Gear Changes in Warlords of Draenor

[bergmann620]

I think the system we're heading to is both more and less complex, and not in a great way.

[Pheros]

I personally really, really like every aspect of these changes. I rather enjoy that it will be nearly impossible to have that "perfect" set, and reforging always felt like cheating anyway. I guess I'm in the minority, but greatly looking forward to this.

[Tkeleth]

I think the system we're heading to is both more and less complex, and not in a great way.

For better or worse, they're just homogenizing the mechanics of World of Warcraft with those of Diablo 3. Look at all the cross-contamination in the new talent system with the skill system in Diablo 3... I wouldn't be surprised to see them just simply remove about half (okay, half may be an exaggeration) of the skills/spells for each class in WoW because "it's too hard for players, we need to simplify it."

[Pyromanyac]

Another prime example of "we know what you like and this is how you enjoy playing". What happened to true player choice that defined mmos and rpgs all together? RNG has always been part of games and everything is good with it as long as a method of overcoming RNG is in place. Reforging and sockets on almost every item was that method. Killing a boss 100 times/day is the method in arpgs. Every game with significant RNG factor has a way of overcoming it if you invest enough time/currency in it. Reforging was not the all be savior of bad luck, it provided the option to use an item not suited for your spec and still gain something from it, of course an item with the proper stats is always better than the reforged one, so why the hell did they remove it? It doesn't make sense. Without hit/expertise/parry/dodge reforging would have been amazing. The only explanation I can think of is that they want content to last longer as players strive to get BiS. The way they're doing it is just beyond lame.

[Urza29]

i liked the old way in MOP, but add even more to it, not less. I find that even though the whole changing out of forging/gem/chants can be annoying, if they fix that (have a set "saved", pay flat rate gold to just change out all at once, 1 click")

If you are a disc priest and want to switch to shadow and all your gear is spirit/crit, and all your gems/chants are spirit/crit, without a 2nd set of gear, the changeover would be painful/not optimal. In my ideal setup for WOD i would like for the gear to switch over secondary stats too. For example, if gear is crit rating, and you need haste for shadow, either when u switch it converts it over? or gives you the option like it asks do u want to switch to haste? or by slot even?

the biggest problem with doing it though, is that that now means all gear effectively is just baseline, doesn't matter what stats drop on it, cuz you can just switch them out for what you need anyways...but think for a moment how much easier that would be on dev time and faster content could come out, if they only had to design a few items in each slot, that covered all classes/specs, and when stuff drops, yes everyone would want/roll but that would be the case the entire expansion, loot would be valuable still because you still need the "base" items (and the "extra stats is just gravy)

keep in WF and the other things, teritary stats and what not, but allow us more customization with the secondary stats, like for example if a item drops that is spirit/crit +cleave and a gem, for my priest, i can use it for disc spec, but when i switch to shadow later, the crit can be changed into haste, on demand? and the gem switched too? I think the main point is to not have to have a 2nd set of gear, period, ever. They can do so much more with letting the player customize/choose than just having it in your bags to stay optimal?

with the advent of transmog not like we need different looking gear anyways, sans really cool looking stuff each tier, to transmog our old stuff into? so i think they can expand on the spec switching thing, so the gear is still needed by all, but make the spec change less painful, easy and intuitive, for a flat fee, switch all, done.

I dream of the day i can play my disc priest in really good gear, heal a raid, then hop out, hit a few buttons, pop into shadow spec and jump into LFR to dps, within 5 min or less of each other, with no going to AH, buying anything, or enchanting, finding mats, gems, looking anything else up, just drop 1 for the other, and go...THAT would sell me 200% for this expansion alone.

[shise]

I'd honestly still prefer a triple spec option. Playing a priest, for example, is quite annoying. I am a healer but I obviously go as shadow to do quests or grind, or just because I want to be shadow out of raids/dungeons. If I want to be a good healer I must be holy and disc in order to be able to switch my style if required.

So I can't even imagine how being a druid must feel right now x)

[crsh1976]

Silly Blizzard.

Every time they try to simplify the stats system, they end up with yet-another nonsensical mess they have to re-do over.

Their new direction is neither good or bad, it's just yet-another direction - can't they just make up their mind and stick to it?

There's a really easy way out they seem to want to avoid at all costs for some stupid reason: just make a specific stat for a specific type of armor, then work specs/class details around it or change what class can wear what.

