Leveling 5-mans need way, way more newbies

[Therealmagoo]

There arent many new ppl on wow , im pretty sure that the wow population is getting very stagnant, the same ppl that have been playing leave the game then come back again.

[Deleted]

I've leveled lots of alts including four tanks, mostly through dungeon spamming - and I've always rushed them like there's no tomorrow. I like the challenge of being as fast as I possibly can, and somewhat consider it each players personal responsibility to do what they can. That doesn't mean I'm an entitled dick who'll kick newbies, quite the contrary, I often find myself saying "When you see that green add kill it ". I'm not going to follow up with "Also, how was your day?" because I simply don't care.

I don't consider LFR/5man a social thing. That's what my guild and friends are there for. I really enjoy that I can do a dungeon, and fullfill my role (be it dps, tank or healing) to the best of my ability without having to go through the 2006 MMO means.

[Deleted]

Getting a general theme of "uninformed bash the tank stereotype circlejerk" in here. Yes tanks have a tendency to rush content. If you've ever been the tank in a low level dungeon, you'd likely find that you have to pull quickly, because of you don't, somebody else will. As for the lack of communication and the dismay caused to new players, at the end of a good solid run is the time for chat, recap and often requests from these oppressed minorities to queue again.

Perhaps I can't see the bigger picture because 99% of the time i'm the tank. From my perspective loot ninjas and bots are the real LFG plague rather than fast groups.

[Ichifails]

YES. It doesn't matter whether the tank is incredibly bad/clueless/obviously on acid/whatever ... they ALL run run run ...

... except when they stop without comment for 3 minutes ...

... then RUN RUN RUN again.

I don't get it.

What happened to my oh so fun leveling 5-mans, anyway?

You see this is what I can't understand. I'm just amazed about how people are in wow. I'll cut a long story short to basically EVERY TIME I LEVELED A CHAR:

If I am the tank, I can solo the dungeon most of the time, my group lags behind and I do ~70% of the damage.
If I am a DPS, I ALWAYS outDPS the tank and the other 2 DPS and I end up in front of the tank pulling and killing mobs myself.
If I am the healer, I feel that the tanks are way to slow and I simply can't stay in a healing spec. Chain-pulling for me feels easy to heal in a DPS spec and most of the time I'm outDPS-ing the actual DPS... and it's sad.

I don't know I'm a meter whore, I can't stand it being first and I can't really stand people that under-perform because I simply can't do it.
I didn't really have the time to put into hardcore raiding so my "best attempt" was being in a world 70 guild from where I ended up getting kicked because I was constantly trying to convince my "class leader" that he's under-performing. Good old WotLK retri paladins days... but still being in mostly 245 gear with a 232 weapon and doing on average 28% more damage than your "superior" that had ~258 ilvl gear (except a trinket) with a 258 weapon... Yeah I couldn't live with that.

I'm considering trying to join Method for WoD and that can end up 4 ways:
I get rejected.
I get smacked on DPS or healing proving that all I think about how good I am is just a god complex (and I really hope this would be the case) and fail my trial.
I end up beating some of the best players in the world and I'd feel unmotivated to continue so I quit on my own.
I am equal to them and then I couldn't play because I don't want to be "average" I want to be the best.

That would be a fun ride :3 I should really give it a go.

[Normie]

I don't know I'm a meter whore, I can't stand it being first and I can't really stand people that under-perform because I simply can't do it.
I didn't really have the time to put into hardcore raiding so my "best attempt" was being in a world 70 guild from where I ended up getting kicked because I was constantly trying to convince my "class leader" that he's under-performing. Good old WotLK retri paladins days... but still being in mostly 245 gear with a 232 weapon and doing on average 28% more damage than your "superior" that had ~258 ilvl gear (except a trinket) with a 258 weapon... Yeah I couldn't live with that.

I'm considering trying to join Method for WoD and that can end up 4 ways:
I get rejected.
I get smacked on DPS or healing proving that all I think about how good I am is just a god complex (and I really hope this would be the case) and fail my trial.
I end up beating some of the best players in the world and I'd feel unmotivated to continue so I quit on my own.
I am equal to them and then I couldn't play because I don't want to be "average" I want to be the best.

That would be a fun ride :3 I should really give it a go.

So this dissertation on your dubiously pleasant personality and your dreams of EU stardom means ... what in relation to low level instances and NEW PLAYERS exactly?

I'll just draw my own conclusion from it.

