Do you think there should be a 2 random LFD queues depending on instance size/diffic?

[Deleted]

Since there are obviously different demands for how a dungeon should work out, wouldn't it be a better design to add different queues depending on the size/difficulty of the dungeon?

One group of instances where the heroic dungeons take 45-120 minutes with long corridors, optional bosses, difficult pulls, more complex boss fights with higher Valor/justice point rewards on completion/boss kill, a chance for a LFR ilvl epic when killing the end boss (low drop rate), and a goodie bag with random stuff in.

One group of instances where the heroic dungeon takes 15-25 minutes, similiar to most of Wotlk, 4.3 and MoP heroics.


With this system you would obviously be rewarded for your time effort, but in the end instances would be done depending on preferences and not force players into something they wouldn't like (assuming that gear drops and valor points earned per hour would be somewhat equal).

What are your opinions wether or not this system is ideal to be implemented?

[FunkyRaccoon]

*eye twitches as I remember that they're introducing Heroic Blackrock Spire, and expects it to take about an hour, and even more when it is first introduced*

*Will not be surprised if they redo BRD next*

I think we'll just have a mix of dungeons this time with the levelling ones being standard 20 minutes or so, but .. BRS ..... that one isn't 20 minutes even now at level. It would just be introducing yet another layer of progression, anyway, the way it'll work out.

And even a smooth LFR takes about an hour or so. Those to me are just glorified, one step up from dungeons with more detailed (and fun) mechanics. As someone who loved LFD when it came out, yeah, I like the ramping-up of LFR, without the "unpopular kid at the playground" feeling of spamming trade for groups .. and the gear I get from it is fine.

[blackblade]

I'd rather keep LFD queues to 'Short quick VP/JP farming' and keep the hard, co-ordinated stuff to pre-mades (kinda like H-Scen)

IMO, having longer, sprawling dungeons with a real lockout and award actual loot would be much cooler than having to deal with an LFD cartwheel, people dropping group midway, and people dropping group because the run is midway done and they wanna loot the first two bosses or something.

I'd love to see things like Challenge Modes, but without the massive background planning, and more about a hard dungeon with better loot than a time trial. (as opposed to a prestige thing with better VP rewards.)

[Deleted]

I'd rather keep LFD queues to 'Short quick VP/JP farming' and keep the hard, co-ordinated stuff to pre-mades (kinda like H-Scen)

IMO, having longer, sprawling dungeons with a real lockout and award actual loot would be much cooler than having to deal with an LFD cartwheel, people dropping group midway, and people dropping group because the run is midway done and they wanna loot the first two bosses or something.

I'd love to see things like Challenge Modes, but without the massive background planning, and more about a hard dungeon with better loot than a time trial. (as opposed to a prestige thing with better VP rewards.)

Well I'd assume that if this was ever to be implemented people who queue as premades/semi premades would probably prefer the long version.

I'd personally also prefer if there could exists old school type of dungeons outside of the LFD system (similiar to how Cata heroics at launch mostly were played), but I don't think Blizzard would ever not utilize the LFD tool for any type of loot-rewarding dungeon (there's just too many players who exclusively only use this feature).

[Deleted]

Indeed, it would be nice to have some kind of very long adventure in some classical, fantasy dungeons, à la Vanilla Blackrock !

For people that would like to spend an entire evening with some friends in a mysterious place, trying to get cool treasures ! (NOT to get fast VP)

My dream would be:

_ Flexible group, anything from 3 (1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps) to 6/8.
_ Random ! Not the same place over and over, so you'll never know what would happened in the next room.
_ Traps and riddles. Rogues could disarm them, or some other classes with specific spells for extra rewards / less damage.

[Bloodclaut]

it could help if done correctly

[Giscoicus]

Since there are obviously different demands for how a dungeon should work out, wouldn't it be a better design to add different queues depending on the size/difficulty of the dungeon?

One group of instances where the heroic dungeons take 45-120 minutes with long corridors, optional bosses, difficult pulls, more complex boss fights with higher Valor/justice point rewards on completion/boss kill, a chance for a LFR ilvl epic when killing the end boss (low drop rate), and a goodie bag with random stuff in.

One group of instances where the heroic dungeon takes 15-25 minutes, similiar to most of Wotlk, 4.3 and MoP heroics.


