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  1. #1

    Angry Garrisons, did they miss the mark.

    I have been thinking about this ever since I saw the panel on it, and the more I think about it the more it becomes clear to me that Garrisons MUST have started out life as a guild feature, ever since vanilla we have been calling out for player housing, but this is not player housing, this is a whole town, something a guild might occupy, not a single player.

    I think and will believe unless proven otherwise that Blizzard initially designed this for guilds, and then for what ever reason decided to make it single player, and I think that was a massive mistake.

    Ever since the rumours went around that the portal in stormwind was going to unlock and take you to a set of streets and small gardens for player housing the basic idea of having small player housing in the cities always made sense to me, so when garrisons were announced I have to say it took me by surprise.

    am I alone in this ?

    OR..

    Would it have been far better if they used the same technology of phasing to place small "Single Player" housing in the main cities, for example all those locked doors in Iron Forge, or Stormwind, or the possability for them to expand something like Orgrimar or Silvermoon, there are tons of places where houses are already in place but they are locked or static un-enterable.

    Give players Housing, with a few function things, and give the garrisons to guilds.

    Finally , I think its a total waste the way blizzard seem intent on creating cool content and then locking it all into a single expansion, guild leveling for example had its day and they have no intention of updating it, garrisons will be the same, their now and seemingly forever going to be locked on Draenor, but I would be willing to bet that the next expansion in 2 years will make all of that content, and our garrisons VOID!, just like it does with every other old and out of date expansion.

    With player housing in cities, they would remain relevant beyond any expansion because their in the city and not out in some wild zone, having garrisons for guilds and those being out in the zones makes way more sense.

  2. #2
    The Insane
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    How about waiting till you can try it before deciding whether or not they "missed the mark"?
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  3. #3
    AFAIK You can still form a 40m raid within your guild and invite em over.

  4. #4
    Never been a fan of just player housing, decorating a house just doesn't appeal to me.
    Garrison however is so much more then just a house, it has lot's of function instead of just being something to decorate and look at. You can actually do stuff in/with it. Which is way I'm really looking forward to it!

    Also what Venziir said, let's hold judgement untill we tried. Maybe after trying it I'll be completely bummed out about how boring it is. :P
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  5. #5
    I'm pretty sure they weren't invented just for guilds at first, I mean why would you assume that at all? Nothing about the feature suggests they were for guilds...
    Garrisons for guilds would be awful, there's only room for a small number of buildings and only one person would get to pick them. It could not possibly satisfy the desires of the whole guild. The idea of a single building is much more suited to guilds than this is.

    Guild levelling also isn't "locked" in a single expansion! You still have all the perks, they didn't go anywhere!
    Adding more just increases bloat and prevent new guilds from attracting more players. It is good that they haven't gone overboard with guild levels.

  6. #6
    this is a whole town, something a guild might occupy, not a single player.
    In my eyes, it looks a lot like the little RTS fortifications that you would build back in the original Warcraft games. Makes sense as it stands to me.

    Can we please hold the "Missed the mark" stuff until at least beta?

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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Haidaes's Avatar
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    Hmm imho garrisons are the bastardized interpretation of blizzard trying to bring their RTS knowledge, player housing, single player progression, companions from swotor and a bunch of other features together and paint it WoW. It really has nothing to do with actual player housing though, as it misses the most of the main components of it, like customization of detail, which is entirely diffrent from place lvl 1/2/3 forge on slot #5 of garrison spot_shadowmoonValley. In the end its the farm with a more militaristic painting and to be honest I'm mostly interested in for the companion/subordinate idea and depending on the implementation what they do with professions.

  8. #8
    Garrisons for guilds would be awful, there's only room for a small number of buildings and only one person would get to pick them. It could not possibly satisfy the desires of the whole guild. The idea of a single building is much more suited to guilds than this is.
    Sorry but that made me piss myself laughing....

    So 25 + guild members cramming into a small house, and 1 person in a huge town makes more sense to you than the other way around ?, I think you need to re-evaluate your thinking there mate.

    I see this as a symptom of the age of wow and where it is now, gone are the days where guilds were actually real guilds, working together as a team toward some goal, now their nothing more than groups hell bent on getting the best gear, I think thats why we will never see the massive events like the AQ event in the game again where guilds worked together to try and earn one of their members something really special, that bond is gone for a lot of guilds.

    Having garrisons as a guild feature would bring some of that back, to many people are so damn greedy that they are like OMG its not the guilds its just the guild leaders toy, thats such a myopic way of thinking.

    Giving a garrison to a guild, something the guild would work together on, something they could collectivly build, setup, and help maintain, to me sounds more compelling than giving a single player a whole town to wander on their own.

    Looking at the images, these things are going to be comparable to theramore for god sake, it's got just about all the same buildings in it and a very similar layout, how can anyone in their right mind look at an area that large and think it fits a single player more than a guild.

    Mind Blown!.

  9. #9
    Looks like they are simply an extension of the farm concept and likely to be expanded again in the future.

