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  1. #221
    The Lightbringer Kerath's Avatar
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    I actually liked the first tier of Cata quite a bit. I liked the return to more difficult heroic dungeons and liked being able to explore two different raids - and I liked the boss fights in those raids. Some fun and engaging encounters. I also enjoyed leveling up to 85, the high levels zones were well done, I thought, if a bit too linear for my liking (Deepholm is one of my favourite zones). Things went steadily down hill from there, unfortunately. Redoing ZG and ZA into 5 mans was not a good move in my opinion - maybe that's connected to my nostalgia for those places when I raided them as current content, so biased opinion is probably biased. Firelands did not grab me. I know a lot of people liked it but the environment gave me molten core flashbacks.
    I think Dragon Soul is the worse end of expansion raid - and second only to ToC in the race for 'worst raid ever', for me. I was very disappointed by the re-used environments, the fact that we just portalled from random placed to random place instead of exploring and conquering an enemy stronghold, it just felt terribly uninspired. I enjoyed the Spine fight but then Madness was just.... what? We're fighting Deathwing's... tentacles? And then we had that for months on end. *Shudder*

    Edit: Oh and transmog. I can't completely hate the expansion that brought us transmog
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  2. #222
    cata: I was doing dungeons, raids, arena, bgs
    mop: I am doing raids, arena, bgs

    cata wins

  3. #223
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    It was pretty bad. Not just because of the poor choices in content and patch times, but they completely abandoned the idea of a cohesive story. Scattered, unconnected zones and marginally connected villains with no driving force other than general "doom." It was actually pretty close to vanilla in the sense that each zone and story arc had nothing to do with each other. The difference being that vanilla had much better story arcs.
    Sometimes 'Merica happens, and you just have to deal with that.

  4. #224
    I'd say it was quite bad in comparison to any other expansion. Maybe PVP was fine (didn't play much PVP in Cata). Other than that, if even that, PvE content was god awful. Tier 11 had very boring raid instances except for TotFW, Firelands was too small (the quest island was decent I guess), and Dragon Soul was a pure disgrace, no new environments, fly into the fucking corruption pits and kill blobs etc..... It didn't really feel like a new area, as it was so spread out. The remade questing from 1-60 was kind of cool, but they removed group quests and took away any challenge whatsoever from that. 4.1 was lousy patch. The hard heroics were awesome though, allthough using the LFD with it was a pain at times.

    Imo TBC was a 9/10, WotLK a 7/10, MoP 6/10, while Cataclysm was like 3/10. Of course just my personal opinion but I've tried to be as objective as possible, some nostalgia might be represented still though

  5. #225
    Cata was not that bad in my opinion, at least the initial content was pretty good. The Level 1-60 revamp was necessary but with the downside of less endgame content.
    I also liked the Firelands patch.
    But 4.3 Patch: I think the only good thing were the 3 Dungeons and i guess transmog. The Dragonsoul raid was just bad (too few bosses for an end-of-expansion raid, horrible endboss, faceroll nerfs for months,...).

  6. #226
    The Patient DCT1080's Avatar
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    There are more reasons why Cataclysm was the worst expansion so far and very damaging for the game than the generic "Dragon Soul" answer. Cataclysm tried to do the right thing by the (by a huge majority, casual) playerbase, but the features implemented were poorly thought out.

    1. The endboss was someone that nobody gave a flying fuck about, if they even heard of him before 4.3. (Just like Garrosh tbh)
    1a. Green jesus saves the world, not us.
    1b. We faced that random pointless dragon nobody cared about, for a year.
    2. The experiment to make 10 man equal to 25 man in terms of ilvl was a serious mistake, made people believe they were better players than they actually were and, of course, caused massive irreparable damage to more 25 man guilds than anyone will ever realise.
    2a. This mistake was not corrected until 6.0 but Blizzard still didn't have the fortitude to just make Mythic 25 man.
    3. The series of nerfs to raids and dungeons in 4.2 onwards was unnecessary and Blizzard should have been firmer with the playerbase and encourage them to play better and be more community minded. Possibly they should have made LFD/LFR choose players from single servers until the queue hit 30 mins or so.
    4. The introduction of LFR was basically the final nail in the coffin where server community is concerned.
    5. Vanilla zones being revamped and introducing flying to azeroth was nice, but obviously cost to much time and money that could not be spent on meaningful content.
    5a. Dis-contiguous Cataclysm levelling zones.
    6. Azeroth only revamped for flying until you get so far north, then its loading screen and no more flying...
    7. The total fuckup with the lockouts and raid sizes wasn't the only damage done to guilds. All guilds suffered in some way from the ridiculous guild perk and levelling system. The point of a guild is to play with like minded people and advance your character through working towards a common goal, gearing up and having fun. Together. With other people. In a civilised manner.
    7a. Guilds are now the source of 10% increased run speed and mass ressurection. Fucking mass summon, jesus h christ.
    7b. Good fucking luck to you if you were a small guild and therefore doomed to be sub lvl 25 for longer than the guild next door.
    8. They followed the expansion with Pandas that nobody gave a fuck about and in fact were so tenuous to the lore, that even if you played the WC series, you'd be bloody lucky to know anything about Chen. Also, 1 quest in WoW does not justify an entire expansion about an April fools joke.

