Guildie mage at 130k

[Nemo296]

From what I can see, you provided almost no information from logs but I'll do my best to help...

I use simcraft as a baseline of what the player should be doing, with her current gems and reforges she should be doing ~160k dps on a single target fight with no adds and a burst of ~400k.

Obviously there's something wrong with her dps and I would suggest telling her to use Ask Mr. Robot to get a better idea on what to get.

Also, tell her to visit noxxic or icyveins for some rotation advice. The fact that she doesn't have of her legendary quest done is REALLY killing her dps.

EDIT: Take the simcraft with a grain of salt, it's RNG based. For example, simcraft told me I should be at 270k but sometimes I do 280k and sometimes I do 250k

[Hellravager]

Yea working on logs part going to upload it later today

[Polarthief]

Once we see logs, we can help rotationally.

As others have said:
- Gemming is just atrocious. You don't gem pure Intellect, especially at that iLevel where both Haste and Mastery still have plenty of value.
-- Taking a closer look, I see Crit Gems... I'm going to assume they don't know how to gem. Rule of thumb is as follows: If Mastery-based: Mastery > Int. If Haste-based: Haste > Int. If Mixture, Secondary (of your choosing; either Haste or Mastery) > Int. You mostly only use 3 gems, all of which have Haste or Mastery on it.

- Rune of Power...? Why? That saves you one global (IF that) every 60s over Invo at the cost of not being allowed to move very far.

*- Some smaller things that I'll clump together here because they aren't that big of an impact or in the player's control:
-- Legendary Cloak
-- Legendary Meta
-- Herbalism is definitely not an optimal raiding profession

I'm going to guess that because their gemming is so haphazard that their rotation probably isn't the most ideal, but we won't know until we get logs.

(Not trying to tear your guildie apart or anything, I'm just giving you no bullshit beat-around-the-bush answers here)

[Hellravager]

Once we see logs, we can help rotationally.

As others have said:
- Gemming is just atrocious. You don't gem pure Intellect, especially at that iLevel where both Haste and Mastery still have plenty of value.
-- Taking a closer look, I see Crit Gems... I'm going to assume they don't know how to gem. Rule of thumb is as follows: If Mastery-based: Mastery > Int. If Haste-based: Haste > Int. If Mixture, Secondary (of your choosing; either Haste or Mastery) > Int. You mostly only use 3 gems, all of which have Haste or Mastery on it.

- Rune of Power...? Why? That saves you one global (IF that) every 60s over Invo at the cost of not being allowed to move very far.

*- Some smaller things that I'll clump together here because they aren't that big of an impact or in the player's control:
-- Legendary Cloak
-- Legendary Meta
-- Herbalism is definitely not an optimal raiding profession

I'm going to guess that because their gemming is so haphazard that their rotation probably isn't the most ideal, but we won't know until we get logs.

(Not trying to tear your guildie apart or anything, I'm just giving you no bullshit beat-around-the-bush answers here)

Thats the kind i want XD

[testsubjectzz]

You need to get stern with her if you intend to progress because there is absolutely no reason why dps is that low at that ilvl. If you don't want to hurt her feelings just move her to 'backup raider'. We had a warlock like this in tot dps was about 50k below mine but was 20 ilvls above me. No one said anything directly to them but just eventually remade raid groups and move them to this bench raider. Meaning you're going to be doing lfr for life.

[Polarthief]

You need to get stern with her if you intend to progress because there is absolutely no reason why dps is that low at that ilvl. If you don't want to hurt her feelings just move her to 'backup raider'. We had a warlock like this in tot dps was about 50k below mine but was 20 ilvls above me. No one said anything directly to them but just eventually remade raid groups and move them to this bench raider. Meaning you're going to be doing lfr for life.

This is sort of the problem with guilds that want to progress but aren't hardcore; my old guild included. All through ToT, we had a Warlock who was holding us back on Heroics due to her terrible DPS, and all of DS/T14 we had a shitty DK tank too, and we kept them because no one would say anything (wasn't my place to tell them either).

The biggest thing to remember is: Is your guild more casual or more hardcore? If the former, then is risking them leaving for a new Mage that you don't know worth it? If the latter, you need to step your foot down and bite this in the ass, even if they drop. The problem is there's no true middle-ground; you can't have the best raiders and be casual, and you can't be hardcore with bad raiders.