Strength = Plate
Mail = Just scrap it
Agility = Leather
Intellect = Cloth

Then, because they insist on having a plate-wearing healing class, just have a system that converts strength (or agility leather for druids and shammys) into intellect when in a healing spec.

Too boring? Perhaps, but it's S I M P L E.

[Deleted]

"For her healing set, let’s assume this player also has one ring with Spirit, a shield with Spirit, and a trinket that procs on heals. The trinket is almost useless in her Retribution set. The shield is also useless, since Retribution is designed to wield a two-handed weapon. The ring will be sub-optimal because Spirit is useless to a Retribution Paladin, but if it has another valuable stat (e.g. Haste), it may still be worth using—again depending on how min-max-focused the player is.

A more casual player would probably be fine just using the trinket anyway and using a lower Item Level two-handed mace when she plays Retribution. A more min-max player would probably want separate rings, cloaks, trinkets, neck pieces, and weapons to use in the different specs. A very min-max player—such as someone competing in world-first Mythic raid progression—might even want different heads, shoulders, chests, and so on depending on the mix of secondary stats. This player might even swap out gems between the two specs"

This example nearly made me cry from laughter. I think some people at blizzard are very confused about the definitions of "Mix-maxer" and "casual". They seem to be describing more casual players as utter morons who would happily skip along dpsing with a healer trinket. This is not the case. I'm not a casual player myself, but I have plenty of friends who are, as they don't have a lot of time to put into the game, and this would be borderline insulting to them. Also don't even get me started on their view of a mix maxer. A world first Mythic raider might EVEN swap out a gem guys! That's world first level shit right there! Lmao. In tears.

[Deianeira]

You're still going to see spreadsheets when Mr Robot or other gear checkers will expect you to have these 3rd stats min-maxed with your main stats to be an efficient raider. For example, if Life Steal is going to be good for tanks, Mr Robot and gear checkers will tell you to get it or buzz off. WoD is not making stats easier no matter how you see it. Depending on your class and Blizzard's itemization, this can be absolutely dreadful (Blizzard's itemization has been pretty bad).

i dont know what MrRobot site you been looking on that say "get this stat or gtfo out of raiding"!! Srsly yes MrRobot will likely say that "If you get more of this stat you will become better" But im fairly sure that there will never be any requirement for example tanks to have X amount of Lifesteal!

[Deleted]

I don't think that's correct.
The right way to think about this is: 1 out of 3 items (33%) has at least 1 bonus, which means you'll have a 1/9 chance to have a 2 bonus item, and a 1/27 chance for a 3 bonus item.

1/27*100 = 3.7% for 3 bonus
(1/9-1/27)*100= 7,4% for exactly 2 ----> (1/9*100= 11.1% with at least 2)
(1/3-1/9-1/27)*100= 22,2% for exactly 1-----> (1/3*100=33.3% with at least 1)
66.7% for 0

I think this is pretty good considering TBC legendaries were 1% drops with perfect stats and sick procs

1% is still 10 times more than 0.1!

For example: 20man raid - 10 bosses * 4 loots per boss = 40 loots every week.
40*0.1 = 4% ... once in 25 raids we will see item with 3 bonuses.

If it were 2.5% instead of 0.1, it would be 40*2.5=100%.. 1 item each week if you kill all bosses..
sounds much better.. still very rare, but a fu**ing miracle.

If it were 1%: 40*1 = 40%.. every 2 and a half weeks we will see 1 item.. still not very exciting - must be more than 1%

Imo it should be more like 1.5-3%, NOT 0.1% to get perfect item.

[ronaldmc]

Not sure what my opinion is about the additional properties...

We'll have RNG deciding if we get 0, 1, 2 or 3 extra bonus (warforged, gems or tertiary stats) in an equipment...
This is interesting because we will be able to keep looting bosses even after we've defeated them several times, trying to get that one master armor... However, how frustrating will it be since everyone will want the 3 bonuses and just a few will get them? Will it be fair if people who play way less can get lucky and win a 3 bonus armor? What about AH? We'll probably have price tiers for items that have 0,1,2 or 3 bonuses. And auctions of 3 bonus BOE armors will be the way to get rich (pure luck money).

And won't jewelcrafters lose a lot of their income and maybe the utility of their profession? Ok, the gems may get to a higher price to compensate, but what if the market becomes too segmented towards harcore players since they'll have more chances at getting slotted items because they raid and craft more often? Will casual jewelcrafters have a chance to use their profession for themselves, since they'll play occasionally, reducing their chances to get their own slotted armors to insert those profession exclusive gems?

