why government health care in the US is dead in one chart

[Joathen]

Hot damn- it seems our European friends as well as our neighbors to the north have a misunderstanding with the general public of the US, it's not that we don't want socialized healthcare, it's that we don't trust our current government not to fuck it up. This is the same government that greedily dug into our Social Security funds and bankrupted those accounts with uncontrolled spending on side projects. This is the same government that pays $2900 for a Black and Decker hammer at Sikorsky Aviation; the same government that wastes what little time they spend in the "Legislative season" to piss and moan in the capital only to not actually do anything- besides try and restrict our social freedoms.

It works in Europe and Canada- because those countries aren't run by a horde of incompetent Hozen.

[Tradewind]

Even the most cost effective systems (which I very much envy, don't get me wrong) cost a hell of a lot more than 2% of wages.

That's true, I don't agree with 2%, but I never said it either

I don't even know what it would end up with for Americans. Last time I even tried to bring a number to it, at the cost differences per person it's something like $9 Trillion/year to insure all Americans.

In Canada for 2012 it was something like 24% of taxes went back to health care. But that's covering a lot of things, not just personal care. That's also free care to natives, seniors, research, other public programs. The health transfer program back to provinces accounts for about 10%, which is where most primary care is funded from. Comparatively, we spend 8% on defence, 11% on public debt.

[TZucchini]

Right. Leave it to the general public to decide how to operate the incredibly complex healthcare system in America.

That graph is nothing more than a representation of what Joe Blow thinks about healthcare. Uninteresting to say the least.

[Airwaves]

Unless you're living in a third world country, it doesn't. You're seeing some funky accounting. There's no first world nations with universal health care spending less than ~7-10% of their GDP on healthcare.

Oh for fuck sake. PERSONAL TAXES. For the the 3rd bloody time. You know what. I give up.

[Demona3]

How much do you think the fine is?

The tax penalties go into effect in 2014, which means, if you’re uninsured for more than three months in 2014, you may incur the tax penalty and that penalty would be applied when you file your 2014 income tax return.

If you don’t qualify for an exemption to the Affordable Care Act’s mandate to purchase qualifying health coverage, then you will be subject to a tax penalty.

The penalty is phased-in over a three year period.

In 2014, the penalty will be the greater of 1.0% of taxable income or $95 per adult and $47.50 per child (up to $285 per family).

In 2015, the penalty will be the greater of 2.0% of taxable income or $325 per adult and $162.50 per child (up to $975 per family).

In 2016, the penalty will be at the greater of 2.5% of taxable income or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child (up to $$2,085 per family).

After 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the increase to the cost-of-living.

Households with incomes above 400% of FPL will be exempt from paying tax penalties if insurance in their area costs more than 8% of their taxable income, after taking into account employer contributions or tax credits.

[Mormolyce]

Or you could, I dunno, have a little patience and try to get it up and running with improvements rather than freaking out.

Remember, what you're setting up here is a gnat's fart compared to the public health infrastructure your peers have.

[Collegeguy]

Govt healthcare is not dead. Obamacare is not the solution though and was a horrible idea. We need the Euro style of govt healthcare.

[obdigore]

The tax penalties go into effect in 2014, which means, if you’re uninsured for more than three months in 2014, you may incur the tax penalty and that penalty would be applied when you file your 2014 income tax return.

If you don’t qualify for an exemption to the Affordable Care Act’s mandate to purchase qualifying health coverage, then you will be subject to a tax penalty.

The penalty is phased-in over a three year period.

In 2014, the penalty will be the greater of 1.0% of taxable income or $95 per adult and $47.50 per child (up to $285 per family).

In 2015, the penalty will be the greater of 2.0% of taxable income or $325 per adult and $162.50 per child (up to $975 per family).

In 2016, the penalty will be at the greater of 2.5% of taxable income or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child (up to $$2,085 per family).

After 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the increase to the cost-of-living.

Households with incomes above 400% of FPL will be exempt from paying tax penalties if insurance in their area costs more than 8% of their taxable income, after taking into account employer contributions or tax credits.

I had no idea 285$ over the course of a year was 'being taxed to death' on someone making 92k a year. I must have missed that memo.

[Spectral]

Oh for fuck sake. PERSONAL TAXES. For the the 3rd bloody time. You know what. I give up.

Yeah, fuck it, let's just pretend that if it's not on your income tax bill it's not actually a tax at all

Like I said, one of the downsides to socialized medicine is people that are this clueless about costs.

[obdigore]

Yeah, fuck it, let's just pretend that if it's not on your income tax bill it's not actually a tax at all

Like I said, one of the downsides to socialized medicine is people that are this clueless about costs.

Come on Spectral. The guy is clearly saying he thinks 2% of his personal taxes go to healthcare in his country, and the rest is probably funded by corporate or sales (VAT) taxes. I don't know if it is right or wrong because I have no idea where he is from, but the two of you could at least stop arguing past each other.

[Wells]

The tax penalties go into effect in 2014, which means, if you’re uninsured for more than three months in 2014, you may incur the tax penalty and that penalty would be applied when you file your 2014 income tax return.

If you don’t qualify for an exemption to the Affordable Care Act’s mandate to purchase qualifying health coverage, then you will be subject to a tax penalty.

The penalty is phased-in over a three year period.

