1. #1
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    combat off-hand weapon of choice

    is it viable to use two slow weapons for a combat rogue? will u get lol'ed at if u don't use a fast dagger in the oh? i've been out of wow for a while so i wasn't sure whats going on.

    thx
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  2. #2
    Slow offhands are fine for combat.

  3. #3
    The correct answer is always a slow weapon because they look better transmogged.

  4. #4
    Actually nazgrim dagger(574) is showed as like 4th bis in my gear only better is 574/580 sword from spoils even 580 mace from IJ is lower listed in ShC. As offhand ofc and difference from 553 sword>574 dagger yelds in around 4k dps difference.
    So i'd say it depends on gear and encounter i supose for bladeflurry slow offhand might be better while for mostly single target fights pick what sims highest for you.

  5. #5
    I think where it comes down to it killing spree benefits a lot more from 2 slow weapons while if you have a fast oh you'll apply more poisons. But seriously. What's more important in this game: killing bosses or looking good while killing bosses?

  6. #6
    Slow weapon has been slightly ahead in DPS compared to a fast weapon for the whole expansion. With AoC and 4pc t16 that gap has widened and a slow weapon in offhand is the best choice as long as the fast weapon you're comparing it to is at most half a tier higher.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Macor View Post
    Actually nazgrim dagger(574) is showed as like 4th bis in my gear only better is 574/580 sword from spoils even 580 mace from IJ is lower listed in ShC. As offhand ofc and difference from 553 sword>574 dagger yelds in around 4k dps difference.
    So i'd say it depends on gear and encounter i supose for bladeflurry slow offhand might be better while for mostly single target fights pick what sims highest for you.
    This is because the gear on that list does not take the proper reforge into account. If you want the correct answer you have to actually select the weapon and hit autoreforge. Record the numbers produced by each of these. The reallity is Ilvl is king. If both weapons are the same ilvl the slow weapon wins (especially with 4pc) by a small margin. BiS is double drill with a full heroic bis gear set iirc.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Macor View Post
    Actually nazgrim dagger(574) is showed as like 4th bis in my gear only better is 574/580 sword from spoils even 580 mace from IJ is lower listed in ShC.
    Make sure to reforge for each item. Nazgrim's is listed so high because your gear is based off of that slot having expertise.

    @OP: Use whatever you have that is the highest ilvl. There are also minion gains for slow offhand when cleaving, and minor gains for fast offhand when Killing Spree cannot be used optimally.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster OneSent's Avatar
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    This is the answer Noxe gave to a similar question asked on the Method rogue forums:
    if same ilvl then go for 2.6
    Last edited by OneSent; 2013-11-20 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Slow weapon has been slightly ahead in DPS compared to a fast weapon for the whole expansion. With AoC and 4pc t16 that gap has widened and a slow weapon in offhand is the best choice as long as the fast weapon you're comparing it to is at most half a tier higher.
    It's not that cut and dried. My research (in both shadowcraft and simcraft) says fast is better unless you have 4pc T16. AoC is off-hand speed agnostic. more KS = better for slow but more AR/SB = better with fast offhand (SB being on yellow hit means more poison procs during adrenblades, which favors a fast offhand)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    It's not that cut and dried. My research (in both shadowcraft and simcraft) says fast is better unless you have 4pc T16. AoC is off-hand speed agnostic. more KS = better for slow but more AR/SB = better with fast offhand (SB being on yellow hit means more poison procs during adrenblades, which favors a fast offhand)
    How big of a difference is fast vs. slow without the 4 pc.?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    How big of a difference is fast vs. slow without the 4 pc.?
    My findings suggest about the same difference as with the 4-pc, but in the opposite direction. For my rogue a fast offhand was about 400 dps better without t16 4-pc, but a slow offhand was better by about 500 dps with the set bonus. We're talking about a couple hundred dps over a couple hundred thousand (less than 1% difference with or without the set bonus).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    How big of a difference is fast vs. slow without the 4 pc.?
    At the end of the Day, Ilvl is what matters. The consensus is that slow/slow is better but if you've got for example a normal slow weapon and a warforged fast weapon drops, take the fast weapon for OH.

  14. #14
    Ok this is something of a change to me that I wouldn't mind if someone briefly explained WHEN it changed ?

    I raided Cata and all before it and back then combat was always based around the following...

    MH: Slowest possible (Usually a sword/mace/fist/etc with 2.6 or slower)
    OH: Fastest possible (Nearly always a dagger with 1.4)

    Are people now telling me that it's optimal to wield slow weapons in both MH & OH as combat spec ?

  15. #15
    Get my weapon, it seems great for combat!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Verain/simple




    In seriousness, what was said is correct. Slow offhands do more damage during killing spree, fast ones get more poison procs. It was carefully balanced by the devs to work out. The correct advice is use the higher item level in pve, and be sure to have two slow weapons in pvp. Not that most rogues pvp as combat, but if you do, double slow only way to go.

    If you have identical ilvl, the slow will normally be just a dash ahead- so yes, it's optimal, technically. If a fight prevents the use of spree on cooldown, then consider the dagger offhand.


    Spoogles, the detail is this:

    In the old days, we had two-three mechanics that worked on speed. Poison application (was and is a flat percent, as it was always deadly), energy return (was a flat percent), and at one time, main gauche and sword specialization (was a percent based on gear or a flat percent).

    Of these, poison application remains, and is counteracted by the superior killing spree, while energy return is now a ppm mechanic (not rppm, normal old ppm) such that you can expect the same number of procs regardless of speed, and main gauche now triggers from mainhand only, thus completing the cycle of making no fucking sense at all. We sinister strike (left strike) with our right hands, and we main gauche (left hand) with our right hands, procced from attacks with our right hands. I'm surprised we don't have a Main Hand Strike that uses our offhand.

  16. #16
    Spoogles - the mechanics Verain lists above changed in 5.0, specifically. Closing this vaguely-necro/off-topic thread before people start trying to answer the original question again.

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