Bad raid setup, should I just leave already?

[Roxxy]

I joined the guild I'm in near the end of TOT and helped them to down the Thunder King on normal. They seemed like they were quite professional and knew what they were doing. Best of all, all the dps were at my skill level and we enjoyed and still do enjoy competing on the dps meters. Now we are doing SOo and so far have got up to 13/14N.

During this time we have always always run with 3 healers, even if the fight didn't require it (which I have a sneaky feeling made the healers a bit lazy plus let a particular healer who wasn't so good get carried through) mainly by us dps because the DPS we have are all solid and we have all ranked on one fight or another. Now we are at Garrosh and continually wiping. Tired of wiping I did a general research of the fight and found that 2 healers is recommended for the fight. So I told the raid leader that this is a 2 healers fight because the extra dps is needed, especially as we can't get the minions down in time to stack up for the mc's in phase 2, that is where we are always failing. He asked the lowest performing healer to go dps spec (this healer wasn't even outhealing our tank during garrosh encounter tries) and they did 31k dps :/ in their dps gear they collected which includes the legendary dps cape. So now that healer is back healing again. I feel like I don't want to waste more of my time wiping like this and that the raid leader should find a decent dps so we can kill Garrosh. Another peeve I have is that we can't just simply sub in a decent dps because we have none because none of the officers or gm's are recruiting, instead we are slowly loosing people.

How long do you think I should wait to give the officers a fair chance of sorting out the problems we have? Or am I being completely stupid and we should be able to 5 dps man Garrosh?

[Deleted]

While this fight is 3-healable, going down to 2-healing is certainly the way to deal with the moderate DPS check. If you're struggling with getting adds down or getting Garrosh low before the 3rd intermission, an extra DPS can alleviate this.

What bothers me is the fact the healers themselves haven't piped up about the situation. If my raidleader tells me we're 3-healing, and I'm convinced we can 2-heal it, I'll let him know and we'll sit a healer to try it. 2-healing in 10 man makes any kind of DPS check just that much easier. I'm worried that your healers might be a bit lazy, selfish, or have a bit of a clique going on where they are protecting their own spots. Or they're just plain bad.

Also lol 31k dps. That was unacceptably low back in t14.

[Qualia]

You should be able to 5 DPS Garrosh. My guild did one 25M and one 10M on the first week, the 10M group killed Garrosh using 3 healers. It's the 10th week of SoO now so I doubt that your raid are having weaker gear than our 10M back then, which can only means your DPS is being terrible, or someone messed up and the adds get healed & buffed.

And you probably exaggerated or that healer of yours died / afk'd since it's impossible for someone with the cloak to do 31k DPS - he / she would do more than that with just spamming 1 button.

[Nebs]

Albeit a minority, there are guilds that 3-healed this fight on progression and continue to do so on farm. While it's not something I would normally recommend, it seems necessary in the case of your group. 3 healing is a problem not because of enrage, but because it makes it a lot more likely that you'll get a 3rd empowered whirling corruption (EWC) in P2, and not have enough time to clean up the adds before getting ported, meaning once you return, all of the adds will still be up and it will be a lot more difficult to separate and kill them. I don't know if you've made it to the point where he does a 3rd EWC, but that is the main problem that 3 healing causes, not because the adds don't die quickly enough before the MC. Although not ideal, it's fine to have some adds up when the MC goes out, just make sure people understand that MC's need to be broken out immediately, and afterwards worry about cleaning up the little adds.

If your DPS are indeed as good as you say they are, you might be able to avoid a 3rd EWC before P3. With the gear most groups have now, some are even able to avoid a 2nd EWC. While Heroism is typically used at the onset of P3, if you're 3 healing, it is entirely plausible to use it in P2, to ensure that you don't get that 3rd EWC.

As to your other concerns about how the guild is being managed, it is something better to address with your RL and officers. If you plan on doing heroics, you're not going to get very far without a suitable DPS replacement as you will need to 2 heal a majority of the fights after Protectors (Juggernaut, Shamans and Thok are the only ones that are easier 3 healed).

[Roxxy]

You should be able to 5 DPS Garrosh. My guild did one 25M and one 10M on the first week, the 10M group killed Garrosh using 3 healers. It's the 10th week of SoO now so I doubt that your raid are having weaker gear than our 10M back then, which can only means your DPS is being terrible, or someone messed up and the adds get healed & buffed.

And you probably exaggerated or that healer of yours died / afk'd since it's impossible for someone with the cloak to do 31k DPS - he / she would do more than that with just spamming 1 button.

Well I thought we were pretty solid dps (not exactly raging but solid). I myself have around 562 ilvl and do around 380k - 400k dps at pull going up to 500k dps if im lucky with procs. This dwindles to around 210k - 280k by near end phase 2 though. And the healer gone dps was on the engineer duty but still yeah was wondering what on earth was going on. Maybe I should hit the training dummies but I can't think of anywhere I can improve much.

[Dangg]

Your roster consists of only 10 members? No dps on the bench?

