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  1. #1

    Questions about H Iron Juggernaut, Shamans and Nazgrim

    Hi guys! I just have some general questions about those 3 bosses on 10 man heroic.

    Iron Juggernaut

    We two shot this boss first time we fought him, but then seems having problem in p1 damage taken which we didn't really notice last time. Seems like ppl were getting one shot by combination of multiple abilities (drill/sawblade/laser burn) before healers can heal them up. We had ppl spread out running around trying to avoid things as much as possible, but still shit happens. So I want to ask is there anything else you can do to deal with damage taken in p1?

    Shamans

    So haven't tried yet. But there was an interesting video I saw that a Chinese guild did it in a strange way than usual groups. They still 3 tanked, but switched position of 2 shamans: have 2 tanks 2 healers 5 dps down the bottom with Earthbreaker, and 1 blood dk alone (no healer no dps) up the hill soloing Wavebinder. He claimed that if the dk is strong enough to handle that, it will be a faceroll to the rest of raid, basically a dummy fight with a little movement. I tried on my undergeared dk on flex and it was a piece of cake, and I wouldn't imagine normal will be much different. Just on heroic everything hits harder and you got an extra Iron Prison to deal with. So I was wondering has anyone tried this way? If so, how hard do you feel about the pressure?

    Nazgrim

    We almost got him, but feels like we usually got overrun by 5th to 6th wave of adds. I was wondering how do you usually rotate your healing cd? Do you normally save them for that time?


    Thank you!
    Last edited by jasonleekungfu; 2013-11-19 at 05:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Might work if you tell your class combination for people.
    I know some 3tank juggernaut too, to make mine handling easier, and easier tank swaps,giving healers more time to focus on raid, though i guess you know this, considered what you found about shamans
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Might work if you tell your class combination for people.
    I know some 3tank juggernaut too, to make mine handling easier, and easier tank swaps,giving healers more time to focus on raid, though i guess you know this, considered what you found about shamans
    Our raid is:

    T: dk, monk
    H: shaman, druid, pally
    D: SV hunter x 2, frost mage, destr lock, boomkin

    I just heard about 3 tanks but didn't pay too much attention. How many healers do you need with that strat then?

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    For Iron Juggernaut, are you talking about siegemode damage? If so, it's still very viable to let yourself stay knocked back and let raidmembers use Lockrocks / Personal CD / Healing CD as the rotation. Other than that, a large portion of the damage before siegemode is avoidable, and people should be spread as to not be hit by things multiple times.

    For Nazgrim, we generally save our big CD's for the end, and burst dps / 2nd pots at the end as well. Pushing that phase fast is a huge part of the victory. If you move him too early though, it becomes really difficult. With the last wave of adds, it's extra important not to get hit by the one mechanic that spanws more whirling blades (it escapes me at this time).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    For Iron Juggernaut, are you talking about siegemode damage? If so, it's still very viable to let yourself stay knocked back and let raidmembers use Lockrocks / Personal CD / Healing CD as the rotation. Other than that, a large portion of the damage before siegemode is avoidable, and people should be spread as to not be hit by things multiple times.

    For Nazgrim, we generally save our big CD's for the end, and burst dps / 2nd pots at the end as well. Pushing that phase fast is a huge part of the victory. If you move him too early though, it becomes really difficult. With the last wave of adds, it's extra important not to get hit by the one mechanic that spanws more whirling blades (it escapes me at this time).
    For Juggernaut I was talking about p1 when boss is moving and attacking tanks.

    For Nazgrim, hmm thanks <.<

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonleekungfu View Post
    Our raid is:

    T: dk, monk
    H: shaman, druid, pally
    D: SV hunter x 2, frost mage, destr lock, boomkin

    I just heard about 3 tanks but didn't pay too much attention. How many healers do you need with that strat then?
    3 healers is still by far the most comfortable for everybody.
    he have 592 million hp and enrages in 10 minutes so you need just below 1million dps, which shouldn't be that hard for you to get with 3 tanks+4 dps

    Edit:
    Discard that.
    Apparently a much shorter enrage.
    Last edited by Terridon; 2013-11-20 at 01:46 PM.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    3 healers is still by far the most comfortable for everybody.
    he have 592 million hp and enrages in 10 minutes so you need just below 1million dps, which shouldn't be that hard for you to get with 3 tanks+4 dps
    It's a 7 or 7 1/2 min enrage, not 10.

  8. #8
    Yea it was during 3rd p1. Our first kill barely made the timer, and our 3rd tank is not good at doing good dps yet so

  9. #9
    I really don't see a reason for 3 tanking juggernaut. The third tank will have no vengeance and will actually me taking more damage than a vengeanced up off tank. Have the first taunt swap occur at two and you'll have plenty of time for mines.

  10. #10
    The Patient Bloodydemize's Avatar
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    hmm soloing kaldris, sounds pretty difficult on heroic, 600k damage every few seconds from her spell cast, plus the iron prison, falling ash, slime adds, and toxic storm

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodydemize View Post
    hmm soloing kaldris, sounds pretty difficult on heroic, 600k damage every few seconds from her spell cast, plus the iron prison, falling ash, slime adds, and toxic storm
    I saw the video on both 25H and 10H. Looks like 25H indeed is a bit rough. They might still wipe before they got a kill. But that dude was like lol on 10H. I'd say other abilities are not really a problem. But it could put you in danger if they coincide with iron prison.

