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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Obby View Post
    this so much this

    its the pvpers bitching about flying in open world pvp not happening....then bitching when they get roflstomped by pve gear ina pve zone
    PvP stands for player versus player. Don't like it? Roll on a PvE server and don't flag yourself.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Any contested zone is a PvP zone.
    I think it's better to just leave the contested zones as a mix of the two rather than assigning it to PvE or PvP as while you can engage in PvP combat in any contested zone the main focus of these zones is largely PvE related. If that weren't the case the zone would be devoid of any PvE quests/objectives/instance portals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voodo View Post
    This.

    PvP gear should give the edge in a PvP situation. PvE gear should give the edge in a PvE situation. How can people even disagree with this statement? It's like disagreeing with 2+2=4.

    If a player attacks another player and they engage in combat, it is a PvP situation, it doesn't matter where they are.
    Or make gear type irrelevant out in the world so that the deciding factors on who wins are skill, player numbers and/or who makes the first move.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2013-11-28 at 08:25 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    But it is. Something lesser. Something allot lesser. Think of all of the effort put into creating the world, writing the lore, the voice acting, the instances, the bossfights, the soundtrack, think about how every expansion is sold as "You're going to another continent to fight another ancient evil" and such. It's not sold as "yeah you get another box filled with sand and some poles you can dance around"

    Compared to the PvE content this game has, your enjoyed content is nothing more than a tacked on minigame in a half-assed effort to keep you spending 15 a month. Your "part" of the game, when compared to the meta game, which was from the beginning, a RPG (role playing game, not MOBA 4 digit number representing your self worth) is little more than a joke, yet the majority of players in this game have to suffer their classes being homogenized into oblivion and losing all flavor for the sake of 'balance' in your little kiddy playground where you try to kill each other while hiding behind little poles.

    When they(the devs) tried to make world pvp more engaging you laughed at their efforts, mocked them and told them to eff off because there were no 4 digit numbers involved or big purple flying 310% dildos for rewards, and told them to focus on balancing arenas, because "nobody cares about world pvp", and "world pvp is dead", and "LOL world pvp? u srs?" After so many years, they took your word for it, and separated itemization and gearing philosophy for ONE expansion based on your 'advice' and now you're whining because you can't completely dominate and gank JonnyMCPVE "keyboardturner" Jenkins while he's fighting onyxia reskin no. 931023 in the world pve content you so much ridicule every chance you get.

    That is really everything this whine is reduced to. Now we have PvE kiddies killing dwagons fine, and pvp kiddies killing eachother fine, each in their own playgrounds, but the pvp kiddies want more. They always want more. Because not only do the pvp kiddies want their ice cream, they want JonnyMCPVE's icecream too, and they want to bash his face in while taking his icecream while mocking him for his choice of playstyle, case in point:



    Take it from Lord Vader here, if you enjoy playing in your own kiddy sandbox and enjoy pressing buttons to kill onyxia reskins in your "designated pve area" you're a braindead little twerp, who needs addons to help you even remember how to breathe, so of course you're deserving of a reminder in the form of repeatedly being sent to the GY of the fact that you, you inferior subhuman, are supposed to lick the boots of the PvP Arena Master Race 2.4k+++ yoloswagqt Übermensch.
    Bravo! What this gentleman said is putting it perfectly.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyderpp View Post
    Bravo! What this gentleman said is putting it perfectly.
    He did.
    Yet, it's not a valid argument for PvE gear to be stronger than PvP gear when fighting other players (ONLY).

    LFR makes you get higher lvl gear and it's easier (I could agree with "as easy as") than PvP. So argument PvP is easy is invalid.

    Amount of PvE content vs PvP content is irrelevant to the discussion because it doesn't matter if you have 20% PvE or 99% PvE. Not to players.
    As long as people fight other people, PvP is present and in *those* situations, gear should be close to equal.

    The part about whining, I can only agree.
    But, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with "PvP gear should be equal to PvE gear when fighting players"

    EDIT: I tend to rather ignore subjective whining, regardless of whether it's PvE or PvP related.

  5. #65
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grishnaar View Post
    He did.
    Yet, it's not a valid argument for PvE gear to be stronger than PvP gear when fighting other players (ONLY).

    LFR makes you get higher lvl gear and it's easier (I could agree with "as easy as") than PvP. So argument PvP is easy is invalid.
    You will get 522 conq faster than full lfr gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #66
    As a PvE geared hunter, I like the PvP on the timeless isle. It's good I only need one set of gear to still have a decent fight and do not have to grind PvP gear on top of my PvE gear to fight other players in the open world

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You will get 522 conq faster than full lfr gear.
    14 bosses and 3 warforged coins per week, so 17 chances for loot, per week instead of 1 item per week in PvP?