[Deleted]

5 dps is fine what are the tanks dps like? I can pretty much kill the adds before they get killed with the iron star with our MT in our alt run. (560 ilvl lock alt + tank is 563 prot warrior)

[Terridon]

Considered you say that you all got ranked on fights, you should have more than enough dps for this encounter with 3 healers.
A tank outhealing a healer isn't strange on that fight. I'm far outhealing our monk healer that is ranked on almost every fight in SoO, for agood part of the encounter, simply because Garrosh hurts so much that the healing goes through the roof. Specially if i go tanking both him and adds.
It sounds like you should take a look at what mechanism that kills you, instead of something that doesn't seem to matter much. You should be able to tell where you die, and to what?

Should give them some more time i think. Specially since you seem to like the people in the raid. Not always that easy to find a raid you're overall satisfied with.

Edit:
I suck at reading. Anyway. The minions have no health at all and it's not a problem with 5 dps and 2 tanks. Just kill them apart.

[Roxxy]

Your roster consists of only 10 members? No dps on the bench?

Yep. If someone has a problem which seems to be happening a lot lately then we are screwed. After about an hour usually we can pug a replacement dps which is usually someone who hasn't seen the fight before

- - - Updated - - -

5 dps is fine what are the tanks dps like? I can pretty much kill the adds before they get killed with the iron star with our MT in our alt run. (560 ilvl lock alt + tank is 563 prot warrior)

Tanks are doing around the 180-200k mark. Usually we have one dps doing a bit of aoe to help with adds.

[rated]

Either quit and find a group that's more suitable to your liking or be more proactive and go out and recruit a legit DPS (pug or potential guildie you decide) to fill in for this healer that is not carrying their own weight. Personally I'd rather exhaust all my options with your guild first before you gquit.

Also if you're going to post a thread with boss problems you should post some logs...more info helps and there might be something else going on that you're not even aware of.

[Roxxy]

Edit:
I suck at reading. Anyway. The minions have no health at all and it's not a problem with 5 dps and 2 tanks. Just kill them apart.

K maybe I will stay and see if it's the mechanics then. But was thinking since we specifically have trouble here it would be nice to have that extra dps to handle them quickly.

[Blueobelisk]

Pick up a pug from trade chat. If guild leader isn't good and you feel like you're wasting time then find a better guild, although to be honest it does sound like the skill level is right for you.

[Racthoh]

get one of the other healers to dps. i have a feeling that the lesser healer would have an easier time stepping up his healing than learning how to dps.

and there is always oqueue, especially horde side, that have a lot of pugs who've cleared garrosh n and know what they're doing.

[Hypro]

I have a few questions for you mate. 1st is. Do you like it there? 2nd Can you stick it out through all the kinks? If its yes to both then there is no need nor reason to leave, But if one of them is no i would look for another guild.

As to the healer doing 31k dps... i dont think that is possible with cap.. I auto attacked a dummy with my monk in her WW spec and left it going for 30mins(dont ask why) and i was pulling 44k dps so that means that there is something wrong with that player and they may have had a cry that they had to go dps

[Terridon]

K maybe I will stay and see if it's the mechanics then. But was thinking since we specifically have trouble here it would be nice to have that extra dps to handle them quickly.

They have around 1 million HP each. So 6million overall for 5 dps and 2 tanks. They can die within 5 seconds with the dps you have, if you manage to kill them apart from each others so they don't buff up.
Since you die to that, that's most likely the problem. You killing them close to each other, i mean. They gain 200% more damage and HP if another one close to them. It becomes pretty hurtfull if it happens a couple of times+ it delays it since it's more hp to peel off.
It's always a bit slow, unless you all have 5-6 taunts, so you can split them up fast and kill them off.

[Marxman]

Another peeve I have is that we can't just simply sub in a decent dps because we have none because none of the officers or gm's are recruiting, instead we are slowly loosing people.

Every guild who is even semi-serious (basically every guild except friends/family casual guilds) should be actively recruiting at all times. Even if you have a full roster, even if you have people on the bench. The only way to improve your guild is to keep finding better players. Rotating weak links for good players over time.

If your officers aren't even attempting to recruit despite having weak players... you may want to start looking elsewhere. Sounds like the guild has different goals than you do.

[Deleted]

Tanks are doing around the 180-200k mark. Usually we have one dps doing a bit of aoe to help with adds.

Really that low? our alt tank is doing 500k+

[Kreeshak]

I think this would fall into the category incompete leadership, or at least not similar minded people within the group. Your leader should demand that healer improved or actively find a replacement. Having a bigger roster so that that healer can sit out would help. The hard part is to find a good balance between being loyal and gracious to your members but without gimping the whole group. At the unavoidable conflict that will emerge being nice to people/or being mean in order to accomplish your goals - the group must have the same stance. Whoever has a different stance must go and find similar minded people.

[Mirri]

Really that low? our alt tank is doing 500k+

i call bullshit on this. I bet you cant prove this because there are no logs ever of a tank doing 500k+ dps on 10N Garrosh while using 3 heal/2 tank setup.

[Deleted]

Yep. If someone has a problem which seems to be happening a lot lately then we are screwed. After about an hour usually we can pug a replacement dps which is usually someone who hasn't seen the fight before

Ugh, just quit.