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  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    SWTOR has 10million players.
    lol.... really.....

    SWTOR is free to play so they count all ACCOUNTS on their servers as PLAYERS. My estimate is that they have less than 1 million active players, most likely less than 500k.

    Which makes the rest of your post useless and unbelievable as well.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    WoW still has the most subscriptions of any MMO, but don't let yourself get carried away.
    The problem with the F2P numbers is that the average "player" represents a very small revenue stream. The number isn't high because the game is good; the number is high because there's little causing the extremely marginal player to drop out.

    The best comparison is just to look at revenue. By that metric, I'm sure WoW would be on top.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Blizzard themselves.
    Around Wrath (when they had 12 million) they said that the number of people who 'ever' played WoW was triple what they have now.
    That means that in total 36 million people joined WoW and 24 million left in those 5 years.
    So every year almost 5 million people left WoW.
    My initial point was concerning long time players leaving. That just proves my point that they can't draw in and keep new players. If 24 million people tried the game and thought 'stick that up your arse' then i guess retention is an even worse problem than i thought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post

    The best comparison is just to look at revenue. By that metric, I'm sure WoW would be on top.
    You may be right but is you look at the numbers these free games are boasting. No doubt inaccurate but if they do indeed have 20 million people playing the game then all they would need is around a third of them to spend $15 a month to cover how much WOW makes from subs. We have no way of knowing really. While it is hugely successful wow is not some unstoppable behemoth.
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    You may be right but is you look at the numbers these free games are boasting. No doubt inaccurate but if they do indeed have 20 million people playing the game then all they would need is around a third of them to spend $15 a month to cover how much WOW makes from subs. We have no way of knowing really. While it is hugely successful wow is not some unstoppable behemoth.
    We have no way of knowing for sure, but we can infer that the people operating these F2P games don't think that this would happen -- if they did, they'd switch to the sub model to make more money.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    My initial point was concerning long time players leaving. That just proves my point that they can't draw in and keep new players. If 24 million people tried the game and thought 'stick that up your arse' then i guess retention is an even worse problem than i thought.
    Imo it's quite natural that they have a hard time getting new players in. Imagine if you had to start a new video game, a multiplayer game, but before really reaching the multiplayer you'd have to sink in 50+ hours of gameplay in order to get to the social part (speaking of max level here). I probably wouldn't be terribly interested in a game that demanded such a time investment before even showing me if it's really worth playing.

  6. #746
    IMO I think it's naive to think that WoW has so many players currently because of the games quality rather than just feeding off the franchises past success and popularity. Think about it, even non gamers know what WoW is, probably not so about Guildwars or Swtor. It's just the most mainstream game.

  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frakchaw View Post
    Such a constructive post, Bravo!
    I don't like it anymore than the next guy, have been devoted these 9+ years. But; it is what it is (<--- THAT is something I hate saying/hearing)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Nobody is denying that.
    But it's still the King and it's not going to lose that spot in the coming years.
    It's only going to take one innovation for that to change. And that innovation may be sooner than we realize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    And when do games stop being fun?
    Hint: When you play them for a few years in a row!
    Those are the words I'd like to forge into solid, blunt objects and bash over the heads of the keyboard-thumping leetists that still persist to know better than anyone else. You know the ones. This is a fact,this is something no gamer has ever faced before, because no game has ever lasted this long in the limelight before: WoW isn't dying because of newer products, lack of innovations or poor design decisions. Those may be factors, but the underlying reason is the release date of this product:

    November, 2004.

    It is just getting old. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It just is.

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Ateista View Post
    why is it that people just can't get through their thick skulls that this game is nearly A DECADE OLD!

    hell, i'm surprised the numbers stayed as high as they did for this length of time.

    people are just burnt out on wow. that's it. end of story. stop making these asinine posts.

    but, honestly, i think people are just tired of mmo's in general.
    Just because something is a decade old is no excuse for what is happening to this game. By your logic Coca Cola should be bankrupt by now because they're old too.

    People are beginning to realize that recoloring zones, taking features away, and selling a patch as an expansion for $39.99 isn't going to fly anymore.

    People should be excited for an expansion because we expect new and interesting features and mechanics not the same old crap.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Croga View Post
    lol.... really.....

    SWTOR is free to play so they count all ACCOUNTS on their servers as PLAYERS. My estimate is that they have less than 1 million active players, most likely less than 500k.

    Which makes the rest of your post useless and unbelievable as well.
    HURPADURP UR POS USLESS 2 CUZ U DUN ARGE WIT MEH

    SWTOR has between 500,000k-1million WESTERN subscriptions (they never cheated and provided worldwide numbers like Blizzard does). It has 10million players. The person I quoted said that WoW has more players than any free to play game, I provided numbers to the contrary. But by all means, my post is the one that's useless and unbelievable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The problem with the F2P numbers is that the average "player" represents a very small revenue stream. The number isn't high because the game is good; the number is high because there's little causing the extremely marginal player to drop out.

