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  1. #121
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I'd prefer not to have a team of high performing people that are dicks. For me its almost equal priority between "fit"/ performance in role / raid awareness.

    An application should be evaluating all of those 3, not just kickass logs. Of course some people may differ but I raid 9 hours a week too and I couldn't imagine spending that time with high performers who I don't like. Face it, you're 12/14 so hardly cutting edge so taking other stuff into account wouldn't hurt.

    The same is the case for me as a guild officer/Co. GM when we recruit. We do have an application template and we do expect people to make a detailed app - including logs and screenshots.

    But the application is only part of it imo. Players may be very skilled, have impressive logs, neat looking UI's and lots of experience - none of that will matter in the end, if they're either dicks or just don't fit in with the rest of the team.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    hahaha and people wonder why guilds are dying... it's because stupid shit like applications.
    Yeah, this stupid shit like applications is needed for high end guilds though. Maybe not for casual guilds still doing Normal mode on a 3 day schedule but for Heroic guilds, that's just the way it is. Good luck getting into any decent raiding guild, if that's your attitude. And should you find a guild that has no application process, I'd dare say it's a casual guild with only Normal kills - in which case you're right - it won't matter jack shit anyways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    ask shit ingame, run a trial raid, see how the player is doing... ofc it could be facilitated by blizzard too... via an ingame application tool that is actually decent.

    me and my friend in tbc(me hunter, him rogue) caused our new guild's class leaders to quit the guild... after they denied our applications due to lack of raiding experience we seeked the GM ingame and aksed him to join a pug with us and after the run he invited us to the guild ... the first raid we proceeded to mop the floor with both the hunter class leader and the rogue one... and they left mid raid... just gquit during the last boss fight.

    That's when we stopped doing applications and instead spoke to the GM's directly to go on pugs with us on trial runs.


    sadly we are both a shell of our former selves now...
    Again, you have to distinguish between casual guilds and Heroic guilds here. Do you really expect a guild progressing on Heroic Garrosh to just bring you along for a free ride? Sure, call it a trial. But the odds that someone with the same progress as us would join this late in the Tier are really slim. We don't have the time nor will to boost potential recruits through Heroic content, just cause they cbf writing an application. The application weeds out the worst, so only the best are offered a trial.

  2. #122
    Brewmaster Cherrypowdah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtacle View Post
    I prefer trial run(s) to big guild applications/interviews, you actually get to see if they really know fights/their class. Simply filling out some application putting in whatever you know the guild wants to hear is nothing new.
    Most people dont perform that well under pressure, not having raided with the other people before, etc. Also you cant really say anything from just 1 run, whereas most things written in an application can be checked for facts.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    So you've never filled any form for anything other than job?
    Not when the form asked things like "why do you think you'd be a good fit", or "list your prior experience"... no I haven't.

    I was being a bit sarcastic anyhow.

    /well, like 5% sarcastic.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
    Plox. I got your plox right fucking here. - Animalhouse

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Right, you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Let's just blindly g-invite the first well-geared guy that wants in. Even though he's a clicker (keybindings / UI request), hops from guild to guild (history report), and performs horribly (logs).

    All that gear that gets funneled to him/her in the first few raid resets won't slow you down at all.


    /boggle

    Applications don't have to be long...if you're bothered by applying for a guild, you really don't deserve nor have any business being in the raiding scene.
    If somebody is performing horribly, you will know by the time the first boss dies

    And don't forget it guildmaster or officers that decide what to write in the application.
    I've seen applications where i had to write over 2 pages, because there were a million questions and it said yes/no was not good enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    However, when I heal, I use the Blizzard raid frames because they offer easily viewable feedback. Grid is too messy for me, and ElvUI's raid frames are terrible for keeping track of HoTs.
    Same here, blizzard raid frames with mouseover macros worked better than any "necessary" healer addon
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  5. #125
    You probably wouldn't be a huge fan of applying to our guild then. We are pretty strict when it comes to trials, so it's really good to get as much information as we can. Sure we can probably clean up the application a little bit as it does seem a bit dated.

    About yourself:

    1) Name/Age:

    2) Time Zone:

    3) About yourself and work/school schedule:

    About your toon:

    1) Name/Class:

    2) Spec/Talent Trees:

    3) Armory Link:

    4) Professions:

    5) UI Screenshot (preferably in raid combat):

    6) List All/Any Relevant Keybinds (if not clearly visible in UI ss):

    7) Link a recent WoL/WMO parse:

    8) /played:

    About your setup:

    1) Computer Spec:

    2) Insert Speed Test (http://www.speedtest.net/ - Boston test server)

    3) Insert Ping Test (http://www.pingtest.net/ - Atlanta test server)

    4) We assume you have/can get and USE Mumble and a MIC w/in a raid setting?

