Thread: MM Help wanted

  1. #1
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    MM Help wanted

    So I've ran all the Flexes this week as MM so far. And I like what I'm seeing. I feel like the opener is a lil clunky but most likely its just rust. I was wondering if any GOOD MM Hunters would help out with what the opener should look like. I tried to reach out to Walajanilu on blackrock but apparently he quit, And Conjor is always busy it seems. Are there any other top tier hunters out there playing MM with good results willing to share some info. Also I was wondering if my gear is itemized for the spec http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jonez/advanced if not let me know. Just hate the despawning of my pet when Playing BM and the LoLness of SV. So I'm hoping to get some good insight so I can play MM with out my GM complaining about not playing FoTM spec. " The other hunters are playing SV why you gonna go MM?". All criticism constructive and otherwise is appreciated. Thanx in advance.

    -BowsBeforeHoes

  2. #2
    This isn't exactly what you are after but your GM is kind of right. If you're planning to play MM for every fight in SoO then you aren't benefiting your raid as much as you could be. It is pretty much equal, maybe a little worse than the other specs single target if you have a good weapon, but in cleave/aoe situations? Nope, it's shit. You either need to go full out aoe, or not do it at all. You have no real way of multidotting efficiently like SV, you can't just keep up a cleaving buff like BM can, and even in full out aoe scenarios MM is lacking. I really wouldn't recommend you playing it for every encounter. A good spec to roll with alongside it would be SV, as you can't really go wrong with SV for multidotting/aoe/single target. BM still has its pet issues so I wouldn't choose that as an off spec if you're going MM main spec or you will find yourself in situations where neither MM/BM will be great on the particular fight. (Spoils springs to mind)

  3. #3
    I haven't tested this properly, but I think MM AoE is better than people give it credit for. At least in situations where you can just tunnel multishots with TotH for a decent amount of time it's actually pretty beastly.


    I was messing around with MM last week as well, and while I wouldn't say I'm top tier, I did find your logs and mine were a fair bit better, so if you have any questions I'll answer best I can. The problem is that if you look at the top MM logs every single person is playing it differently, so I don't know how many concrete answers you're going to get. I've been winging it.

    This is my experience from last week -
    MM is not as enjoyable as it used to be. There's no perceptible DPS difference between AiS and AS dump. TotH feels very wasteful but I think it's still good for AS dump especially if there's AoE to be had. Aimed dump is clunky as all hell and makes it hard to fire Chim on CD. 4pc blows chunks. Some times 2x steady doesn't give the steady focus buff. I would not play MM on progression.


    I don't think your GM is wrong to complain if you're playing MM on progression. If you can pull similar DPS as MM then that's a different story, but in that case you should probably improve your BM/SV. At some point on the 'casual to hardcore' spectrum it becomes not-okay to play inferior specs just because you feel like it. 7/14H is past that point imo.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ReklessJonez View Post
    So I'm hoping to get some good insight so I can play MM with out my GM complaining about not playing FoTM spec. " The other hunters are playing SV why you gonna go MM?". All criticism constructive and otherwise is appreciated. Thanx in advance.

    -BowsBeforeHoes
    Outperform the other Hunters, laugh in their face and taunt them over Mumble/Vent/TS. Pretty much what I did, the other Hunter and I have a fun rivalry going on with much taunting going on. My GM seems to be the target of all jokes so I also mentioned "If the GM(a Warlock) can badly play all his specs, why can't I play all my specs greatly?"

    That probably won't work for you though.

    I feel like my opener changes on an attempt to attempt basis. But here is what I seem to like the best:

    -1.8 Prepot>Aimed Shot
    0 Serpent Sting
    Rapid Fire>Stampede
    Steady Shot
    Steady Shot
    Amoc
    Fervor>Chim
    Aimed
    GT
    Followed by tons of SS/AiS spam while hitting Chim on CD as best as I can.

    Does it work the best? It might, I didn't do any math on it. However, I put everything on CD as best I can.

