1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Is there a best spec for undergeared toons?

    I just hit 90, I have full timeless isle gear except a neck, 1 trinket slot and both weapons. My ilvl is 486. My question is, is there a better spec that will do more dps at lower ilvls? Right now I am assassination. I have zero experience with rogues at max level so any info would be nice. I looked around on the forum and did not really see an answer.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Jassinta's Avatar
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    I would be inclined to suggest staying assassination. I never swapped out of assassination until I started SoO raiding, however I'm not sure how much assassination has been affected by the recent nerfs, but I still think it's your best option, especially if you have a lack of knowledge on rogues, as it's one of the simplest rotations to manage.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jassinta View Post
    I'm not sure how much assassination has been affected by the recent nerfs
    It was partially un-buffed from what we had at lower ilevels (increased, then the increase removed - partly - increased active damage remains, but the + to assassin's resolve was reverted).

    Simming your character gives the best answer, but in short: if your weapons are on-par or behind your average gear, assassination is DEFINITELY ahead. If your MH (2.6) is significantly ahead, Combat may be ahead (check, or play it as preferred); if your MH (1.8) is significantly above your average, Subtlety may be ahead (check, or play as preferred).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    It was partially un-buffed from what we had at lower ilevels (increased, then the increase removed - partly - increased active damage remains, but the + to assassin's resolve was reverted).

    Simming your character gives the best answer, but in short: if your weapons are on-par or behind your average gear, assassination is DEFINITELY ahead. If your MH (2.6) is significantly ahead, Combat may be ahead (check, or play it as preferred); if your MH (1.8) is significantly above your average, Subtlety may be ahead (check, or play as preferred).
    Is shadowcraft simming Sub too high then? I am in the same boat as the OP (pretty much all timesless gear but with 450 ilvl daggers) and shadowcraft is showing sub about 20k higher than assassination which I thought was odd since I thought sub was generally highly gear dependent (havent played rogue since Dragon Soul).

    "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath; now for ruin, and the red dawn!"

  5. #5
    Shadowcraft is a gearing tool, not a spec comparison one. I somtimes wonder how many times that has to be repeated. On the same note, shadowcraft does not simulate anything, it's formulation. Simming (as implied in Kael's post) implies using Simcraft instead.
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  6. #6
    At lower gear levels, I would say Assassination is still the way to go.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Nightman's Avatar
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    Assassination, and its easy to play

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Shadowcraft is a gearing tool, not a spec comparison one. I somtimes wonder how many times that has to be repeated. On the same note, shadowcraft does not simulate anything, it's formulation. Simming (as implied in Kael's post) implies using Simcraft instead.
    I was under the impression that Shadowcraft was like Femaledwarf, in that it ran simulations to get its DPS calculations. If thats not the case I can see the disconnect now.

    "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath; now for ruin, and the red dawn!"

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelroc View Post
    I was under the impression that Shadowcraft was like Femaledwarf, in that it ran simulations to get its DPS calculations. If thats not the case I can see the disconnect now.
    It is just like Femaledwarf (but slightly better). The thing is, your understanding of femaledwarf is wrong as well. Femaledwarf does not do simulations. Its just a complicated spreadsheet. It even says at the top "This is a web based adaptation of Shandara's Hunter DPS Spreadsheet."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    It is just like Femaledwarf (but slightly better). The thing is, your understanding of femaledwarf is wrong as well. Femaledwarf does not do simulations. Its just a complicated spreadsheet. It even says at the top "This is a web based adaptation of Shandara's Hunter DPS Spreadsheet."
    Ah ok, so akin to Landsoul's warrior spreadsheet. Thanks for clearing that up.

    "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath; now for ruin, and the red dawn!"

  11. #11
    Baelroc: for a good understanding of what shadowcraft is and why it isn't a sim, read this excellent blog post by fierydemise:

    http://roguechat.wordpress.com/2013/...ns-and-models/

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    I just hit 90, I have full timeless isle gear except a neck, 1 trinket slot and both weapons. My ilvl is 486. My question is, is there a better spec that will do more dps at lower ilvls? Right now I am assassination. I have zero experience with rogues at max level so any info would be nice. I looked around on the forum and did not really see an answer.
    As much as my rogue buddies try to help, they can't help themselves get sidetracked at times, so let me help clear this up. Here is the direct answer you are looking for:

    -Go with Assassination or Combat, based on whatever weapons you have.

    Explanation:

    If your highest ilevel weapon is a dagger, and you have at least some kind of decent second dagger, stay Assassination. If your highest ilevel weapon is a mace, fist weapon, axe, or sword, go combat, and then use your next best ilevel weapon in your offhand (can be dagger, sword, mace, axe, fist)

    Assassination and Combat are close enough in dps that the ilevel of your weapon will make the bigger difference versus what spec you use (assuming generally equal competency)

    tl;dr - Assassin if your best weapon is a dagger, combat if your best weapon is anything that isn't a dagger.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    I managed to gear up my rogue from 435-ish(basically questing gear) to 501 in 1 afternoon and I didn't buy a single piece from AH.
    -Managed to get almost full 496 from chests
    -Used Burden after I was done with HC Scenario guaranteed 516(so I didn't get the odd chance of getting 516 piece when I already had 535 for that slot)
    -Kept farming rares all the time, they dropped a bunch of coins and missing Timeless pieces and also got another Burden(Hit/Crit helm roll though >_>)
    -Did all the quests apart from Reach Honored and 50 Stones.

    If you kill the Ship/Shark every hour like I did, you should have near 20k coins so you can buy 2x 476 daggers.

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