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  1. #61
    Dreadlord Xe4ro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve View Post
    In the beta female trolls looked like everquest trolls not the slinky jamaican goddesses they are today. it always tickles me pink when i see deviantart or w/e of sexy trolls or people who get way too into their toons...knowing what they are supposed to look like.

    Additionally male BE were supposed to have a slender and sexy physique, not look like anglo luchadors with banana hands sorry if this is off topic.

    Original vanilla player here...I am still 'around' I just do not play, for many various reasons.
    yeah ofcourse. everything has to look like in the early days. No Technical and Skill Progression should ever be allowed. :>
    Druid since Feb. 06

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    Imagine you actually had to use your class abilities apart from the 5 you have on your action bars or pay attention. It's madness!
    I don't get it. I really don't. How are current dungeons fun or interesting in any way? How?! It's just a loot machine. Fun is when you accidentally pull a second group and it's a whirlwind of chaos trying to protect the healer while the tank tries to regain control and the hunter is trapping things while you fear a mob off another dps and break the fear with a searing flame before it can pull a third pack and somehow at the end of the madness there's two or three of you still standing because your group managed to down both (!) packs against all odds. And you managed it because you used your abilities creatively and on the fly, not because you eeked out an extra 1.34% dps using the same abilities over and over and over. I miss old dungeons; dangerous dungeons. There's no real reward without the danger of failure.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Just something I wondered lately.

    I notice so many completely new players around me that I wonder if newer generations have taken over the torch from the "Original players" that started in the early years. And by new player I mean players that started in MoP and to a lesser extend in Cataclysm.

    What do you guys think? Do you experience something simular?

    P.s. please dont make this about what group is better etc., just focus on the main question
    How in the hell do you know if another player is new or not?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I'm still here.

    And lordy it's a different game and culture entirely. For better and for worse.
    Mostly for worse.

  5. #65
    Vanilla players have been a minority for a very long time.

    I've been playing since 2009 and in that time I've seen about 4 whole "generations" of friends come and go. I'd say the vast majority of the WoW population turns over every year.

    Out of my entire 25m guild that I'm in now, only 2-3 of them were in it when I joined in early Firelands. The rest are new. I quit raiding shortly after the release of HoF, and I don't recognise more than half of their current raiding roster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerofluff View Post
    @Fearnoro: No. ToC was awesome, because there was no trash. Raiding isn't about time wasted killing a wave of stupid mobs, it's about knowing boss mechanics and being quick enough to do what you're supposed to be doing, in coordination with other people. Sure, the scenery didn't change, but it was quite refreshing to be able to go from boss to boss, getting your earned loot without having to waste more time plowing through trash.
    Oddly enough, I didn't say a word about ToC lacking trash.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Vanilla players have been a minority for a very long time.

    I've been playing since 2009 and in that time I've seen about 4 whole "generations" of friends come and go. I'd say the vast majority of the WoW population turns over every year.

    Out of my entire 25m guild that I'm in now, only 2-3 of them were in it when I joined in early Firelands. The rest are new. I quit raiding shortly after the release of HoF, and I don't recognise more than half of their current raiding roster.
    You're aware that just because you don't know them; that doesn't mean they are new to the game, right?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Yes pure speculation since Blizzard never gives out that data, however based on known factors the speculation I make fits a model which can be tested.
    This sentence is self contradictory. The rest of your post goes on to make up numbers, which would be great for testing your hypothesis, if your hypothesis could be tested -- which it cannot.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    You're aware that just because you don't know them; that doesn't mean they are new to the game, right?
    I wasn't saying that. A lot of them have been playing for a while. And in any case this is a HM guild so it's kind of a clique and not representative of the base.

    If you want to find actual data on this you'd have to look at those reams of data on player achievements that MMO-C mines occasionally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #70
    According the the polls on this forums 98% of people have played since classic. Yeah, right lol.

    I have. Why? I love the game.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve View Post
    In the beta female trolls looked like everquest trolls not the slinky jamaican goddesses they are today. it always tickles me pink when i see deviantart or w/e of sexy trolls or people who get way too into their toons...knowing what they are supposed to look like.

    Additionally male BE were supposed to have a slender and sexy physique, not look like anglo luchadors with banana hands sorry if this is off topic.

