Last edited by Trubo; 2013-11-28 at 08:25 PM.
Yet, it's not a valid argument for PvE gear to be stronger than PvP gear when fighting other players (ONLY).
LFR makes you get higher lvl gear and it's easier (I could agree with "as easy as") than PvP. So argument PvP is easy is invalid.
Amount of PvE content vs PvP content is irrelevant to the discussion because it doesn't matter if you have 20% PvE or 99% PvE. Not to players.
As long as people fight other people, PvP is present and in *those* situations, gear should be close to equal.
The part about whining, I can only agree.
But, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with "PvP gear should be equal to PvE gear when fighting players"
EDIT: I tend to rather ignore subjective whining, regardless of whether it's PvE or PvP related.
As a PvE geared hunter, I like the PvP on the timeless isle. It's good I only need one set of gear to still have a decent fight and do not have to grind PvP gear on top of my PvE gear to fight other players in the open world
Compared to a 20% chance per boss for loot that may or may not be same slot you already got
Oh and conquest >>> lfr gear for pvp. I'd say conquest is directly comparable to flex.
I'm loving the pvp on timeless isle, I've been whooping pve ass all week, with a buddy we can take on about 3-5(max probably) hordies with 500k+ health many with over 600k. The balance is ridiculous though, without a friend you simply cannot take on a well geared player (remember though skill in horde is very sparse these days on my realm it seems, although there are some damn good players).
PVP gear should be the best option for doing, well, pvp, we cant have it all the time, it shouldn't be to the point of being able to solo a group of horde or something but something that should even the odds like base resilience being removed again or -pvp power in pve gear, or as the quote from the dude said, adding pvp power to the stat budget but having equal ilvl.
Pve players need to have a chance to though, as I said. But it should be more based on skill rather than who has over a million health and like 560 ilvl.
Have faith in the light,
And the strength of its weilders.
Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:02 PM.
Aye, you certainly wont get 17 items, nowhere near close.
I can agree that conquest is similar to Flex due to PvP power.
Taking your arguments in thought, I see it like this:
Timeless items take less time than Honor items, but time shouldn't be the issue (because time isn't part of "how hard" or "how easy"), so let's say they are equal in difficulty.
LFR and Conquest (since you don't really need high rating) are rather easy and here Conquest is better for PvP. LFR is better for PvE. All good here.
Flex shouldn't be that hard once you get gear and aren't braindead xD Here PvE come more or less on par with Conquest in PvP and continues to be better in PvE (this 2nd part is perfectly fine).
Then we get to Heroic and so on. Here you need to think more, pay more attention and all that. I would say, play the game like you should, but I could sound elitist, even though I'm nowhere near that.
I'd say it's like playing high ratings, using every char ability, using experience, tricks, cooperation, comunicating, knowing your enemy, etc.
So difficulty is (arguably) the same, although it's hard to compare it, but for the sake of argument let's say it is.
The "problem" is that in PvE you continue to get higher ilvl stuff and in PvP you don't (duh, obv xD)
The only thing I'm not satisfied with this is: that gear is better (much better) than PvP gear when it comes to player vs player.
Full conquest gives you ~50% increased damage from PVP Power. 14 ilvls plus the legendary cloak give you more. Not to mention increased HP (which is better than increased resilience, given the numeric values of these increases).
Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:14 PM.
And even though you're kinda on "my" side, PvP side, let's just say they are close to equal which is good enough :P
Real problem comes with even higher ilvl from PvE, increasing the advantage in PvP, while the PvPers have no way to get higher ilvl gear.
No, "argument" "do PvE" isn't really valid, players should have a choice what to play and shouldn't be punished in *that* field. Just as PvP shouldn't be stronger vs NPC, so shouldn't PvE be stronger vs Player.
Last edited by Grishnaar; 2013-11-29 at 12:26 PM. Reason: added " "
Just in case, some math on example upgraded LFR PVE piece vs conquest PVP piece:
The above link compares relevant chests for ele shaman (I just picked a random piece for the spec that I know). Taking into account socket bonuses and extra socket for PVE (the gems will be slightly different, but the difference is very small, so I am ignoring it for simplicity), we have these differences in stats:
PVP piece = 742 pvp power, 1039 haste
PVE piece = 397 int, 326 sta, 1276 mastery, 97 crit
742 pvp power is more or less the same as 397 int, 1039 haste is worse than 1276 mastery + 97 crit (PVP eles go for haste first, but...). 326 sta is a leftover bonus for the PVE piece.
The only saving grace is that a PVE guy will waste stats on hit / spirit. That's the only way a PVP guy can be better. And then only if we don't take into account the legendary cloak, the effect from *the enchantment* on which alone is easily 10+% of your DPS at that gear level, especially with heavy movement.
Last edited by rda; 2013-11-29 at 12:47 PM.
You want PvE gear for PvE content? You raid.
You want PvP gear for PvP content? You pvp.
You want your PvP welfare epics to be good for everything and everywhere just because you log in and afk in battlegrounds more than other people? Too bad. Get over yourself. Maybe learn to actually play instead of coasting to free epics?
In WoD you'll have your PvP welfare epics for BGs and the World PvP zone. That is probably more than you deserve for the actual level of skill it takes to afk in BGs.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
28 ilvls (flex?) is 35-40% damage. They also get about 60-80k~ more hp which I'd call equivalent here.
And talking week one only 2/16 items can be upgraded.
I mentioned before I agree pvp gear should be able to beat norm/hc gear though.
I enjoyed farming 2000 scrubs on Timeless Island while I was decked out in SoO HC PvE gear. Most fun was the PvP heros who thought they were superman with their high Arena rating, sporting 400k hp vs my 750k.
They died faster than I could blink. And the amount of rage in general chat and whispers were so cute and adorable.