- - - Updated - - -

Getting a general theme of "uninformed bash the tank stereotype circlejerk" in here. Yes tanks have a tendency to rush content. If you've ever been the tank in a low level dungeon, you'd likely find that you have to pull quickly, because of you don't, somebody else will. As for the lack of communication and the dismay caused to new players, at the end of a good solid run is the time for chat, recap and often requests from these oppressed minorities to queue again.

Perhaps I can't see the bigger picture because 99% of the time i'm the tank. From my perspective loot ninjas and bots are the real LFG plague rather than fast groups.

Is it really necessary to start rushing without even saying "hello"? Hell, I've heard people say "It annoys me when people say hello."

This kind of thing will suck the life out of WoW. It's dramatically different leveling a character in instances now than it was just a year ago. It is not a place where I think a new player would, on the average, have fun, or learn anything, or find the game worth playing. It's a place that would convince a new player to find a different game.

I feel like Blizzard needs to do something like cap gear when inside instances so that it's just not possible to chain pull everything. Not in a way that really punishes players -- I would be happy to see XP/mob increased 2x or whatever to compensate for the reduced speed. The instances need to be dialed back to a point where they play in a sane manner.

Also there shouldn't be any bosses dying in under 15 sec (or 10 sec) in BC, which at the moment I guess almost all of them do.

[Deleted]

EXACTLY.

I haven't had a single one of those fun chatty 5-mans on this particular toon. Used to be, they were common, especially back in the Wrath days.

I'm not saying I've been grouped with a bunch of a-holes, because that's just not the case, but I really miss the feeling that it is new to one or more players in the group.

Well, I tend to have some chatting. Sometimes it just 'rush in and get it done' where you don't really talk. But otherwise it happens rather often. It is about take the first word, not all like to do that, so people stay quiet. Like a newbie, the best way is to start talking and question, and if its a reasonable group, they respond well (but ofc, not all, there are some pure shits out there). And if the newbie have some brainz behind the forehead, he/she know better then judge the entire game and millions of gamers by four people in one dungeon.

Often happen it go well, both run and talk that I and the group end up running a few. xD Some you never see again, some you do, but it was fun as it lasted. Think people that say "People don't talk", don't try to start a conversation either. Not all ofc, but many, wouldn't surprise me at least. As I say, it is as fun as you make it to be. If you want to talk, you talk.

[Kelathos]

This is a rather sad topic.

LFG has allowed the community to turn dungeons into an efficiency grinder where people are left behind instead of picked up. The sense of community, of getting to know other players, has been neglected. Perhaps new players need friendly guilds more than ever. The biggest problem for that is we have no mentoring system. It's very difficult to share the journey together without characters of appropriate level and strength.

Sorry, but I'm not leveling new alts all the time for new players. Especially when I lack available character slots to do it with. Especially not when I'd be required to keep within 3-5 levels of them of suffer experience penalties. World of Warcraft's health depends on a sense of community, but we lack a very important tool.

WoW needs mentoring. My level 90s need to scale down to the new players' level, and then I would gladly assist them.

[Shakari]

I like healing leveling 5-mans but if I am planning to loot, I need whatever my best speed talents are + a speed enchant on my boots these days, because of the Speedy Gonzales Tank Syndrome.

While I spend 5 seconds picking up quests by the entrance portal, I am more often than not watching the tank go out of range followed by his health bar going 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, and this is all at the instant I zone in.

What are you tanks thinking anyway? You do realize, in general, healers can't heal effectively when they are moving, and if the rest of us don't have a little while to click on that twinkly stuff, we will be missing out on a bunch of gold.

I do also occasionally level as a tank but, man, that is a tough row to hoe.

What are the tanks thinking? Probably thinking that unless we do it quickly we get whined, bitched and complained at or constant streams of gogogogo, none of which is pleasant lol

You can't have it both ways lol

[Deleted]

Today I was in UBRS with people who didn't know the dungeon. We died a couple of times, but it was really cool. I kinda miss doing dungeon runs where not everything goes perfectly.

[cyqu]

The newbie that just gets left behind without a word, except perhaps "kick that retard he's lost," isn't leveling faster.

if someone can't simply run at the pace a tank is pulling mobs at. then they have more to worry about then completing a dungeon.

[stomination]

Hey.

This is when all those things that was asked for ends up biting you on the ass.

Heirlooms--- Makes dungeons a joke while leveling.
Nerfing--- Dungeons get nerfed so much that you can basically roll thru it.
LFD- Takes away that social part. I remember talking so much when setting up a group and talking throughout the dungeon.

