Thread: Why bash Cata?

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  1. #261
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbear View Post
    1. Sorry, you forgotten the DK imbalance, Shadowmourne mauling faces, etc? Cata brought you Rated BGs, which have become quite popular.
    2. Happens every single raid tier. Yes, let's turn a blind eye to a recycled raid, shall we?
    3. I'll point you again to LK, where Tirion just does one hit and essentially does the job while sitting in an ice cube for the entire fight. Pretty much how green jesus Thrall charges up his lazor to finish of Deathwing.
    "There must always be a Lich King"
    1. I never really had a problem getting roflstomped by Shadowmourne. Oh, I didn't actively enjoy getting roflstomped by a DK or Warrior with it, but I do like the idea that taking your legendary (which did require a reasonable amount of good work to get) into PvP should make you a killing machine of sorts.

    2. What other final raid tier (DS was suppose d to be the climax of Cataclysm) is so egregious about re-used everything?

    3. Yeah, Tirion's deus ex iceblock was a little annoying. But at least we actually fought Arthas and the phases were different, instead of fighting trash while beating on a chunk of terrain four times in a row, before beating on a different chunk of terrain.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  2. #262
    Blizzard tried to get away with low effort while expecting the same rewards. It didn't work, thankfully.
    Last edited by Frogged; 2013-11-21 at 04:26 AM.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  3. #263
    Laughable comments and attitudes from the devs like GC suggesting the first Cata session was "The most balanced session to date" when most high ranked PvPers where thinking the exact opposite. The terrible writing, especially towards the end where it became an almost disturbing over the top tribute to Thrall also did not help matters.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalius View Post
    Dragon Soul raid and the ZG/ZA dungeons.
    Some of the worst content additions in the game's history.

    Also, although I enjoyed them, the 5-mans at release were too lengthy (not difficult) and so a lot of people couldn't progress through the game, which stinks

  5. #265
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    It wasn't as terrible as people made it out to be. It had to contend with Wrath, which was just about the pinnacle of lore integration in an expansion. That being said, it was poorly thought out and even more poorly executed. They went from BC and Wrath where the zones, dungeons, quests, everything was one driving story to the disjointed and unconnected zones in cata. Wrath especially gave you constant reminders of who and why you were fighting but Deathwing was nowhere to be found. It didn't play very well at the time and honestly feels more like leveling content from vanilla. Sending you from one end of this continent to the other end of that continent and heres a random CoT portion etc. They also didn't anticipate the issues they had with Trall's storyline. Most Horde players were not fans of losing their Warchief. Most Alliance players were not a fan of working for said Warchief all expansion. Nobody was a fan of Garrosh coming from left field to take up the mantle. It was just kinda all over the place and didn't have anything people were looking for.
    You either die a Varian, or live long enough to see yourself become a Thrall...

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Throne View Post
    Some of the worst content additions in the game's history.

    Also, although I enjoyed them, the 5-mans at release were too lengthy (not difficult) and so a lot of people couldn't progress through the game, which stinks
    I think to a point the old world dungeon revamps are to blame for the length. The developers was trying to keep the feel of them and couldnt just make them stand too far out. Prior to Catas launch the developers did say they liked the shorter dungeons like the ICC ones. Somewhere design choices changed. Cata also did launch with an underwhelming amount of endgame content and that might have played a roll in Blizzards attempt to stretch the content as the old world revamp was mentioned to have come first.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The judgment of the devs is that you are not correct. The dungeon design failed so badly they completely abandoned it.
    What an absurd position to take.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    What an absurd position to take.
    In what way is that position absurd?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #269
    Deleted
    Because Cata was shite.

    theproblem with dragon soul was that it was a piss poor raid. And on top of that every model was recycled.
    the difference to naxx 2.0 is that naxx 2.0 was still a good raid now made substantially easier compared to 40 man but it was still a good raid. sure it was recycled but it was a good raid.
    not everything that is recycled is automaticly bad. The problem is that if something that was recycled stinks then ontop of it all it gets griefe because the creators were so lazy that they even reused everything in this horrible recycled piece of shit.

    to give an idea about what I mean here are 2 top 10 list of worst and best remakes

  10. #270
    There's a reason subs bleeded badly during Cata, and its not because the game is old...... definately not

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post

    If that's the position you're going to take, then I wonder what that says about how wrong the Vanilla-fetishists are.
    No comment is needed.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  12. #272
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    What was so bad about Dragon soul? Fights were pretty epic. Spine, Deathwing... Not on LFR ofc, but who judges raid content on LFR?
    Spine and madness were both terrible design and major disappointments on all difficulties.
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  13. #273
    Deleted
    naxx 2.0 was still a good raid now made substantially easier compared to 40 man but it was still a good raid. sure it was recycled but it was a good raid.
    Ha ha ha, no. Get out of here. it was not a good raid, not by design. The mechanics were outdated and were far too easy. And I mean far too easy. You could easily clear that with everyone wearing early lvl 70 raiding gear with questing greens here and there.

    Everyone who claims Naxx 2.0 as a good raid never truly experienced the mess it was, or never played on a good enough level to understand how underbalanced it actually was. You didn't progress through it, you steamrolled it on your first day in there.
    You effectively had to sleep or suffer from some form of brain damage to die to the mechanics in there. That includes the Heigan Dance. The only encounter that could potentially wipe your raid was Thaddius.
    Last edited by mmocfce925a786; 2013-11-21 at 07:57 PM.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    A lot of people found the final raid, as well as the focus on remaking the old world instead of more late game content, to be very uninteresting.