    The best comparison is just to look at revenue. By that metric, I'm sure WoW would be on top.
    I am not trying to start an argument of which game is more successful. The person I quoted stated that WoW has more players than any free to play game, and I was merely telling him he is wrong.

    Although, to be honest, Bioware has admitted that they are raking in cash hand over fist from their cash shop, so I would be interested to see that comparison. And I bet those other Eastern/casual "MMOs" that boast 20+million players make even more than SWTOR does.
    Last edited by iceberg265; 2013-12-07 at 08:32 PM.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
    SWTOR Referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2MpjV9 7 free days and other free stuff.

  10. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
    Just because something is a decade old is no excuse for what is happening to this game. By your logic Coca Cola should be bankrupt by now because they're old too.
    Are you really comparing gaming to food and drinks?
    I think you just made 'economically challenged' an official term.
    People are beginning to realize that recoloring zones, taking features away, and selling a patch as an expansion for $39.99 isn't going to fly anymore.
    People should be excited for an expansion because we expect new and interesting features and mechanics not the same old crap.
    Welcome to 2013, people aren't excited for anything nowadays.
    Complaining and whining is the new worldwide hobby!
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    HURPADURP UR POS USLESS 2 CUZ U DUN ARGE WIT MEH

    SWTOR has between 500,000k-1million WESTERN subscriptions (they never cheated and provided worldwide numbers like Blizzard does). It has 10million players. The person I quoted said that WoW has more players than any free to play game, I provided numbers to the contrary. But by all means, my post is the one that's useless and unbelievable.



    I am not trying to start an argument of which game is more successful. The person I quoted stated that WoW has more players than any free to play game, and I was merely telling him he is wrong.

    Although, to be honest, Bioware has admitted that they are raking in cash hand over fist from their cash shop, so I would be interested to see that comparison. And I bet those other Eastern/casual "MMOs" that boast 20+million players make even more than SWTOR does.
    This is the only article I could find on the topic, not counting those linked in the article itself.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07...llion-in-2012/

    It won't give you numbers about how much companies are making revenue wise, but it shows market share by payment type. I remember seeing a chart back in 2008 that had the top takers. WoW was at the top, then it was all ftp stuff like Maple Story, then at the bottom a couple new sub based mmos (AoC came out around then, so probably that).
    blah, new sig... something something

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    HURPADURP UR POS USLESS 2 CUZ U DUN ARGE WIT MEH

    SWTOR has between 500,000k-1million WESTERN subscriptions (they never cheated and provided worldwide numbers like Blizzard does). It has 10million players. The person I quoted said that WoW has more players than any free to play game, I provided numbers to the contrary. But by all means, my post is the one that's useless and unbelievable.



    I am not trying to start an argument of which game is more successful. The person I quoted stated that WoW has more players than any free to play game, and I was merely telling him he is wrong.

    Although, to be honest, Bioware has admitted that they are raking in cash hand over fist from their cash shop, so I would be interested to see that comparison. And I bet those other Eastern/casual "MMOs" that boast 20+million players make even more than SWTOR does.
    It's accounts, not subscriptions. The boys down in the SWTOR sub-forum will tell you the same thing.

  13. #753
    Personally, I think people are in for a shock when the next sub numbers come out. I don't think the amount of Western/European subs are anywhere near what we think.

  14. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Personally, I think people are in for a shock when the next sub numbers come out. I don't think the amount of Western/European subs are anywhere near what we think.
    Personally I think people are going to make a drama over the new amount of subs and they will "abuse" the number to argument the changes they would like to see
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  15. #755
    Why isnt this thread closed yet?

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhallows View Post
    Oh boy. Let's hop on board the fear train.

    TL;DR: Old game is old. 7 million subscribers ain't bad for it. It's honestly the only answer.
    Putting aside its a 10 year old game for a second, 7 million subs is more then EVERY other MMO in the western markets (not sure about Asia, but one would assume with the amount of people that play MMO's there they would exceed it) put TOGETHER over the last decade. If that's not the definition of success I don't know what is

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Croga View Post
    lol.... really.....

    SWTOR is free to play so they count all ACCOUNTS on their servers as PLAYERS. My estimate is that they have less than 1 million active players, most likely less than 500k.

    Which makes the rest of your post useless and unbelievable as well.
    You're actually right. Bioware stated that have 10 million players who "play occasionally" and 1 million players who login "at least once a month."

  18. #758
    Doesn't Bliz consider the asian subs active even if they really aren't because of their payment system? Seems like they could abuse that to show the stats in their favor.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Doesn't Bliz consider the asian subs active even if they really aren't because of their payment system? Seems like they could abuse that to show the stats in their favor.
    Yep, they do.

    Abuse may not be the exact word for it, but when they can have a 50% loss of revenue with only a 14% sub loss you know those sub numbers don't all mean the same thing.
    blah, new sig... something something

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Doesn't Bliz consider the asian subs active even if they really aren't because of their payment system? Seems like they could abuse that to show the stats in their favor.
    I think it just required logging in once during a quarter and I am unaware if there are any expiration dates on game time.

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