[clevin]

LFD killed levelign dungeons. No one talks, they're stupidly easy and this the other 4 people could be NPCs for all that it matters. LFG in Wrath was OK because it was new, but since then? yes it's far more convenient, but it's not social and since you will never see anyone again there's a segment of the population that turn into assholes.

[endersblade]

Whenever I tank a dungeon, I ALWAYS ask if someone needs anything explained, if they haven't been here before. If nobody pipes up, I assume everyone has the experience to speed run the place, and I proceed as such. So it comes down to two things:

Someone hasn't been there, but they're too afraid to say anything
Everyone has been there, and wants to get it over with as quickly as possible

Granted, I know what it's like being the one new to an instance and too afraid to say anything. I can't tell you how many times I've asked for explanations on boss fights, someone says, "Just kill it quickly" and we end up wiping, and I get the boot because I didn't know what the boss did. It's just easier to pretend I do, and then just blame it on lag or something. I would imagine a lot of people are in this boat.

And that calls on another thing: The WoW community is full of douche bags. LOADS of them. For every one person who's willing to explain things, there are thousands of douches who berate anyone who asks. As someone who primarily sticks to 5-mans, even at end game, I have certainly seen enough of them to know. Again, I typically tank, as I love tanking, and I always ask. I have a macro for it, even. Out of a day of running instances, I may get 2-3 people actually ask, and about 30-40 douches that complain about it. They're usually the one who far, far outgear the instance and are just running it for, I dunno, shits? Or they're the ones who pull ahead of the tank and end up causing one or more deaths, and then complain about the tank not doing their job.

It seems to be even WORSE at lower levels, too. I rolled a new pally tank with a friend who was a druid healer. We were just going to chain run instances all the way up, since we got instant queues. Not only did we run across so many fucking douche bags, but we also found the ones that flat didn't know how to play their class or something. We found THREE hunters, one after the other, that used melee weapons, one hunter who didn't know how to revive his pet, a rogue that didn't know he could stealth, and a ret pally trying to DPS in tanking gear. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM were in BoAs. Which means they weren't newbies. But it just got worse as we pushed on, so many people thinking they were the ultimate badass and they knew better than anyone else how to do things. I tried so hard to get these morons killed, and it was so totally worth it.

I typically consider the tank the leader of the group. If I'm DPS, and I know the instance like the back of my hand, I still only do what the tank wants to do. He's the one getting bashed on so that I don't have to. He sets the pace of the instance. It is the tank's job to pull, not DPS. If you really don't like how your tank is running an instance, either say something NICELY or just drop group and requeue.

Anyway, my point being, I agree with the OP in that there don't seem to be many true newbies in instances, especially once you get up in levels. They get turned off from them by elitists who think they rule the world. I really wish WoW had a lot fewer of them, and more people who were new to the game and were enjoying the experience.

Also, LFD didn't kill jack squat. I've actually made MORE friends with the advent of LFD. It's not LFD's fault that people don't want to talk when they get into an instance. I recently made two friends from different servers who rerolled new chars on my server, just so we could play together. Both of them met in LFD instances. If you don't want to be social, fine; but don't blame LFD, it's YOUR fault.

[Normie]

if someone can't simply run at the pace a tank is pulling mobs at. then they have more to worry about then completing a dungeon.

Hell, I know where I'm going, and I can't keep up with tanks to heal them without speed enchants and talents.

How is a new player going to know where to jump off to take a shortcut if he's a few seconds behind because he, you know, stopped to loot or something.

- - - Updated - - -

What are the tanks thinking? Probably thinking that unless we do it quickly we get whined, bitched and complained at or constant streams of gogogogo, none of which is pleasant lol

You can't have it both ways lol

I don't like the way that tanks are treated and I don't like the way that as a result tanking in random groups has become a specialty that only a few hardened souls are suited for. I certainly don't abuse tanks when I heal (but I will let one die if he is repeatedly SOOO far ahead that I can't even loot). Tanking really ought to be a more fun, relaxed role at all levels in the game other than normal+ raiding. If that means something like an option in the UI that puts flashing red arrows showing the tank where to go next, and passive talents that make interrupts and survival cooldowns automatic, and tanks getting a free out of combat self-res, or whatever, that would be fine by me.

There needs to be new blood in LFD. When I was in the second level 50-ish instance of the evening where 3 players from different realms were talking about Vanilla and BC that's I realized something has gone terribly wrong.