    Qualifications:

    <The Horsemen> raid times (EST):
    Tues: 9:30 PM - 12:30 AM
    Thurs: 9:30 PM - 12:30 AM
    Sun: 9:30 PM - 12:30 AM

    1) 90% attendance is required from our main raiders. Can you consistently make these raid times to meet the attendance requirements?

    2) What attributes do you have that you feel could benefit <The Horsemen>?

    3) Reasons for wanting to join <The Horsemen>?

    4) We have many quality raiders that are consistently fighting for a 25m spot. We utilize our guild members to create the best raid comp for each fight/encounter. If you are asked to sit, is that an issue?

    5) How do you take constructive criticism and what measures do you take to improve?

    6) Please list a previous raiding experience where you have exemplified exceptional raiding qualities (e.g. quickly changing strategies, stepping into a non-traditional role, or bettering your raid by serving as a support role)?

    7) What steps do you personally take to enhance your raid performance and the overall raid's performance?

    8) Guild History (Be EXTREMELY detailed):

    9) Previous raid experience:

    10) Are you applying to other guilds? Who?
    Last edited by Runewrath; 2013-11-22 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Dat formatting

  6. #126
    Wonder if my 924 days /played on my main would be in "wow this guy has no life" territory, lol. Or is there someone higher? Anyhow, solid template. Was wondering what goes into maintaining a 9 hour/week 25m guild raiding at that level, and it always starts with good recruitment. My guild raids nearly double that (4 daysx4 hours), so we're not on as on the ball about learning everything we can (ie: work schedules). Only around 75% attendance at best is expected. I might look into seeing if my guild can adapt some of these questions without letting it get too long.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2013-11-22 at 09:16 PM.

  7. #127
    I would say our key to success is our preparation outside of raids. Our raid leader is a god when it comes to formulating strats, and getting our raiders to execute them properly in a timely manner.

  8. #128
    Most definitely. Every great guild has their strategy guys (or guy) that theorycraft outside raid times along with those that keep the recruitment side and the roster in tip-top shape. They are thankless duties, done it myself for several years, but ultimately rewarding when it all comes together.

  9. #129
    As the person who recruits for their guild i think applications are a huge waste of time, i mean you ask people stupid questions that they can just pretty up to look good, for everyone i recruited i just add them and ask them a few questions and then take them in mumble and talk for a few minutes, ez and so much better than dealing with apps.

  10. #130
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    One good section would be salary requirements.
    Free heroic quality epics, free flasks, free buff food, free potions, free repairs, free gems and free enchants. Is that enough for you, or do you expect people to pay you to enjoy yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherrypowdah View Post
    Most people dont perform that well under pressure...
    If so, they probably don't belong in a heroic guild anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by hareu View Post
    As the person who recruits for their guild i think applications are a huge waste of time, i mean you ask people stupid questions that they can just pretty up to look good, for everyone i recruited i just add them and ask them a few questions and then take them in mumble and talk for a few minutes, ez and so much better than dealing with apps.
    Have you ever considered making a better application template, asking people the kind of questions you'd ask them on Mumble? Most people here seem to be keen on asking people a whole bunch of stuff I personally wouldn't care about at all, but I like it when I can skim through an application and immediately weed out the worst applicants. It is possible to make good application templates. Just because most guild (and employers) lack imagination and ask the same standard questions doesn't mean you have to. Of course, sometimes asking "standard" questions is an intentional strategy to see if the candidate has bothered to think about good answers to those questions. If not, they may not be people you want anyway.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #131
    Guild Apps is necessary, they are like a filter, you should be amazed by the amount of people that cant simply follow a basic guides of how to write the app and upload a screenshot to any image host like imgur or imageshack and they expect to join a heroic guild, If you analyze a player app you find a lot of useful information, you can see the guy dedication and effort to join to your guild, the "anything else to add" i consider it a trap question, and sometimes its add a lot of weight to the player app, its make them think: should i leave it blank? they will think im lazy, but what relevant information they want?

