Thread: Heroic Garrosh

  1. #1

    Heroic Garrosh

    We've put two nights in so far (on 10m) and we're making progress but we've obviously still got a long ways to go. We are having some continuous difficulty getting through Intermission 1 with less than 25 energy.

    I was curious if anyone had any advice in the following areas:

    1. Which spec do you think is optimal, and why? (I'm comfortable with all three specs, gear is a little better for fire)
    2. Tricks to optimize personal DPS on Embodied Doubt (Intermission 1)
    3. Any special tips for handling Empowered Whirling Corruption/adds?
    4. Any other non-standard talent/glyph choices?
    5. Solutions to problems I don't know about yet but will run into later in the fight?

    I'm also very receptive to any other general tips on the fight or advice I can direct to my other team members.

    Thanks!
    Minimerlinx - Kel'Thuzad (US)

    <Royal Militia> - 14/14H, US22 10m, is now recruiting all classes for WoD! Apply here!


  2. #2
    talents as fire are obvious. Presence of Mind, Temporal Shield, Cauterize, Living Bomb, Invocation. fire should be better if your tactics requires you to move often. (weapons and malice) else all 3 should be close.
    i guess fire is the worst spec for intermission 1. but im sure it wont magically get you 5 less energy. i wouldnt change the spec for the earlier phases.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Myxel's Avatar
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    Talents
    1. Presence of Mind
    2. Temporal Shield
    3. Doesn't really matter, you won't make much use of this tree.
    4. Greater Invis
    5. Living Bomb
    6. Invocation

    Glyphs should be the same, Glyph of Armors is usefull tho'.

    In the start of the fight use your cooldowns like you usually do -- When Combustion and Presence of Mind are back up, save them for the intermission. As the Intermission is about to start, make sure you have a Pyroblast! proc and rush towards your group of adds. Use a profession CD if you have one (Synapse Springs et c) and cast Living Bomb followed by your Pyroblast! Cast Presence of Mind Pyro and Combust just before it hits, spread your DoTs via Inferno Blast and use your Counterspell wherever needed.

    If you ever don't get a bubble in a intermission, you should use either Ice Block and/or Greater Invis to mitigate/avoid the damage of the first 3 or so smashes. After that raid CD's should keep you alive.

    Depending on how you deal with the Empowered Whirling Adds you should approach it differently -- If you use a Brewmaster Monk to kite the adds then you should be very cautious with how you use Inferno Blast, spreading a high Ignite et c is something that can easily wipe you. The only spell you should ever see damaging those adds is a DPS cloak since it's uncontrollable.

    Make sure you get your second Alter Time off whenever your third Combustion is coming up, allowing you to push two Combustions in during that phase and thus, pushing damage as much as possible since all damage from now on can help decide how your Phase 3 is going to look like (I.e, negating the last Whirling just before Phase 3.)

    Other than that just make sure you'll have a Greater Invis ready for Phase 4, incase you need to take double stacks of the Malicious Blast debuff on either the 2nd or 4th Malice.

    Good luck!
    Myxel-Immersion 14/14H-EU-Frostmane 25M

  4. #4
    Enter p1 intermission with 4 set and Pyro! + heating up and the 4 set from inferno blast. Since i am on the back adds i dot one mob from each pack with lb on my way there. Save combust for the intermission and proceed to POM + spam 3 pyros on one add -> combust into spread. The mobs should die from that (do the back pack with a hunter.) and i do around 7 mil consistantly. Combust should interrupt your nuke target add so you can cs one of the stragglers while scorching -> pyro. Don't bother with bombs on your nuke group. I used ginvis for progress and would recommend it. A good threat drop if you need extra damage on adds while running in p2 intermission + the iron stars in the p4.




    As arcane you basically save Arcane power, and enter the intermission with 4 stacks. AE on the way to your mobs (glyped) to keep up stacks. Barrage to finish the adds off but remember that once you do barrage you're damage goes shit in the intermission so delay. Don't bother with bombs. Ginvis for the whirling corruption adds to stand still when the purple puddle lands and you'll rape the minions if you have 4 stacks up. Also usefull as a threat drop (consider getting a bop from a pala for more aoe during p2 intermission) and for iron stars + fixate in p1. Arcane isn't shit in p3 and p4 if you are allowed to stand on the boss for desecrates (p3) and stand away from the malice (p4) obviously run in when it's about to happen :=)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Use double blink, combust and iceblock/ infernoblast glyph. Glyph of remove curse if you have a warlock and you need more damage in p3 burn (just curse some one on the mc before it.) and you can stagger 15% damage with every cd you're popping there. (really usefull but shouldn't be used during anything but progress when you're strugglign with meeting the dps check.

    As arcane glyph AE, AP, and blink.

  5. #5
    Wouldn't it be arcane much better for phase 3? (standing at melee obviously). I'm also progressing on this fight swapping between specs (I'm going to be poor with so many gem change!), still undecided, but I think arcane will be the way to go because of phase 3 mostly. On first intermission if you don't drop charges, arcane is awesome, and for the second intermission with bop arcane is the best spec by far.