[Hellravager]

Heres the logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k9o4xzqwulha6ael/

[Monstercloud]

You need to make your logs public

[Polarthief]

Heres the first log
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-40917s4i4akg08sn/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k9o4xzqwulha6ael/

You need to make your logs public

Yup, permission denied.

PS: Making logs private means you aren't eligible for ranks D:

[Hellravager]

They're now public sry about that didnt know how

[Nemo296]

Looking at the log quickly your mage only had a 22.7% uptime on his living bomb for your longest try. He/she also only had an uptime of rune of power 30.7%

Both of those should be in the 90% range

[fearist]

Should probably just redirect this to the Help My DPS Thread since we can't have a single thread open without some asshat ruining it.

let's watch the language there bud, my son goes on this website sometimes

[roahn the warlock]

Everything else, sure, but haste/stam is perfectly valid if you're over the hit cap and have a blue socket you want to match. I was running a few of them in ToT.

Haste... with literally anything else.

[Deleted]

Beyond help really. There's too much to fix, she really needs to change a lot of things. tell her to read extensive guides of how to dps properly. As others have said, Rune of Power is a really, really bad choice and she has an awful uptime of it. Invocation is not only better, but it's easier to manage and you can tell her to get addons to track the buff and warn when it's not on.

Mage Bomb uptime should be prioritized so she has above 90% uptime, that's extremely important.

When she tried her Arcane spec, she performed extremely below what she should've, so tell her to stay Frost since it's a lot simpler.

For some reason, I've noticed that a lot of girls (that are underperforming) don't realise that you always have to be casting something. Never take a pause, never spend a second with no GCD or no cast. It's better that she spams Frostbolt if she feels insecure than stand still for a second to think of what she should do. If she's ever insecure on fights with a lot of mobs, just tell her to make sure that Nether Tempest/Living Bomb is up on as many enemies as possible, then just spam the shiny buttons. It does more dps than standing still not knowing what to do, which is what she seems to be doing considering she did 68k dps on your longest try.



I've tried to find a way of being nice in saying that she's bad, but I can't put it any other way than saying she is incredibly bad and wouldn't even pull her weight on Immerseus Flex with that performance. Probably not even Garrosh LFR.

I understand that replacing people is definitely not always an option, not everyone raids for progress, most people raid for fun and to have a good time, but if you don't replace her, it's going to take a long, long time to get her to your level.

You can't ask for advice to tell her later aswell, you will have to get her to ask people for help and get her to want to improve. There's no easy "do this, this and this and you'll have twice the dps" because she's underperforming too badly.

Is it an option for her to reroll elemental shaman or something really simple? Elemental Shamans aren't easy to master, no class is (since it requires not only 100% class knowledge, but you have to be an excellent raider aswell), but they're incredibly easy to play on a medium level. On Galakras, it's just chain lightning until Galakras comes if you don't know how to optimize your dps and on single target, you just have to keep Flame Shock up and press a few spells on CD and then spam lightning bolt.

TL;DR, tell her to get help from a mage that knows his stuff. You asking for help on a forum won't get her anywhere, she has to be willing to improve. It doesn't even have to be a good mage, it could be a mediocre one that understands the class.
She needs to become a better raider aswell. (Understand what actually is required to do high dps other than knowing your class)

[Hellravager]

Beyond help really. There's too much to fix, she really needs to change a lot of things. tell her to read extensive guides of how to dps properly. As others have said, Rune of Power is a really, really bad choice and she has an awful uptime of it. Invocation is not only better, but it's easier to manage and you can tell her to get addons to track the buff and warn when it's not on.

Mage Bomb uptime should be prioritized so she has above 90% uptime, that's extremely important.

When she tried her Arcane spec, she performed extremely below what she should've, so tell her to stay Frost since it's a lot simpler.

For some reason, I've noticed that a lot of girls (that are underperforming) don't realise that you always have to be casting something. Never take a pause, never spend a second with no GCD or no cast. It's better that she spams Frostbolt if she feels insecure than stand still for a second to think of what she should do. If she's ever insecure on fights with a lot of mobs, just tell her to make sure that Nether Tempest/Living Bomb is up on as many enemies as possible, then just spam the shiny buttons. It does more dps than standing still not knowing what to do, which is what she seems to be doing considering she did 68k dps on your longest try.