    Original vanilla player here...I am still 'around' I just do not play, for many various reasons.
    To each their own I guess, the live female troll model may be in dire need of some love but the beta model was just plain hideous. Ditto the old BE model.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    It's almost like there was a massive shift in design direction at one point.
    I have a suspicion that formed when I heard of GC's former profession and saw the way class changes were being handled... call it my paranoid tin-foil hat theory, whatever. GC was a marine biologist; if I remember right he specialized in ecosystems. I honestly wonder if he was brought in (and sold himself to the suits) on the idea that the flow of a "living" game like an MMO was not too dissimilar to an ecosystem, and that he could maintain it, so to speak. Keep it from stagnating, from getting stale. The way to do this is to constantly change things, in a sort of rock-paper-scissor kind of way. There's no perfect balance in nature, just a sort of rise and fall of different species to maintain an overall balance over time. While this all sounds good on paper, it makes for shitty, shitty game design. It relies on constant, sometimes arbitrary nerfs and buffs to classes from patch to patch (more than is needed to nudge them towards a true balance). I suspect that Blizzard has tried to replace art (working towards a vision of how the game should be and how each class should feel) with engineering (constant change to prevent boredom, time investment tricks like the weird Golden Lotus gating) and that doesn't work in the long run, at least not with games.

    That's totally my loony pet theory though, not to be taken seriously.

  13. #73
    Stood in the Fire Nakkí's Avatar
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    Still here! Phew, 9 years.. It's been a long journey.
    Last edited by Nakkí; 2013-11-20 at 04:23 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternategray View Post
    I have a suspicion that formed when I heard of GC's former profession and saw the way class changes were being handled... call it my paranoid tin-foil hat theory, whatever. GC was a marine biologist; if I remember right he specialized in ecosystems. I honestly wonder if he was brought in (and sold himself to the suits) on the idea that the flow of a "living" game like an MMO was not too dissimilar to an ecosystem, and that he could maintain it, so to speak. Keep it from stagnating, from getting stale. The way to do this is to constantly change things, in a sort of rock-paper-scissor kind of way. There's no perfect balance in nature, just a sort of rise and fall of different species to maintain an overall balance over time. While this all sounds good on paper, it makes for shitty, shitty game design. It relies on constant, sometimes arbitrary nerfs and buffs to classes from patch to patch (more than is needed to nudge them towards a true balance). I suspect that Blizzard has tried to replace art (working towards a vision of how the game should be and how each class should feel) with engineering (constant change to prevent boredom, time investment tricks like the weird Golden Lotus gating) and that doesn't work in the long run, at least not with games.

    That's totally my loony pet theory though, not to be taken seriously.
    That doesn't make sense, early WoW wasn't art compared to today's mechanical. Old WoW was just a clumsy machine that wasn't built very well.

    Or was built pretty well for its time anyway.

    I don't think it would've made a lot of difference to WoW who the devs were, the path it needed to evolve along was pretty obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  15. #75
    I have played since beta pre-vanilla. Seen it all. Completed high warlord and I was part of one of the few guilds who cleared naxx 40. My favorite thing in vanilla was the AQ 40 event and world Pvp at tarren mill. And the 3 day av's lol.

    Nobody I know from then still plays the game. Everyone I play with now picked up the game in wrath or cata. Most of us, including myself just unsubbed with the news on WoD. We don't want to be apart of another Cata. We are looking forward to heroes of the storm tho.

  16. #76
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    I would think so, yes. While I am a vanilla player and play off and on now, the amount of time that has passed is going on 8 years? Can't expect the firsts to still be around in large amount.

    I'm one of the only people still around from my group of friends.
    You now stand before the Countess.
    A story of Firsts from around the world:
    http://thingsihaveneverdone.wordpress.com/

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    According the the polls on this forums 98% of people have played since classic. Yeah, right lol.

    I have. Why? I love the game.

    I can distinctively remember logging into westfall on my first toon the day they did the talent reset for the pre bc patch and wondering why pyroblast wasnt on my bars....then getting killed >9000 times by doomlord after I went back to SW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goat7 View Post
    Most of us, including myself just unsubbed with the news on WoD. We don't want to be apart of another Cata. We are looking forward to heroes of the storm tho.
    Most of us? How about you dont try and speak for people you dont know.

  18. #78
    Interview from Nov 2009 when WoW had 11.5M subs:
    Originally Posted by Rob Pardo
    I don't know what the exact number is off-hand, but the total number of subscribers we've had is easily more than double - maybe closer to triple - the current subscriber base. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's only natural.

    WoW is old. Very, very, old. Over the course of 9 years, people are going to come and go. It's inevitable.

    Some people seem to be under the impression that if only X had been better, or Y had never been implemented, that somehow no one would have ever quit. Naturally that's just unrealistic.
    Perfectly said.

  20. #80
    Epic! MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    I'm part of the small playerbase that has been here since Classic. I think any players that leave the game because Blizzard adds optional content that they don't like is silly. I think I've liked or at least tried everything that has come out over the years. Off the top of my head, 2 things I don't like are PvP and Fishing. Everything else is tolerable or enjoyable. Yes, even daily quests.

    Nothing can hold me back!

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