    For last phase though I guess fire will be easier (not there yet), but this fight imho is just about getting there.

    ps: lei shen much better final boss than garrosh. This feels like sha from terrace .
    Last edited by seijulala; 2013-11-27 at 10:20 AM.

  6. #6
    I'd say it depends on the mobility of your other ranged. If your p3 tactic involves you moving out for desecrates fire will pull ahead. I guess. P4 if you can stand outside and not participate in the malice soaking, arcane isn't too bad. Just make sure you move in preemptively should you get the debuff.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Jarim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myxel View Post
    Talents
    1. Presence of Mind
    2. Temporal Shield
    3. Doesn't really matter, you won't make much use of this tree.
    4. Greater Invis
    5. Living Bomb
    6. Invocation

    Glyphs should be the same, Glyph of Armors is usefull tho'.

    In the start of the fight use your cooldowns like you usually do -- When Combustion and Presence of Mind are back up, save them for the intermission. As the Intermission is about to start, make sure you have a Pyroblast! proc and rush towards your group of adds. Use a profession CD if you have one (Synapse Springs et c) and cast Living Bomb followed by your Pyroblast! Cast Presence of Mind Pyro and Combust just before it hits, spread your DoTs via Inferno Blast and use your Counterspell wherever needed.

    If you ever don't get a bubble in a intermission, you should use either Ice Block and/or Greater Invis to mitigate/avoid the damage of the first 3 or so smashes. After that raid CD's should keep you alive.

    Depending on how you deal with the Empowered Whirling Adds you should approach it differently -- If you use a Brewmaster Monk to kite the adds then you should be very cautious with how you use Inferno Blast, spreading a high Ignite et c is something that can easily wipe you. The only spell you should ever see damaging those adds is a DPS cloak since it's uncontrollable.

    Make sure you get your second Alter Time off whenever your third Combustion is coming up, allowing you to push two Combustions in during that phase and thus, pushing damage as much as possible since all damage from now on can help decide how your Phase 3 is going to look like (I.e, negating the last Whirling just before Phase 3.)

    Other than that just make sure you'll have a Greater Invis ready for Phase 4, incase you need to take double stacks of the Malicious Blast debuff on either the 2nd or 4th Malice.

    Good luck!
    In 10man (from my experience) the adds die way to quickly, to be able to be worth spreading combustion to. Much rather use the combustion right as it come back up before the 1st intermission. You should really not just "use a counterspell where it's needed" either. In 10man you NEED to have everything figured out beforehand stuns/interrupts.

    Want to point out as Myxel did too that if you have a monk kiting the adds you HAVE TO HOLD BACK YOUR INFERNO blast during the whirlings if there is any adds whatsoever in melee. Because your pyroblast dot coupled with a few cloak procs will kill an add and fuck everything up.

    If you have good enough DPS and only get 1 whirling in P2 and P3 I would advice you to use g-invis during those whirlings, as there is exactly 1½ minute between (so use it early in P2 whirling). Don't worry too much about the adds. They are extremely easy to handle. And yeah, as other posters pointed out be sure to use double blink.

    Oh, and I would definately advice fire for 10man as it simply brings a lot more utility to your raid group in terms of movement.
    Last edited by Jarim; 2013-11-27 at 01:38 PM.

  8. #8
    1. Which spec do you think is optimal, and why? (I'm comfortable with all three specs, gear is a little better for fire)
    All specs would work, but fire (IMO) is best for this fight

    2. Tricks to optimize personal DPS on Embodied Doubt (Intermission 1)
    Kinda overkill, but I chose to glyph cone of cold and use that on cooldown on the adds.

    3. Any special tips for handling Empowered Whirling Corruption/adds?
    Temporal shield for every one and use greater invis if you ever get low, or you can just use greater invis for every other one. Get aggro of the add that lands on you, move out of the circle and quickly move back in and hit it with a spell asap, it seems to 'love' the target that hits it first (not 100% true but reliable enough)

    4. Any other non-standard talent/glyph choices?
    Other than cone of cold? No.

    5. Solutions to problems I don't know about yet but will run into later in the fight?
    Greater invis is a godsend, you are able to use for every other empowered/regular whirling corruption. And allows you to reliably soak multiple malice stacks in phase 4 depending on your strategy for spawning iron stars and when to spread for bombardment.
    Temporal shield whenever you are taking dmg (intermissions, twice for each one) (every whirling corruption)
    We stacked for MCs and I cone of colded (glyphed) and spammed Arcane explosion to break them. Very rarely spreading my pyro dot (only if it was low <40k, not ideal so probably just stay away from that as it stays on your target and forces a healer dispel or a lot of extra damage on your raidmates)
    Obviously blink out of the circle of death before taking any ticks.
    Last edited by Hauntedd; 2013-11-29 at 06:22 PM.
    US 1st 10M -- Nightmare Asylum 14/14H

  9. #9
    1. Fire is best, especially if you're moving a lot (i.e. running out to place the desecrated weapon).