    And after all that, the LFR gear is higher ilvl.

  8. #68
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grishnaar View Post
    14 bosses and 3 warforged coins per week, so 17 chances for loot, per week instead of 1 item per week in PvP?

    And after all that, the LFR gear is higher ilvl.
    Conquest has catchup mechanic so you can nearly fully gear in one week now (and very little effort in that week). To clarify the little effort, you wil get that conquest faster than you would take doing 3/4 of the LFR's (where by my reckoning you end up with 4~ items, not 10+)

    Compared to a 20% chance per boss for loot that may or may not be same slot you already got

    Oh and conquest >>> lfr gear for pvp. I'd say conquest is directly comparable to flex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  9. #69
    I'm loving the pvp on timeless isle, I've been whooping pve ass all week, with a buddy we can take on about 3-5(max probably) hordies with 500k+ health many with over 600k. The balance is ridiculous though, without a friend you simply cannot take on a well geared player (remember though skill in horde is very sparse these days on my realm it seems, although there are some damn good players).

    PVP gear should be the best option for doing, well, pvp, we cant have it all the time, it shouldn't be to the point of being able to solo a group of horde or something but something that should even the odds like base resilience being removed again or -pvp power in pve gear, or as the quote from the dude said, adding pvp power to the stat budget but having equal ilvl.

    Pve players need to have a chance to though, as I said. But it should be more based on skill rather than who has over a million health and like 560 ilvl.
    Have faith in the light,
    And the strength of its weilders.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Oh and conquest >>> lfr gear for pvp. I'd say conquest is directly comparable to flex.
    No. 528+8 PVE > 522 PVP.

    Plus some PVE pieces are guaranteed to be 535+8 due to Burdens of Eternity.

    Plus, of course, PVE cloak is going to be 600+8. And the effect on that cloak alone is worth a lot and requires no skill to use.
    Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:02 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Conquest has catchup mechanic so you can nearly fully gear in one week now (and very little effort in that week). To clarify the little effort, you wil get that conquest faster than you would take doing 3/4 of the LFR's (where by my reckoning you end up with 4~ items, not 10+)

    Compared to a 20% chance per boss for loot that may or may not be same slot you already got

    Oh and conquest >>> lfr gear for pvp. I'd say conquest is directly comparable to flex.
    You are correct regarding catchup. I forgot about that.
    Aye, you certainly wont get 17 items, nowhere near close.

    I can agree that conquest is similar to Flex due to PvP power.

    Taking your arguments in thought, I see it like this:

    Timeless items take less time than Honor items, but time shouldn't be the issue (because time isn't part of "how hard" or "how easy"), so let's say they are equal in difficulty.
    LFR and Conquest (since you don't really need high rating) are rather easy and here Conquest is better for PvP. LFR is better for PvE. All good here.

    Flex shouldn't be that hard once you get gear and aren't braindead xD Here PvE come more or less on par with Conquest in PvP and continues to be better in PvE (this 2nd part is perfectly fine).

    Then we get to Heroic and so on. Here you need to think more, pay more attention and all that. I would say, play the game like you should, but I could sound elitist, even though I'm nowhere near that.
    I'd say it's like playing high ratings, using every char ability, using experience, tricks, cooperation, comunicating, knowing your enemy, etc.

    So difficulty is (arguably) the same, although it's hard to compare it, but for the sake of argument let's say it is.

    The "problem" is that in PvE you continue to get higher ilvl stuff and in PvP you don't (duh, obv xD)

    The only thing I'm not satisfied with this is: that gear is better (much better) than PvP gear when it comes to player vs player.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Grishnaar View Post
    I can agree that conquest is similar to Flex due to PvP power.
    This isn't the case. Upgraded LFR gear is ilvl 536. Conquest gear is ilvl 522. A PVE guy will also have the legendary cloak. 14 ilvls plus the legendary > PVP power.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    This isn't the case. Upgraded LFR gear is ilvl 536. Conquest gear is ilvl 522. A PVE guy will also have the legendary cloak. 14 ilvls plus the legendary > PVP power.
    Sorry, I should have mentioned I was referring when fighting other players only (since we're debating lack of equality when it comes to PvP).

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Grishnaar View Post
    Sorry, I should have mentioned I was referring when fighting other players only (since we're debating lack of equality when it comes to PvP).
    Yes, that's what I am talking about as well.

    Full conquest gives you ~50% increased damage from PVP Power. 14 ilvls plus the legendary cloak give you more. Not to mention increased HP (which is better than increased resilience, given the numeric values of these increases).
    Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Yes, that's what I am talking about as well.