    Also, you don't always have to cast Steady Shots in pairs, you have a 20 second buff, you can refresh as late as you need too. (Tip in case you didn't know)

    Quote Originally Posted by mediic View Post
    Some times 2x steady doesn't give the steady focus buff.
    Thought I was the only one with this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mediic View Post
    If you can pull similar DPS as MM then that's a different story, but in that case you should probably improve your BM/SV.
    MM can pull similar if not better numbers on single target. AOE/Cleave not so much, so it limits what fights you can really play progression MM on. Mainly Malkorok and Iron Juggernaut. But with certain comps, you can prioritize your single target over your AOE. My group this week had 3 Ele Shamans, 2 Warlocks, and tons of other AOE. So I didn't bother doing much AOE (if any at all) on Norushen, Sha, and Dark Shamans. And I was right to, the adds died SO fast my globals would have been (pretty much) wasted.

    WoL and Simcraft results (take with a grain of salt)
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site || Stream: 5-9pm PST Tues/Wed/Thurs || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355

  5. #5
    Is Mastery better than haste for MM? You've reforged quite heavily into Mastery. Shouldn't Crit/Haste be your best stats?

    You're also missing both Engineering tinkers.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    -1.8 Prepot>Aimed Shot
    0 Serpent Sting
    Rapid Fire>Stampede
    Steady Shot
    Steady Shot
    Amoc
    Fervor>Chim
    Aimed
    GT
    Followed by tons of SS/AiS spam while hitting Chim on CD as best as I can.
    EDIT: I misread, woops, it's late... Didn't see the precasted Aimed shot and was confused about the early steady x2 lol. You think precast is worth it?
    Not sure why you prioritise aimed shot over GT at the end, wouldn't you logically never cast GT in that case?

    I generally do something like this:

    Prepot, Serpent Sting
    Chimera Shot
    Rapid Fire, Stampede
    Steady
    Steady
    AmoC
    GT
    DB/Fervor
    some combination of aimed, steady, arcane and keeping spells on CD.

    Makes a lot more sense to me, but I don't think getting a 100% optimal opener is terribly important. Certainly cant argue with your great results
    Last edited by mediic; 2013-11-20 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #7
    Stay away from hardcasting Aimed to start the pull. It is a waste of pot time and feels clunky and is sub-par dps optimization . I quit a month ago so i dont quite remember my starting rotation, but ill give it a try.
    Pot, Chimera(hope for crit -->piercing shots)
    Serpent
    Rapid Fire + buffs, Stamp
    DB
    MoC
    Steadyx2 (massive focus regen happening)
    Aimedx2
    Steadyx2
    Chimera
    I stay away from GlaiveToss unless there are adds out or until the boss is under 80%. It is not worth it until then; Aimed shot is guarentee crit usually and hits harder than GT.

    A lot of your starting dps depends on your rng with Aimed Shot proccs because there are times when you can basically chain 3 back to back for guarantee crits. A month ago with 574 ilvl, there were only a few times where was able to break 1.2 mil burst dps. it usually peaks at around 900k if i recall correctly.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mediic View Post
    I haven't tested this properly, but I think MM AoE is better than people give it credit for. At least in situations where you can just tunnel multishots with TotH for a decent amount of time it's actually pretty beastly.
    You might want to test it before you suggest it. It's bloody awful. I was around 200k less on Galakras when I tried it vs when I use my BM spec.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Walajanilu View Post
    Stay away from hardcasting Aimed to start the pull. It is a waste of pot time and feels clunky and is sub-par dps optimization . I quit a month ago so i dont quite remember my starting rotation, but ill give it a try.
    Pot, Chimera(hope for crit -->piercing shots)
    Serpent
    Rapid Fire + buffs, Stamp
    DB
    MoC
    Steadyx2 (massive focus regen happening)
    Aimedx2
    Steadyx2
    Chimera
    I stay away from GlaiveToss unless there are adds out or until the boss is under 80%. It is not worth it until then; Aimed shot is guarentee crit usually and hits harder than GT.

    A lot of your starting dps depends on your rng with Aimed Shot proccs because there are times when you can basically chain 3 back to back for guarantee crits. A month ago with 574 ilvl, there were only a few times where was able to break 1.2 mil burst dps. it usually peaks at around 900k if i recall correctly.
    Yea this is great advice (and pretty much what i do when i spec MM), when i get better trinkets (which should put me up to about 570ilvl) i'm going to go BM/MM and have some fun. The MM rotation is clunky but I love chimera shot and seeing the fatty numbers when it crits. Why'd you quit btw? You plan on coming back for WOD?