    About the ui, plug and play ui = modded default ui.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    I would say our key to success is our preparation outside of raids. Our raid leader is a god when it comes to formulating strats, and getting our raiders to execute them properly in a timely manner.
    You lot are good at what you do, we are about two weeks behind you in terms of progress and I feel like we have had a pretty tight tier, with only the occasional slip. A lot of the stuff in your form I take for a given with my applicants such as stable connection, that is generally easy to see from performance in logs. I guess for myself, at the heart of it, I am not really interested in what an applicant thinks of themselves, I don't particularly trust people to critique themselves effectively and if I am happy with the state of their character in terms of gear and progress I am happy to do the digging and find the information I want.

    We haven't made a great deal of mistakes in terms of recruitment my biggest problem this expac has been returning raiders who haven't lasted the course, people who have been in the guild for a long time taken a tier out and returned then left mid-tier; we ask that any recruits/raiders see out a full tier with us and let us know if they are leaving with sufficient time to replace them, we are raiding with players that can play at the top if they want to put more hours into it and occasionally we get people that leave to go hardcore and that's not an issue for us. I think the only recruits that haven't worked out this tier are those that we have recruited in a rush when we have needed a particular class for something ie. DK on lei Shen.

    What do people think about applicants applying to several guilds at once? Personally this doesn't bother me I don't expect someone that is guildless to put an app into my guild wait for me to take my sweet ass time to potentially decline it then they have to start the process over again with another guild; what would bother me is if someone has applied to several guilds and I offer them a spot and they leave me waiting while hearing back from another guild.

  13. #133
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    hahaha and people wonder why guilds are dying... it's because stupid shit like applications.
    nah. only the ones without applications are dead. they have masses of useless players, but are dead none the less.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    Vuhdo is 20x better. A person of equivalent skill will perform far better with it compared to default.

    Practically any raid frame addon for healers is better than default.
    Can you explain why exactly? What is it about Vuhdu that makes the addon 20x better than default.

    I can't work it out.
    Last edited by Heri; 2013-11-23 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Heri View Post
    Can you explain why exactly? What is it about Vuhdu that makes the addon 20x better than default.

    I can't work it out.
    Inn general any addon's for raid frame is better, not just vuhdo. Blizzard stock UI inn general blows, and it looks ugly/dated
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  16. #136
    There isn't necessarily anything wrong with the default UI, it just lacks the level of customization that Vuhdo/Grid have. If you can make the default UI work for you and show you the information that you want/need to see to perform optimally, then it's fine. I find I don't have anywhere near the level of customization I need without using a unit frame addon.

  17. #137
    Applications are gay. Seriously? I have to apply to be part of a guild? Give me a break.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucious View Post
    Applications are gay. Seriously? I have to apply to be part of a guild? Give me a break.
    You dont apply to be part of the guild, you apply to be part of the raid roster.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Migraine View Post
    What do people think about applicants applying to several guilds at once? Personally this doesn't bother me I don't expect someone that is guildless to put an app into my guild wait for me to take my sweet ass time to potentially decline it then they have to start the process over again with another guild; what would bother me is if someone has applied to several guilds and I offer them a spot and they leave me waiting while hearing back from another guild.
    Why would that bother you? It more than within an applicants right to do that. However, if they leave you waiting, its also more than within your rights to say thanks but no thanks. If its a promising applicant that would just be a stupid thing to do though.

    Whenever I see questions about what guilds people apply to I secretly wish I could make an apply and answer that with "thats none of your business" and see how they react. Because, quite frankly, just like when you apply to jobs and similar stuff IRL, that IS none of their business.

    If any guild would ever consider it to be a detrimental factor that a player applies to other guilds at the same time as their own, thats just "on a high horse"-thinking and should be considered a problem with the guilds recruitment policy rather than anything else.
    Last edited by Krebosh; 2013-11-25 at 02:23 PM.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    ask shit ingame, run a trial raid, see how the player is doing... ofc it could be facilitated by blizzard too... via an ingame application tool that is actually decent.

    me and my friend in tbc(me hunter, him rogue) caused our new guild's class leaders to quit the guild... after they denied our applications due to lack of raiding experience we seeked the GM ingame and aksed him to join a pug with us and after the run he invited us to the guild ... the first raid we proceeded to mop the floor with both the hunter class leader and the rogue one... and they left mid raid... just gquit during the last boss fight.

    That's when we stopped doing applications and instead spoke to the GM's directly to go on pugs with us on trial runs.


    sadly we are both a shell of our former selves now...

    We will usually do apps to screen people. It's really important to us when it's someone on Alliance side, and we can't trial them in a flex and they'd have to pay $55 for a server/faction change combo. It's more to save people time and money than anything else.
    Plus having some bad transfer to your guild and flop is annoying when they rage at the money they spent.

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