    Full conquest gives you ~50% increased damage from PVP Power. 14 ilvls plus the legendary cloak give you more. Not to mention increased HP (which is better than increased resilience, given the numeric values of these increases).
    I haven't done the math, so I'll believe you.
    And even though you're kinda on "my" side, PvP side, let's just say they are close to equal which is good enough :P

    Real problem comes with even higher ilvl from PvE, increasing the advantage in PvP, while the PvPers have no way to get higher ilvl gear.

    No, "argument" "do PvE" isn't really valid, players should have a choice what to play and shouldn't be punished in *that* field. Just as PvP shouldn't be stronger vs NPC, so shouldn't PvE be stronger vs Player.
    Last edited by Grishnaar; 2013-11-29 at 12:26 PM. Reason: added " "

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoriaautmors View Post
    I came back to wow after taking a break during thunder island patch, after catching up on conquest and getting some grivous gear i went to timeless island to have some world pvp fun...

    I was astonished to see players going around with 800-900k hp nuking down pvp geared people in a few GCDs.

    It really is a completely hopeless fight it feels much worse then going into battleground with green quest gear. Ive seen poeple grouping up to take down a 900k hp PVE monster in 5v1 fights and still struggle this is insane. This is worse then old vanilla naxxramas days when people geared in naxx used to own everyone else. I hope blizzard fixes this in the next expansion because questing and world pvp will really be a pain.
    i think you're underestimating the impact of timeless isle buffs, which make people insanely OP regardless of gear

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Grishnaar View Post
    I haven't done the math, so I'll believe you.
    And even though you're kinda on "my" side, PvP side, let's just say they are close to equal which is good enough :P

    Real problem comes with even higher ilvl from PvE, increasing the advantage in PvP, while the PvPers have no way to get higher ilvl gear.

    No, "argument" "do PvE" isn't really valid, players should have a choice what to play and shouldn't be punished in *that* field. Just as PvP shouldn't be stronger vs NPC, so shouldn't PvE be stronger vs Player.
    I completely agree. PVP gear should be better than PVE gear when it comes to PVP in the world. This isn't the case, and that's wrong.

    Just in case, some math on example upgraded LFR PVE piece vs conquest PVP piece:

    http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...0.0.0.2;100470

    The above link compares relevant chests for ele shaman (I just picked a random piece for the spec that I know). Taking into account socket bonuses and extra socket for PVE (the gems will be slightly different, but the difference is very small, so I am ignoring it for simplicity), we have these differences in stats:

    PVP piece = 742 pvp power, 1039 haste
    PVE piece = 397 int, 326 sta, 1276 mastery, 97 crit

    742 pvp power is more or less the same as 397 int, 1039 haste is worse than 1276 mastery + 97 crit (PVP eles go for haste first, but...). 326 sta is a leftover bonus for the PVE piece.

    The only saving grace is that a PVE guy will waste stats on hit / spirit. That's the only way a PVP guy can be better. And then only if we don't take into account the legendary cloak, the effect from *the enchantment* on which alone is easily 10+% of your DPS at that gear level, especially with heavy movement.
    Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:47 PM.

  18. #78
    Banned Espe's Avatar
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    You want PvE gear for PvE content? You raid.

    You want PvP gear for PvP content? You pvp.

    You want your PvP welfare epics to be good for everything and everywhere just because you log in and afk in battlegrounds more than other people? Too bad. Get over yourself. Maybe learn to actually play instead of coasting to free epics?

    In WoD you'll have your PvP welfare epics for BGs and the World PvP zone. That is probably more than you deserve for the actual level of skill it takes to afk in BGs.

  19. #79
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Yes, that's what I am talking about as well.

    Full conquest gives you ~50% increased damage from PVP Power. 14 ilvls plus the legendary cloak give you more. Not to mention increased HP (which is better than increased resilience, given the numeric values of these increases).
    14 ilvls is about 15-20% damage. The cloak (which shouldnt proc on players?) is about 5-10%, but disregarding as ive never seen it proc vs a player.

    28 ilvls (flex?) is 35-40% damage. They also get about 60-80k~ more hp which I'd call equivalent here.

    And talking week one only 2/16 items can be upgraded.

    I mentioned before I agree pvp gear should be able to beat norm/hc gear though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  20. #80
    I enjoyed farming 2000 scrubs on Timeless Island while I was decked out in SoO HC PvE gear. Most fun was the PvP heros who thought they were superman with their high Arena rating, sporting 400k hp vs my 750k.

    They died faster than I could blink. And the amount of rage in general chat and whispers were so cute and adorable.

    Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake

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