  12. #12
    Can you link the vid please? I'm intrigued about the shamans thing.

  13. #13
    If you tank them away from another, the tank on the hill won't get iron prison. We usually do it with 2 tanks on the hill with the rest of the raid down. There is really lots of ways to do this fight. Just figure out what works for you guild.

  14. #14
    For Iron Juggernaut: Everything but Laser Burn is avoidable in P1, so tell your raid to start moving out of the Ricochets, Borer Drills and Mortar Strikes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Can you link the vid please? I'm intrigued about the shamans thing.
    25H: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjI0OTE4NzY4.html
    10H: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjIzNDA2Mzgw.html

    Both website and video are in Chinese. Youku is kinda Chinese Youtude.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    For Iron Juggernaut: Everything but Laser Burn is avoidable in P1, so tell your raid to start moving out of the Ricochets, Borer Drills and Mortar Strikes.
    Don't forget Demolisher Cannons, an ability the dungeon journal shows only for P2 but is also active in P1 (at least on heroic)! It's also unavoidable and it's doing splash damage. Tell your mates to spread as a combination of inital Laser Burn and two or three Demolisher Cannons can be very deadly.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keashaa View Post
    Don't forget Demolisher Cannons, an ability the dungeon journal shows only for P2 but is also active in P1 (at least on heroic)! It's also unavoidable and it's doing splash damage. Tell your mates to spread as a combination of inital Laser Burn and two or three Demolisher Cannons can be very deadly.
    Even the Demolisher Cannons are avoidable if you keep an eye on the shadow on the ground of them when you hear them launching.
    If you use DBM (guess other bossmods work,too), every sawblade is announced with a *gong*and you just have to make a step aside to avoid it most likely. Everything but the laserburn is avoidable here, but the drills + blades are the most dangerous here, so Vereesa ist right.

    PS: you should never stack in the entire fight, even P2. Use the range of the AoE healing spells (healing rain etc.) to avoid getting hit by multiple cannons.

    For shamans: We do 2 tanks + 2 heals + 1 melee for haromm, tanking near the gate to Nazgrim and the rest (1 tank + 1 heal + 3 rDDs) for Kardis. Dunno if a DK can handle the adds + prison + falling ash alone without a heal.


    For Nazgrim: No specific rotation necessary. Just stay <75 rage (IIRC) so you don't get the massive aoe dmg. I don't remember the adds of these waves, but what kills you here?
    Our setup: 2 tanks, 2 heals, 3 melees, 3 ranges (melees focusing the arcane mage > sniper > rest and ranges shaman > rogue > rest)

    PS: Asians get higher item lvl loot, so I wouldn't favorite these videos alot for tactics.
    Last edited by Smaikiii; 2013-11-22 at 12:24 PM.
    Fire Mage 14/14 10H+25H <Integrity> @ EU-Eredar

  18. #18
    If you have problems with Juggernaut you can just swap the first debuff at 2, and it takes the sync off of Crawler Mines and Flame Vents, so there is no longer a mad rush for tanks to get to them after taking a huge hit from the 3rd debuff stack. We personally don't do this 'cause it hasn't been an issue before, but it is definitely an option to ease up on tank healing urgency.

  19. #19
    Iron Juggernaut

    As it was already said - drill and sawblade are avoidable. It only a matter of practice, once you learn how to avoid those the problem will solve itself. We found it easier when the people chased by the drill run in one direction away from the boss, less chance of them kiting it through someone not paying attention. You have 2 hunters and a paladin, that's three people that can pick up a mine in a pinch taking low/no damage, so mines shouldn't be that much of a problem.

    Shamans

    I don't think just 1 tank on Kardris is optimal before you massively overgear the encounter so stick to the 3 tank 3 healer split strat. You have no melee in your group, this already makes that strat easier - 2 tanks and 2 healers on Haromm, rest on Kardris with your holy paladin (healer with good absorbs makes Kardris infinitely easier).

    Nazgrim

    Keep in mind that adds stop spawning around the middle of the third defensive at which point you have ~2 minutes to just nuke the boss down, defensive stance or not. At the very worst he'll have 2 ravagers which, given that there are no adds, are easily avoided. When he calls his extra wave at 10% just have your offtank tank them and keep nuking the boss, even with some deaths he should go down. How exactly are you dying 5-6th wave? If you have problems with healing just go with 3 healers, the enrage timer is VERY forgiving.

  20. #20
    I do think people overthink ilvl difference sometimes and neglect the gameplay behind that. When the Chinese guild 1 healed and got 10H Garrosh first, people all said it's ilvl. But when Paragon beat that, they used the same strat, and so did everyone else. Can't blame ilvl for everything. He had 1.2M health in raid when he recorded those videos, which isn't crazily high for a dk. And even if ilvl makes that big difference, he did beat 25H with the same strat which is not easier than us, and if you watch the video it was their first kill.

    But thank you all for the advice. Some are very helpful indeed.

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