said earlier it sounded better in the description, and probably on paper, than the reality.

    Of course by that time, Blizzard was in full panic mode, was clearly anxious to put the entire expansion behind us ASAP even though they really couldn't and the expansion we got probably didn't resemble the expansion they planned in a lot of ways and for a lot of reasons. Just a mess really.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-11-20 at 04:57 AM.
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  4. #264
    I think the game was in a better shape than ever in the start of Cataclysm. I mean, casuals and people who didn't play back in TBC hated it because they never knew there was this thing called CC and that both defensive and offensive cooldowns could be used on trash, but as a hardcore player it was great. I loved the 5-mans, being kinda challenging, giving rep and gear. The raiding tier was the best one ever for so many reasons. The leveling quests were new and different from the old boring ones in WotLK. PvP was kinda broken, but at least most specs finally had a shot at a decent rating.

    But everything went to shit after that. They nerfed PvP to the ground in a bad way, like removing shape shifting out of roots for ferals instead of nerfing our OP bleeds. T11's many broken mechanics were fixed, but they also nerfed the shit out of things that were perfectly fine. We got the two troll instances instead of a raid. We later got Firelands, which was not enough for a tier no matter how awesome Ragnaros was. The legendary caster staff was too good and too accessible and fucked over everyone else. Dragon Soul was the worst patch ever with a terrible raid and 3 even worse RP 5-mans.

    WoW had both it's best and it's worst period of time during Cataclysm.

  5. #265
    Stood in the Fire
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    Activision-Blizzard went "You guys wanted things to be tough? Ok then... here, have this tough stuff" and a lot of players couldn't handle even the simplest mechanics in heroic dungeons... A lot of players left because they didn't enjoy the inexperienced players ruining their own experiences, and the inexperienced started leaving because it was "too hard"
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  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    I think the game was in a better shape than ever in the start of Cataclysm.
    Maybe if you worked for Trion.
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  7. #267
    The most fun I had during cata was day 1 of being 85. Ran LFG Heroic dungeons with randoms (was the 2nd lvl 85 on my server). Dungeons were hard as hell that early, but had amazing groups (the only people who leveled that quickly were hardcore raiders). Wiped dozens of times, but still finished the instances, talked about strategies for each boss, learned the mechanics together, etc. As soon as idiots started hitting 90, the LFG que for heroics became impossible to handle, didn't have much to do, then quit shortly after because my PvP group fell apart.

    Like everyone else, I would say that Cata started off strong, but really didn't have a whole lot of interesting non-HC raiding content to keep everyone busy. The daily quests were so terrible. Glad there will be 0 in WoD.
    Last edited by Awarelol; 2013-11-20 at 04:51 PM.

  8. #268
    The first tier of Cata is probably my favorite since Vanilla. PvP was certainly better than now, though I still prefer WotLK PvP. Overall I think Cata was pretty good, but I didn't really enjoy Firelands all that much and Dragon Soul wasn't very fun either. I loved the fact that heroic 5 mans were somewhat difficult (in the beginning, at least).

  9. #269
    I would say it was just weak with future patch content. The beginning was fun but that's with all expansions. ZA/ZG was just a boring grind and didn't really add any good lore. Firelands was alright, really liked the daily quest hub but then again for me it wasn't enough content. MoP did great with delivering good content fast.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    In all threads about new expansion I see lots of pll bashing Cata. Many pll say it was worst expansion ever. I did play since May 2005 and I strongly believe it's second BEST expansion after BC. Why? Everything about Cata was PERFECT. I'll explain now why.