I've tried to find a way of being nice in saying that she's bad, but I can't put it any other way than saying she is incredibly bad and wouldn't even pull her weight on Immerseus Flex with that performance. Probably not even Garrosh LFR.

I understand that replacing people is definitely not always an option, not everyone raids for progress, most people raid for fun and to have a good time, but if you don't replace her, it's going to take a long, long time to get her to your level.

You can't ask for advice to tell her later aswell, you will have to get her to ask people for help and get her to want to improve. There's no easy "do this, this and this and you'll have twice the dps" because she's underperforming too badly.

Is it an option for her to reroll elemental shaman or something really simple? Elemental Shamans aren't easy to master, no class is (since it requires not only 100% class knowledge, but you have to be an excellent raider aswell), but they're incredibly easy to play on a medium level. On Galakras, it's just chain lightning until Galakras comes if you don't know how to optimize your dps and on single target, you just have to keep Flame Shock up and press a few spells on CD and then spam lightning bolt.

TL;DR, tell her to get help from a mage that knows his stuff. You asking for help on a forum won't get her anywhere, she has to be willing to improve. It doesn't even have to be a good mage, it could be a mediocre one that understands the class.
She needs to become a better raider aswell. (Understand what actually is required to do high dps other than knowing your class)

Well thanks for all the info man plan on showing it to my raid leader tomorrow

[Basemath]

let's watch the language there bud, my son goes on this website sometimes

I'll paraphrase a mod whom I extended a similar sentiment to a while back. The forums here are no place for kids.

[Steve the Sloth]

Megamisama covered a lot of good points but honestly, I'm too lazy to read the entire thing so sorry if he already mentioned anything I say.

Just my personal opinion, her reforges look decent enough but in her current situation, I think it would be better for her to be focusing on Crit rather than mastery for her 2nd focused stat 9her neck and off-hand can be reforged to do so). The reason being, you wanna be at or close to 25% so your fingers of frost procs will be essentially guaranteed crits which is a huge supply of damage for frost.

I would also recommend switching to living bomb as her main bomb and switch to nether tempest when needed (i.e. Protectors fight, etc.). Maintain up time on bomb as much as possible to keep Frostfire procs comin.

To get her burst higher on openings, tracking trinket procs, as well as spell procs + Alter Time is key. I use the "tell me when" addon to track trinket procs and snapshot when needed. On fights that don't open with Bloodlust: I open with Frozen Orb > Living Bomb > spam Frostbolt > trinket proc by now > Alter Time > renew Living Bomb for added proc spellpower > consume spell procs/spam frostbolt > Alter Time expires > renew Living Bomb again > consume spell procs > Frostbolt as filler.

Fights that open with Lust: Frozen Orb > Living Bomb > save spell procs > trinket proc (hopefully) > Alter Time > renew Living Bomb > consume spell procs/spam Frostbolt > Alter Time expires > renew Living Bomb > consumer spell procs/fill with Frostbolt.

I know I'm not the best mage in the world but I hope this can help at least a bit with squeezing as much damage/spellpower out on openings to maximize burst and maintain some good dps throughout encounters.

p.s. sorry for any typos.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

let's watch the language there bud, my son goes on this website sometimes

You must not come here often...

[Pyromelter]

Well thanks for all the info man plan on showing it to my raid leader tomorrow

She is not "beyond help" - anyone can be helped if they want help.

What she needs frankly is a basic class on how to mage. She's playing it like someone who just started playing a mage 15 minutes ago, and has no idea about any of her stats, spells, buffs, debuffs. She likely also needs help with a sub-optimal user interface to track her buffs and bombs.

I would tell your RL that your mage has significant issues both in gearing and performance, and that you really like her, but she will hold you back unless she is willing to accept some training. Even for a "casual" raid, there is a difference between casual and bad. I wouldn't expect a casual player to do 99% of her potential maximum dps, but I would expect at least some sort of competency within the chosen class.

I would never ask someone to reroll. I would just kindly ask her if she was willing to accept some education, and if she wasn't, I would tell her thank you, but we're going to move in a different direction. Because the fights only get harder as you get further into SoO, and you'll never be able to down thok or siegecrafter, let alone garrosh, with that type of performance.

If your guild is really "lol we dgaf" then let it go. Otherwise yeah, she needs help.

[speakpkhq]

the obvious answer is "she"

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