    2. Don't save combustion for the first intermission, the adds should be dying quickly enough that it'll be a huge waste (25m perspective). Have a pyro ready before you go in, dot living bomb on a few adds as you're running to your position then LB, pyro > spread and focus down an add with fireball + pyro procs. You should also have interrupts assigned.

    3. Really depends on your tactic, but the best advice is temporal shield, don't get hit by swirly purple stuff on the ground, healthstone if low.

    4. I take double blink, combustion, inferno blast glyphs but you can swap out inferno blast for cone of cold / armors. As for talents, temporal shield all the way, cauterize is fine and take greater invis if you need the 90% dmg reduction for malice (or if you prefer it to cauterize).

    5. If you alter time with the malice debuff on you, remember you will still have it when alter time expires and must move away to avoid getting a second stack. DON'T SPREAD COMBUSTION TO THE MIND CONTROLLED PEOPLE, THEY WILL GET VERY ANGRY. Oh and don't worry if you spread pyro dot, it ticks for about 25k every 2 seconds (that's nothing).
    Last edited by katmage; 2013-11-30 at 05:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal zandiy's Avatar
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    Using combustion on the adds is only a dps increase if they stay alive for more than 6-7 seconds(in intermission) since 3 targets + you get it off CD faster. I used it like that on our first kill

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by seijulala View Post
    Wouldn't it be arcane much better for phase 3? (standing at melee obviously). I'm also progressing on this fight swapping between specs (I'm going to be poor with so many gem change!), still undecided, but I think arcane will be the way to go because of phase 3 mostly. On first intermission if you don't drop charges, arcane is awesome, and for the second intermission with bop arcane is the best spec by far.

    For last phase though I guess fire will be easier (not there yet), but this fight imho is just about getting there.

    ps: lei shen much better final boss than garrosh. This feels like sha from terrace .
    Last phase is no joke. There are no public logs on WoL for anyone for heroic garrosh on any level, but there are for normal mode, and in normals, fire and arcane are about even. I think it's rather indisputable that fire is better at single target dps while moving. Overall, I'd expect fire and arcane to have about similar dps when played equally well in equal gear on garrosh, as there are some stationary moments where arcane shines, and some high movement moments where fire is going to be better.

    Also, 99.9% sure Vykina was fire on Method's world first Garrosh, so there's that as well. I'm sure arcane could/would be fine, fire being more mobile overall (as well as being more useful on thok and blackfuse, meaning you won't have to regem every single boss) is what I'd stick with.

  12. #12
    I've been doing the fight as frost, since I'm better at frost than I am at fire anyway. We're just about in P4 and I've had no trouble matching our fire mage on every target. Frost is worlds better for killing desecrated weapons in P1 -if- your raid is stacking and burning them, and it's very strong for quickly breaking MCs while not losing much boss damage in doing so. It's also strong for both sets of transition adds with frozen orb and ice lance cleave, I'm top 2-3 (25m) on jade serpent adds and top 4-5 on terrace adds, which you are unlikely to be as fire. The spot where frost is weaker than fire is boss damage in P1 and warbringer damage, though the latter meter is just about irrelevant.

    If fire were my strongest spec I'd play it, but I'm better at arcane/frost and our strat has too much movement for arcane to be reliable as I generally don't get to "play arcane, scumbag and be considered a melee when it comes to mechanics", so frost it is.

    Arcane is probably as strong as fire if not more so if your strat allows you to sit in melee the entire time, or you're employing the "stack and kill every desecrated weapon in P2 except the one that comes at the same time as whirl" strat.
    Last edited by citrique; 2013-12-04 at 03:23 PM.

  13. #13
    Here's our second Garrosh 10H kill as arcane, which I consider to have played as well as I could hope for. It could be useful for mages looking for a comparison (e.g. comparebot). Note, I was receiving tricks.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10923&e=11670

  14. #14
    I know compliments on forums are as rare as a 4 leafed clover on mars, but I wanna say that the video minimage posted in the videos section showed absolutely excellent arcane mage gameplay on heroic garrosh, I feel that any mage who wants to do garrosh heroic should watch that video and show it to their RL as to how you should be best utilized on that fight.

    Off-topic: Looking at that log, disc priest = so OP. I have a pally friend who has been complaining about them all expac long, and as much as I hate to hear whining, it's really true, doing 120k dps and 140k hps ... I count 53 Penance casts on enemies, and 6 as direct heals on players. And using the dps cloak. Just... /smh. Disc priest this expac has felt like god mode more than any class/role I can ever remember playing. Really hope they fix that for the next xpac or really everyone is just going to abandon every other healer for disc.

  15. #15
    Wow, thanks very much for that! That's very kind of you.

    Our Disc is really, really good. Having his DPS contribution offset our lack of warlock :P.

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