  10. #10
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delaios View Post
    Is Mastery better than haste for MM? You've reforged quite heavily into Mastery. Shouldn't Crit/Haste be your best stats?

    You're also missing both Engineering tinkers.
    I just followed suit. Walajanilu reforged this way and he is one of the best so I went this route as well. And i do have my tinkers on just armory is being fail for some reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And TY for all the help guys is deeply appreciated. Time to hit the dummy .

    -BowBeforeHoes

  11. #11
    For anyone curious, I decided to rock crit>mastery>haste back when i tried MM and there are several reasons for why i think it is the best for MM. Some players like to reforge for haste>mastery because they feel like they will do more damage by just hard casting aimed shot since with this formula the cast will be near 1.4 seconds or so.

    I strongly disagree with this tactic. It is boring, heavily focus dependent, consists of .5sec aimed shots at pull, and can lead to several add swap issues later on in the tier. Im not sure what sims say because i stay away from them due to their large error margins and grossly extrapolated data, but ive had the best luck with mastery over haste. Wildquiver hits like a fucking truck, and it will only get nastier when you get a heroic weapon. Not to mention Haromms can procc from WQ which crits for like 80-150k.


    On the topic of Haromms, this trinket really is the best for MM. Crows can procc WQ and Haromms, and WQ can also procc Haromms. Reforging mastery makes you cast so many WQ's that Haromms proccs like crazy as well as increases the chance of a decently strong hit rather than a SS Haromms procc.

    Stick with Glaive Toss for all fights, it acts as 2 hits per collision instead of barrage which doesn't follow the same formula. This makes glaive toss procc at least twice as much per use than Barrage on aoe targets IF you line up the mobs correctly.

    Goodluck in future tests! Dont be afraid to try new things =D

  12. #12
    Under haste effects like bloodlust and rapidfire do you still believe we should be using arcane shot as the focus dump or should we use aimed shot?

  13. #13
    I used aimed shot whenever i had haste buffs: rapid fire, Lust. Imp Steady doesn't count.

  14. #14
    Thank you very much! Will try things out and see how it goes

  15. #15
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    Nothing new below, but my experience, I didn't managed to always do this, but these are what I was aiming for.

    I tried it for 2 weeks and enjoyed it. Was super rusty and had lots to improve. 2 x T16, 2 x H T15, H SoO Weapon, TED + H Rentaki's for one week, TED + Harmoms the 2nd week, rest was normal SoO gear.

    Similar to Walajanilu in that I had best results with Crit > Mastery > Haste, Aimed shot as my dump above 80% and Arcane below that except under Bloodlust or Rapid Fire (or the titans buff on Sha) then I would dump with aimed again.

    I would lead with aimed when attacking a new target for example, I killed Engineers on Garosh, I would Aimed then Chimera and they would die, Sha of Fear add, I lead with Aimed too, just because their HP is so low they drop out of 80% quickly so this ensured a crit.

    Don't remember exact opener and tried different talent choices but was something along the lines of (not suggesting this is optimal):

    pot
    Serpent Sting
    Chimera
    Rapid Fire + Stampede
    Crows and/ or DB depending on talent choices fit in here
    Steady Shot x 2
    Aimed
    Aimed
    Steady
    Aimed
    Steady
    Aimed
    Steady
    Chimera
    steady
    aimed etc

    I found once everything was out (stampede , Crows, DB etc) under rapid fire and I had steady focus buff up, to not cap focus I would Aimed then steady then aimed then steady because of the extra focus regen from rapid fire until steady focus dropped, then get steady focus back up.

    I didnt use Glaive toss until below 80% unless a situation called for it such as about to Steady Shot x 2 for Steady focus buff but had 30 focus (ie not enough for Aimed but enough that I would cap / almost cap with 2 x Steady shot.

    Pretty well know but because of the higher iLvL weapon then the rest of my gear, my single target was probably the best it has been and I am going to have it as an option for tonight as we start progression on Heroic Iron Jug. It might have been my lack of practice or skill, but for me it just doesn't compete with SV or BM once you have any AOE options.
    Last edited by Osinin; 2013-11-22 at 03:05 AM.

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