With this system you would obviously be rewarded for your time effort, but in the end instances would be done depending on preferences and not force players into something they wouldn't like (assuming that gear drops and valor points earned per hour would be somewhat equal).

What are your opinions wether or not this system is ideal to be implemented?

Hard dungeons should drop better gear than LOLFR unless they seriously bump up LFRs difficulty, or make it enjoyable as a gear process and not something that is why I stop caring about a lot of my alts at 90.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed, it would be nice to have some kind of very long adventure in some classical, fantasy dungeons, à la Vanilla Blackrock !

For people that would like to spend an entire evening with some friends in a mysterious place, trying to get cool treasures ! (NOT to get fast VP)

My dream would be:

_ Flexible group, anything from 3 (1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps) to 6/8.
_ Random ! Not the same place over and over, so you'll never know what would happened in the next room.
_ Traps and riddles. Rogues could disarm them, or some other classes with specific spells for extra rewards / less damage.

No. Needing a rogue to do better is a bad idea.

[Deleted]

Hard dungeons should drop better gear than LOLFR unless they seriously bump up LFRs difficulty, or make it enjoyable as a gear process and not something that is why I stop caring about a lot of my alts at 90.

Loot shouldn't really be the main drive behind doing these instances to be honest. It would just pull in the wrong audience, which wont work when you have a system like LFD (Cata proves this). While I agree that you should be rewarded for your effort, there could still be achievements, profession related items or cosmetic rewards instead of just gear loot.

But overall I agree that there is a clear lack of gear step in between heroic dungeons and normals that is currently only filled by LFR.

[Giscoicus]

Loot shouldn't really be the main drive behind doing these instances to be honest. It would just pull in the wrong audience, which wont work when you have a system like LFD (Cata proves this). While I agree that you should be rewarded for your effort, there could still be achievements, profession related items or cosmetic rewards instead of just gear loot.

I'm just saying that hard and time consuming content should not have a chance to drop something from an easier mode. It should drop better gear.

Normal dungeons------>Heroic Dungeons---->Raiding
l
l
V
LFR as a side path for those who cannot handle heroic dungeons without a gear advantage

[Deleted]

I'm just saying that hard and time consuming content should not have a chance to drop something from an easier mode. It should drop better gear.

Normal dungeons------>Heroic Dungeons---->Raiding
l
l
V
LFR as a side path for those who cannot handle heroic dungeons without a gear advantage

Yes, I did edit my post before I read yours.

Here it is:

But overall I agree that there is a clear lack of a gear step in between heroic dungeons and normals that is currently only filled by LFR.

[Giscoicus]

Yes, I did edit my post before I read yours.

Here it is:

Actually, my diagram got messed up. I said LFR should be an optional path between normal dungeons and heroics, but heroics still being doable in normal mode gear. LFR can be for 1) seeing content and 2) minor gear help.

[Deleted]

Actually, my diagram got messed up. I said LFR should be an optional path between normal dungeons and heroics, but heroics still being doable in normal mode gear. LFR can be for 1) seeing content and 2) minor gear help.

Yes, that would be my preference as well, and in the ideal world I would like to see this implemented. But where heroic dungeons will be outdated in a tier, LFR will always be relevant. And to be honest I think Blizzard would rather just make a LFR version of an already created raid rather than develop 3-5 new dungeons each tier for people to farm relevant gear. Not to say I'd much rather prefer to gear up doing a couple of long, great instances rather than super dumped down version of a raid.

But LFR is not really the main focus of the topic presented.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

There should be, and they should be called "Dungeon" and "Scenario."

And both should be 5-players.

[Giscoicus]

Yes, that would be my preference as well, and in the ideal world I would like to see this implemented. But where heroic dungeons will be outdated in a tier, LFR will always be relevant. And to be honest I think Blizzard would rather just make a LFR version of an already created raid rather than develop 3-5 new dungeons each tier for people to farm relevant gear. Not to say I'd much rather prefer to gear up doing a couple of long, great instances rather than super dumped down version of a raid.

But LFR is not really the main focus of the topic presented.

They have already said that they will be making more heroic dungeons this time around, and realsing more than just launch, again why there should be no extra rewards in them, they should just have higher rewards in the first place.