    1. Leveling, core of the start = amazing fun because you COULD fly. Wanna not start level in one zone? Choose another. Leveing in Hijal is amazing, I still have a lot of fun lvling there on my alts. Uldum, nice storyline and fun quests. And that quest when you kill 1000 gnomes... PRICELESS . Not only that. They revamped old zones so nicely that it became fun to lvl new toons :P. And they added so many "EPIC FUN" quests. Like Sylvana's one. Or the one in badlands. Without Cata we would still grind old boring quests.
    1A. They made it impossible almost to quest in the redone zones with friends cause of phasing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    Now to people who say, flying mounts=no pvp. I had tons, TONS of fun world pvp in Vashj'ir and TB. In fact I killed so many people in world pvp during Cata I didn't kill since vanilla.
    1.B you are assuming that i was on a PVP sever. Yes flying everywhere was nice since since FP are retard, but we had tons of portals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    2. Dailies. Never, never felt like something you HAD to do. And esp those in Hijal were amazingly fun, there were even dailies which were easier to do as healer.
    2. Yes dailies felt like something you had to do. Firelands ones were annoying because you had to be at a certain point in the phasing quest to open. So i had to do the same fing quest on my alts. Loads of fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    3. Lore. Involving Thrall, one of the main lore characters. Even though I didn't enjoy much doing "Thrall specific quest" on many alts, doing it first time was very inspiring.
    3. Unless you were Worgen than it was shit you had to play the undead to find a bunch of the Worgen back story. Talk about seriously dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    4. Raiding. Actually Cata was first time when I started raiding very seriously. Because content was worth it. Remember emotions when you had to jump to lava on Nefarian hc.
    4. Raid felt weak especially dragon soul. Only heroic rag did they try to make feel epic. And they reused Ony again for the 3rd time. Talk about super lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    5. EPICNESS. Yes. It came to unreal level in Cata. Do I need to explain why?
    5. Um actually yes. Just saying it was EPIC does not make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    6. Dungeons. DUNGEONS WERE FUN. You needed some afford to complete stuff and when you finally completed them, you felt so good.
    6. You need component players and certain class for CC. LFG was a big cluster, and if people did not have gear they were not even do able. If they had the gear and followed directs some dungeons would almost take an hour. When Blizzard says that is a mistake than you know their were problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    My point is, I see no reason why people hate that expansion.
    Causal players hate this x-pac because of how much harder it was. Causal players were use to faster dungeons / short ones. Some players not familiar with lore were like who the hell is Deathwing? We just beat Arthas who was the main bad as established in WC3.

  11. #271
    For me, it's because they butchered the old world. That made me quit and I have still not forgiven them for it.
    Also, the quests in the new version of the old world. It's too easy, it's too boring.

    So, Cata was where it all started going downhill and now it's in total freefall. You will see next figures will be absolutely terrible drop.

  12. #272
    Stood in the Fire Cylom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    1. Leveling, core of the start = amazing fun because you COULD fly.
    For me it was fun, not because you could fly but because the leveling zones were just fun.
    2. Dailies. Never, never felt like something you HAD to do. And esp those in Hijal were amazingly fun, there were even dailies which were easier to do as healer.
    It was either that or spamming dungeons with tabards :l, and spamming dungeons do get boring over time ;p
    3. Lore. Involving Thrall, one of the main lore characters. Even though I didn't enjoy much doing "Thrall specific quest" on many alts, doing it first time was very inspiring.
    Indeed it was , BUT! I prefer having Thrall as our Warchief Tbh.
    4. Raiding. Actually Cata was first time when I started raiding very seriously. Because content was worth it. Remember emotions when you had to jump to lava on Nefarian hc.
    Yes raids were epic, what ruined it for me was the LFR tool with the bad Deathwing raid :l, it was total badness.
    5. EPICNESS. Yes. It came to unreal level in Cata. Do I need to explain why?
    Well I had fun going to Tol Barad till they applied a limit for people who participate =.=, after that I rarely got in TB because I know I will never be accepted.
    However, I didn't like the dailies from the start of Cata till Deathwing raid, which I only did in LFR because I didn't even bother anymore.
    6. Dungeons. DUNGEONS WERE FUN. You needed some afford to complete stuff and when you finally completed them, you felt so good.
    I really enjoyed dungeons at their release, oh god they were epic, but after we geared and now dungoens shouldn't be a problem anymore, durr nerfbat inc hurr.
    My point is, I see no reason why people hate that expansion.[/QUOTE]

    I disliked the guild reward system :l, I feel now I HAVE to be in a guild or I'm missing a lot, not like I wasn't in a guild in the first place but still.
    The nerfs to dungeons and raids :l seriously they were fine >.> look at the state of players right now.
    LFD and Dragon Soul were bad, even Trail of the Crusader/Champion was 10 times better; The only reason why my guild and I quitted raiding was because: "Uhh yeah we killed Deathwing well, cya in 10 months~", Not to mention the fight was disappointing.