    So how about we hold fire on the "missed the mark" observations until we see what we actually get to play with.
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  10. #10
    I never said a small building, I said one building. A single guild hall that you can actually decorate with objects.
    The RTS village-building scenario does not work for a group of 25-100 people, a guild meeting hall does.

    A guild Garrison would not be working together as a team. Have you ever tried to have two players cooperate on building one base on top of each other in an RTS game? It simply does not work. The way Garrisons work is that you decide where something goes and then it levels up over time with no further input, there is no teamwork possible here.

    Working as a team to earn trophies and rewards to display in a guild hall would definitely work, and involves people working together.

    That's exactly why I have no suspicion that this was designed as a guild feature ever, it really clearly was always meant to be a solo experience. There is nothing of teamwork in any of the implementation of this feature, it is completely solo-driven and would not work at all in even a two person context let alone a 50+ one.

    All the features are designed to fill in holes that you have by not having other players to play with too, and would not benefit a guild at all. Why do you need profession helpers if you are already in a guild with all the professions? What's the point of npcs to gather for you when you have a guild bank? Why would you invest in sending npcs to get you inferior gear than what you get from your team raiding?

    The answer is that you don't, and having them as a guild feature would just encourage people to help each other out less ("Why would I give you my ore? We have the garrison for that!")

    But hey no, just compare size rather than function! I'm the one being myopic here!
    Last edited by Imnick; 2013-11-20 at 11:46 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bankai View Post
    Looking at the images, these things are going to be comparable to theramore for god sake, it's got just about all the same buildings in it and a very similar layout, how can anyone in their right mind look at an area that large and think it fits a single player more than a guild.

    Mind Blown!.
    Play a few single player RPGs that feature a player keep. Be amazed. The idea isn't new.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Ken_Silver's Avatar
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    My biggest thought behind why Garrisons are done by person and not by guild is because they're going for the Warcraft feel inside the World of Warcraft. If this was a Guild Only thing, only Guild Leaders and people with high Guild Ranking can experience it, that and if you're kicked out of a guild... you aren't a part of it anymore. (I wonder how many players are in an actual guild? That'd be a great statistic.)

    By making it by character, everyone can get into it, no questions asked. That's my best thought as to why it's not a Guild thing but a person thing. Also, going on with the idea that Guilds aren't what they were originally probably plays a part. Didn't they say Guild Perks didn't work as intended in terms of the Social Aspect?


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  13. #13
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    How about waiting till you can try it before deciding whether or not they "missed the mark"?
    Basically and /end thread argument.

    Seriously...people jump to judgements much too early.

    That and most OP judgements are just half assed and the result of not paying attention to where the game is heading. No..it is not better to give ppl single phased houeses in a big city. It is the intention to get ppl into the world and not secluded and phased out.

    If you dislike that, you seriously need to find a game that pleases you.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    How about waiting till you can try it before deciding whether or not they "missed the mark"?
    This

    Lets wait until we can actually try it out before we jump the gun.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    In reality, they look like buildings from WC/II/III. Pending on how they implement it, I think it's a pretty cool feature that gives players some utility. (use of other professions) and a constant base aside from sitting in a city for the majority of the expansion. I just hope it has a separate hearth.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Hmm imho garrisons are the bastardized interpretation of blizzard trying to bring their RTS knowledge, player housing, single player progression, companions from swotor and a bunch of other features together and paint it WoW. It really has nothing to do with actual player housing though, as it misses the most of the main components of it, like customization of detail, which is entirely diffrent from place lvl 1/2/3 forge on slot #5 of garrison spot_shadowmoonValley. In the end its the farm with a more militaristic painting and to be honest I'm mostly interested in for the companion/subordinate idea and depending on the implementation what they do with professions.
    This. I got a feeling I'm going to be somewhat disappointed.

    Customization seems quite limited. Will we even be able to enter the buildings?

    Seriously, why can't we have normal player housing? Player housing as an end in itself, as part of our virtual life. Must everything tie into raiding?

  17. #17
    The building doors were open in the previews but they may have just been placeholders

  18. #18
    I think you actually have it backwards mate. This is a feature designed for a player to have access to mats and professions otherwise unavailable to them without goiing outside thier own sphere of influence and according to of of the Blizzcon Q&A might be the start of guild housing stuf in the feature if it works as intended.

  19. #19
    Not every guild is quite 'personal' enough for a guild hall to be appealing for everyone. I don't know how things are on your server, but on mine, be guildless for about a minute (when making a new character, for example) and you get bombarded by invites for gigantic perk guilds.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    I don't think they missed the mark, but I do know in past expansion reveals their {:shiny thing signature feature:} dot points usually made me go "Oh wow, cool! That sounds awesome!"

    For some reason that just didn't happen for me with Garrisons. Zero hate, no negative reaction... Internally I just kind of went "OK. Impress me." No wow factor. Which is kind of strange, because on paper I can see how it's a cool feature. I guess "missed the mark" depends on how much other players (probably not the me's of the playerbase) give a shit.
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