[Fiercon]

The statchanges are the best idea since sliced bread - and I AM a min-max player.

Whats so fun about reforging? Whats so fun bout having stats to fill up to a certain point where they become useless? Getting rid of hit and expertise doesn't mean that it was something we needed beforehand. We are just USED to it.

Getting used to not having a "perfect" mitigation stat like parry or dodge is something differet, I agree. But it broke every expansion so far and makes damage and its mitigation much more unpredictable - up to the point where bossencounters where either trivial (lucky enough to avoid) or one-shots.

I'm looking forward to trying the new simplified version of the statsystem and I LOVE the "free" secondspec gear that comes with changing primary stats.

[Deleted]

Imo it should be more like 1.5-3%, NOT 0.1% to get perfect item.

well with a 33.3% for each bonus you get a 3.7% chance for 3 bonus items, which is pretty close to what you are saying.
Fact is, if they add random socket colours and many tertiary stats to the equation, the chances to get the perfect item (with the right socket and the one tertiary you want) are way lower.

I see what they are doing here: they are adding fun "free" stuff in order to make gear more fun... but it's not fun when people are competing on content and they are deliberately making things not even for everyone adding more and more RNG.
I mean, it's even beacuse I have the same chance of dropping that perfect item as everyone else, but the race is not even once I have it and everyone else doesn't.

[Pickwickman]

well with a 33.3% for each bonus you get a 3.7% chance for 3 bonus items, which is pretty close to what you are saying.
Fact is, if they add random socket colours and many tertiary stats to the equation, the chances to get the perfect item (with the right socket and the one tertiary you want) are way lower.

I see what they are doing here: they are adding fun "free" stuff in order to make gear more fun... but it's not fun when people are competing on content and they are deliberately making things not even for everyone adding more and more RNG.
I mean, it's even beacuse I have the same chance of dropping that perfect item as everyone else, but the race is not even once I have it and everyone else doesn't.

Ofcourse it can change until the release of WoD; but the actual post says 10% chance per added tertiary effect (xforge/stat/socket)

So actually a 0.1^3= 0.001 = 0.1% chance to drop an item with all stats, and 0.02% chance for your wanted tertiary stat.

[ganush]

The more I look at this change the more I think it's going to be a huge mistake. Firstly, I didn't mind my BiS being a checklist. It's actually nice to have an end goal of gear that is achievable. The new system really makes it so achieving BiS is a thing of the past.

Secondly, there are going to be a lot of new 20 man guilds forming in WoD, comprised of either guild merges or recruitment and the combination of feeling out new relationships combined with this new loot system is going to cause a lot of loot drama.

[rogas]

i would have prefered something like this:

- primary stats/gems/enchants adjust to the spec you're currently playing

- Only secondary stats can be reforged.

- gear can be upgraded (+8ilev) with valor points

- emblems can also be turned in for 6 tokens weekly. Each of those tokens let's you either warforge, put a gem socked or add a tertiary stat on any piece of gear of your choice...
(so each week you'll have 3 bonus gear rolls, 6 gear upgrade options, and the 4 times 4ilev upgrades)

[Phasma]

The more I look at this change the more I think it's going to be a huge mistake. Firstly, I didn't mind my BiS being a checklist. It's actually nice to have an end goal of gear that is achievable. The new system really makes it so achieving BiS is a thing of the past.

Secondly, there are going to be a lot of new 20 man guilds forming in WoD, comprised of either guild merges or recruitment and the combination of feeling out new relationships combined with this new loot system is going to cause a lot of loot drama.

To your first point: How is it nice? Are you implying that sitting in a major city waiting for the next patch with BiS on is fun? If so, to whom? Also, to your second point: What? Isn't that what people already do? I'm pretty sure it is. I don't think this new loot system will cause any more drama than what already exists. Give it a chance. You might like it.

[Deleted]

Ofcourse it can change until the release of WoD; but the actual post says 10% chance per added tertiary effect (xforge/stat/socket)

So actually a 0.1^3= 0.001 = 0.1% chance to drop an item with all stats, and 0.02% chance for your wanted tertiary stat.

Yeah, I know... I was duscussing on an ideal drop chance in my opinion.
0.1% (or 0.02%) just makes everything worse, while a 3% seems fine to me in comparison with the drop chance of the TBC legendaries, if it makes any sense.

[Deleted]

This all sound good but as for me a pvp player i don't know how will give me an advantage because all thing in this post was pve oriented....

[Whidbey]

I'd like to know how this affects pvp as well