    I would personally list it as the second worse, since so far every expansion has been worse to me than the one prior to it.

    I more or less agree with this. I didn't think Wrath was a massive step down from Burning Crusade, but I didn't feel like it was as good. Cataclysm overyly simplified the talent system and completely redid how several classes played ((For better or worse)). I hated, with a burning passion, the changes to the old world. I did not feel they were neccesary and they destroyed the world I had come to know and love.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    Spine and madness were both terrible design and major disappointments on all difficulties.
    Spine is epic, you had to stand on back of dragon, very unique fight! And madness was ok. Not as disappointing as ICC ending. I just guess people don't like it because it was first raid where LFR was introduced and we all know how some people hate LFR. Plus LFR loot system was completely different and much more annoying(unless you had 999 friends)

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Malderon View Post
    Spine is epic, you had to stand on back of dragon, very unique fight! And madness was ok. Not as disappointing as ICC ending. I just guess people don't like it because it was first raid where LFR was introduced and we all know how some people hate LFR. Plus LFR loot system was completely different and much more annoying(unless you had 999 friends)
    Spine was epic?

    Standing on his back hitting some blobs of blood?

    I'm sorry but your opinion seems to be very much in the smaller camp of people on here.

    You can't just make blanket statements and blame it on LFR because it's just factually incorrect.

    Lots of the criticisms raised about Dragon Soul were that a lot of it felt very lazy, tons of re-used stuff, un-interesting fights, and hitting blobs of blood and claws for the final 2 climactic fights really wasn't very interesting.

  17. #277
    Cata started out ok with the leveling. Not my favorite but passable. I LOVED the dungeons and T11. The dungeons were challenging and I could spend a night working through a dungeon or two and feel accomplished. It was fun and helped improve player skills, especially those of some friends newer to wow who were working towards raiding.

    After that, Cata tanked pretty hard. Not enough content throughout the expansion and Firelands and Dragonsoul were not great. Firelands had some good bosses, but was just not enough content.

  18. #278
    Deleted
    I played T11 only and I liked it A LOT! Not only the AWESOME raids, but also the questing, the mounts, the new zones, etc. I didn't like Deathwing tbh; after Arthas, Deathwing seemed like a clown. Also ZA/ZG were fine, but they ended up boring because they were the only dungeons to do.

    From what I know, the rest of the content was shit, because they completely fucked up with their time schedule. Actually, they created like half the content(4.0, 4.1 excluded) of what they were planning initially.

    Cataclysm had great potential, but shit happen...

  19. #279
    Pandaren Monk Constraint's Avatar
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    I detested Cata probably more than most. Raidwise, T11 was actually quite good, besides the tedium of killing Onyxia yet again. Dragon Soul was god-awful. Even Firelands, which most people seemed to love, did absolutely nothing for me.

    They butchered the old zones (again, in my opinion) turning it from a random yet enjoyable labyrinth of quests/travel into a boring, tedious "quest on rails" system, where you grab 3 quests, complete them, grab 2 quests, complete them, grab 3 quests, complete them, grab 1 quest, complete it ad infinitum, FOR EVERY SINGLE ZONE. Thanks guys, great improvement. Lovin' it. There are several extremely enjoyable quests, such as Maximillian in Un'Goro, the Deathwing "slayers" in Badlands etc, but they're exceptions to the rule, sadly.

    I hated how disjointed the areas at 80-85 were, but that's not such a biggie. I just prefer continents I guess, instead of completely unrelated zones. Vashj'r was utterly beautiful, I must say. I hated Hyjal, Uldum and Twilight Highlands - completely boring to me, especially since they're so heavily "quest on rails" orientated along with rather uninspiring landscapes. Oh and if Harrison Jones is in any future zones.. please forewarn me so I can skip them completely. Deepholm was good, very original and rather beautiful to look at in parts.

    Oh yeah, that's right - they utterly butchered the talent trees. I literally thought I was in a nightmare when I saw how absurdly tiny they'd become, yet somehow still didn't have any really interesting choices, AND you had to max out a tree before starting on a new line? Are you fucking kidding me? Is it REALLY that hard to put interesting, overlapping, overarching choices into a whole THREE trees per class? Sure it'd take time/balancing, but that's why you have alpha/betas. Of course, this pales in comparison to the abomination that is MoP/WoDs talent trees, where everyone STILL chooses EXACTLY the same talents for certain bosses/PvP, only there are a WHOPPING SIX BLACK AND WHITE CHOICES. Caps r kewl.

    Even the "5 levels" for the entire expansion, while completely trivial, didn't really feel right, after the last two expansions giving 10. Glad they're going back to 10 for WoD, even though it's nothing more than a number. Just feels right to me.

    Far, far too few 5 mans. They were actually quite fun for the first month or so. I remember actually having to Shadowfury every cooldown, for example. Imagine that - 5 mans where you're actually encouraged to use your classes' abilities. Didn't last long, but hey, casuals/unskilled players usually get their own way.

  20. #280
    Dragon soul aka one of the worst raids ever.

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