In 2014, the penalty will be the greater of 1.0% of taxable income or $95 per adult and $47.50 per child (up to $285 per family).

In 2015, the penalty will be the greater of 2.0% of taxable income or $325 per adult and $162.50 per child (up to $975 per family).

In 2016, the penalty will be at the greater of 2.5% of taxable income or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child (up to $$2,085 per family).

After 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the increase to the cost-of-living.

Households with incomes above 400% of FPL will be exempt from paying tax penalties if insurance in their area costs more than 8% of their taxable income, after taking into account employer contributions or tax credits.

That's taxed to death for you?

[Spectral]

I don't even know what it would end up with for Americans. Last time I even tried to bring a number to it, at the cost differences per person it's something like $9 Trillion/year to insure all Americans.

That numbers sounds high to me, but it's hard to really get a good, sound, accurate estimate. I favor significant changes in care policies that'd cut it by quite a lot I'm sure though, so perhaps the numbers I have in my head are more like what I think it should be. I know it's not 2% and I don't think it's quite that high, but there's an awful lotta real estate in between.

[Surfd]

Coming from a country with free healthcare I am so amazed america is against it. My mum got cancer a few months ago and you know how much everything has cost her? NOTHING. If it was in the US she would have had to sell her house just to pay for it and I would have had to lend her all my savings for a house as well. Just to live. There is reasons the world doesn't like you and this is just one.

Can't afford treatment? well fuck you just die. That is what it looks like.

It is because Americans are conditioned from birth with this bizzare notion that absolutely nobody should benefit from their hard earned money but them. Socialized medicare is the spawn of satan because it takes money from them, and uses it to help less well off schmucks who didnt "earn" it.

Never mind, of course, trying to explain the utter insanity of relying on a privatized, for profit HMOs who generally end up costing signifigantly more in the long run both for the Consumer (pro tip: a for profit health care orginization is about the dumbest thing ever concieved, since actually treating you directly affects their bottom line, meaning they will actively charge you as much as they can while simultaneously trying to prevent you from ever claiming a return) and for their Government (How much money do you think your govenrment spends on regulation and oversight for your Health Care industry?)

They just willfully stuff their heads in the sand and fling the cry of "freedom" in your face. Whatever that is supposed to mean. I have friends in the states. My parents have friends in the states as well as winter in florida now that they are retired. We gave them up as lost causes a long, long time ago.

[Spectral]

Come on Spectral. The guy is clearly saying he thinks 2% of his personal taxes go to healthcare in his country, and the rest is probably funded by corporate or sales (VAT) taxes. I don't know if it is right or wrong because I have no idea where he is from, but the two of you could at least stop arguing past each other.

In other words, he's completely delusional in believing that his country pays for all healthcare with 2% taxation. He's either dishonest or pig-ignorant. I don't care which. Someone that genuinely thinks that they're not paying taxes if it's in the VAT instead of on their income taxes is mindbogglingly bad at handling numbers.

[obdigore]

In other words, he's completely fucking delusional in believing that his country pays for all healthcare with 2% taxation. He's either dishonest or pig-ignorant. I don't care which.

If, for instance, 2% of his income tax rate goes directly to the healthcare, and all the rest is made up from somewhere else, then no he isn't completely wrong.

Of course, he could be from one of those Norse countries swimming in oil that uses it to fund lots of stuff, too. ;P

[tuesday the paladin]

It's easier to support something when it's an idea rather than a practice. Short term it can be frustrating but in the long term an effective health care system is something the US needs.

[EqualWin]

US capitalism at his best

srsly people complaining about obamacare, it's a good thing for every1

it might suck for now cuz it started but it will be awesome, you don't want to get a cancer or any big problem and then lose your house and everything just because medicine in US is expensive as fuck, same for education.. those 2 things should be free/almost free.

[Spectral]

US capitalism at his best

srsly people complaining about obamacare, it's a good thing for every1

it might suck for now cuz it started but it will be awesome, you don't want to get a cancer or any big problem and then lose your house and everything just because medicine in US is expensive as fuck, same for education.. those 2 things should be free/almost free.

I have no idea how you think the ACA makes healthcare free. Fucking magic?

[Airwaves]

If, for instance, 2% of his income tax rate goes directly to the healthcare, and all the rest is made up from somewhere else, then no he isn't completely wrong.

Which is exactly what I meant. America can stop spending billions on there military to cover the rest. Few weeks ago they spent 8 billion on a new ship THAT ISN'T EVEN SEA WORTHY. Like fuck. Oh but don't worry it has a rail gun! Imagine if that 8 billion was put into there healthcare costs. They spend billions to take lives but not to save them.

[Pwellzor]

I have no idea how you think the ACA makes healthcare free. Fucking magic?

This^ Its still insurance, it isn'ta magic hospital voucher.

There wouldnt be bronze/silver/gold plans if it was a cure-all.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is exactly what I meant. America can stop spending billions on there military to cover the rest. Few weeks ago they spent 8 billion on a new ship THAT ISN'T EVEN SEA WORTHY. Like fuck. Oh but don't worry it has a rail gun! Imagine if that 8 billion was put into there healthcare costs. They spend billions to take lives but not to save them.

Not all of these ships are used for killing. The only reason the Philippines isn't a big ball of plague is because of military ships providing supplies and airdrops.