    Just my thoughts about what you said :P
    Last edited by Cylom; 2013-11-20 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Typo

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  13. #273
    Enjoyed BWD & BoT after that it rolled downhill pretty asap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The top 3 reasons to bash Cata:
    1. 3 Bad PvP Seasons coming off of 3 good PvP Seasons.
    2. Mediocre Raids with reused bosses.
    3. Lamest final boss fight ever. OFF WITH HIS TOE!
    pmsl /10char

  14. #274
    Well 4.0 to 4.1 was great, no complaints there. I liked the difficulty and the new zones but eventually Cata just caused me to quit because..

    -PvP was horrible and boring. I can understand if they want arena fights between skilled team lasting 5-15 minutes but not when just killing randoms in BGs. You couldn't kill anything any more. If someone was losing, they just ran away and the only way to actually kills players was to gank them with groups of 3+. Oh and also healers..

    -Same as with PvP, I dont mind difficulty and things requiring effort if the rewards as appropriate. Unfortunately they just werent. Why spend hours and days doing something very difficult when in the end they just give everyone the rewards anyway.

  15. #275
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbear View Post
    1. Sorry, you forgotten the DK imbalance, Shadowmourne mauling faces, etc? Cata brought you Rated BGs, which have become quite popular.
    2. Happens every single raid tier. Yes, let's turn a blind eye to a recycled raid, shall we?
    3. I'll point you again to LK, where Tirion just does one hit and essentially does the job while sitting in an ice cube for the entire fight. Pretty much how green jesus Thrall charges up his lazor to finish of Deathwing.
    "There must always be a Lich King"
    1. I never really had a problem getting roflstomped by Shadowmourne. Oh, I didn't actively enjoy getting roflstomped by a DK or Warrior with it, but I do like the idea that taking your legendary (which did require a reasonable amount of good work to get) into PvP should make you a killing machine of sorts.

    2. What other final raid tier (DS was suppose d to be the climax of Cataclysm) is so egregious about re-used everything?

    3. Yeah, Tirion's deus ex iceblock was a little annoying. But at least we actually fought Arthas and the phases were different, instead of fighting trash while beating on a chunk of terrain four times in a row, before beating on a different chunk of terrain.
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  16. #276
    Blizzard tried to get away with low effort while expecting the same rewards. It didn't work, thankfully.
    Last edited by Frogged; 2013-11-21 at 04:26 AM.
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  17. #277
    Laughable comments and attitudes from the devs like GC suggesting the first Cata session was "The most balanced session to date" when most high ranked PvPers where thinking the exact opposite. The terrible writing, especially towards the end where it became an almost disturbing over the top tribute to Thrall also did not help matters.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalius View Post
    Dragon Soul raid and the ZG/ZA dungeons.
    Some of the worst content additions in the game's history.

    Also, although I enjoyed them, the 5-mans at release were too lengthy (not difficult) and so a lot of people couldn't progress through the game, which stinks

  19. #279
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    It wasn't as terrible as people made it out to be. It had to contend with Wrath, which was just about the pinnacle of lore integration in an expansion. That being said, it was poorly thought out and even more poorly executed. They went from BC and Wrath where the zones, dungeons, quests, everything was one driving story to the disjointed and unconnected zones in cata. Wrath especially gave you constant reminders of who and why you were fighting but Deathwing was nowhere to be found. It didn't play very well at the time and honestly feels more like leveling content from vanilla. Sending you from one end of this continent to the other end of that continent and heres a random CoT portion etc. They also didn't anticipate the issues they had with Trall's storyline. Most Horde players were not fans of losing their Warchief. Most Alliance players were not a fan of working for said Warchief all expansion. Nobody was a fan of Garrosh coming from left field to take up the mantle. It was just kinda all over the place and didn't have anything people were looking for.
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  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Throne View Post
    Some of the worst content additions in the game's history.

    Also, although I enjoyed them, the 5-mans at release were too lengthy (not difficult) and so a lot of people couldn't progress through the game, which stinks
    I think to a point the old world dungeon revamps are to blame for the length. The developers was trying to keep the feel of them and couldnt just make them stand too far out. Prior to Catas launch the developers did say they liked the shorter dungeons like the ICC ones. Somewhere design choices changed. Cata also did launch with an underwhelming amount of endgame content and that might have played a roll in Blizzards attempt to stretch the content as the old world revamp was mentioned to have come first.

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