    There will be more reasons why Cataclysm was totally shit, but I'm getting to angry thinking about it so I'll leave it at that.

  7. #227
    The Patient Dom's Avatar
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    I liked T11, but it's too bad they rushed ToTFW and released it before it was finished. I think they should've waited until 4.2 with more bosses, bigger raid, bosses actually having a voice, and their heroic modes not being terrible.

    But then we got two lousy troll heroics. ZA hardly being any different to ZA 10 man. A good comparison would be Naxx 40m -> Naxx 2.0. No one really cared for them. You can't release 2 dungeons and call it a content patch.

    That was followed by a 7 boss raid. That might have been tolerable if we didn't get bosses like Shannox and Rhyolith. And oh god that trash. Too much.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those troll heroic and FL were supposed to be out on release? With 12 months of ICC and such minimal content in Cata, I really want to know what they were doing for 18 months.

    Once they realized sub numbers were really starting to take a hit, they blanket nerfed FL by 15-25% midway through the tier, even though that had nothing to do with why people were quitting. It was that most players only had dailies and terribad LFD groups to look forward to.

    Lastly, we got a raid worse than ToC, and as a final raid no less. Everything about it was so bad. It makes we wonder how a company like Blizzard could consider that acceptable. Story had a lot of plot holes, no new environments, boring bosses clearly designed in a way to make LFR a success (though Hagara was good), "hand on the dial" monthly nerfs to invalidate the accomplishments by guilds, and all of that dragged on for 10 months.

    Oh yeah and Abyssal Maw got scrapped, the raid I was looking forward to the most.

    Cata still makes me kind of sad, I don't think most people realized how much potential it had and how much of that Blizzard threw away.

  8. #228
    Mechagnome BEYR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballack View Post
    I'd say it was quite bad in comparison to any other expansion. Maybe PVP was fine (didn't play much PVP in Cata). Other than that, if even that, PvE content was god awful. Tier 11 had very boring raid instances except for TotFW, Firelands was too small (the quest island was decent I guess), and Dragon Soul was a pure disgrace, no new environments, fly into the fucking corruption pits and kill blobs etc..... It didn't really feel like a new area, as it was so spread out. The remade questing from 1-60 was kind of cool, but they removed group quests and took away any challenge whatsoever from that. 4.1 was lousy patch. The hard heroics were awesome though, allthough using the LFD with it was a pain at times.

    Imo TBC was a 9/10, WotLK a 7/10, MoP 6/10, while Cataclysm was like 3/10. Of course just my personal opinion but I've tried to be as objective as possible, some nostalgia might be represented still though
    The only thing PvP had going for it (as a warrior) was throwdown. Getting to any clothie was pretty much insta-death for them. But we were stun-locked most of the time.
    Sometimes 'Merica happens, and you just have to deal with that.

  9. #229
    The problem with Cataclysm was the lack of a continent. The world felt disconnected and they added reused dungeons instead of a raid as a major patch.

    The loot was messed up too people just skipped content and now we have no progression with LFR and all.

  10. #230
    Honestly, Cataclysm was my favorite expansion. Didn't particularly like Dragon Soul, but I loved the dungeons, t11 and 12 were great, and Deepholm/Vashj'ir are probably my favorite zones in the game.

  11. #231
    1. I did not hate the troll-dungeons as much as most people seemed to do. In fact, I enjoyed them a lot and I didn't really care that I'd done them before. Like other awesome instances, they are awesome even to this day. But of course, I can understand that most people were sick of them at that time.

    2. Firelands however was a huge disappointment, and I seriously don't understand why so many people seem to have fond memories of it. Sure, there were some cool fights such as Alysrazor and Ragnaros, but I found this raid to be incredibly boring.

    3. As for Dragon Soul, I'm not even gonna bother. The black sheep of WoW raiding, and rightfully so. What a disaster of a raid.

    Overall, I'd say that Cataclysm was a pretty mediocre expansion compared to the other ones, and not just in terms of raiding. Looking at the lackluster amount of content we got during the expansions' patch cycle, I've always felt like Blizzard simply gave up on Cataclysm about halfway in and moved their focus to MoP instead.
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  12. #232
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    The nostalgia is kicking in, by this time next year we'll be comparing Cataclysm to BC and Wrath as "the pinnacle of WoW, unlike MoP and WoD."
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  13. #233
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    The nostalgia is kicking in, by this time next year we'll be comparing Cataclysm to BC and Wrath as "the pinnacle of WoW, unlike MoP and WoD."
    How is that nostalgia? It's realism.
    Nostalgia would be if this thread was about "the good old days" in Cataclysm, but it isn't. It's that Cataclysm wasn't as bad as people are pretending it to be.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    How is that nostalgia? It's realism.
    Nostalgia would be if this thread was about "the good old days" in Cataclysm, but it isn't. It's that Cataclysm wasn't as bad as people are pretending it to be.
    Because that is fact, and not subjective. Am I right?
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  15. #235
    Stood in the Fire Number Eighteen's Avatar
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    Personally, I've enjoyed most of Cataclysm but even I have a few negatives of the whole expansion.

    1) Deathwing. He was portrayed as a cunning and manipulative individual in the Warcraft novels, which made him awesome. However in Cataclysm he's just a "RAWR ME SMASH" kind of guy, which sucked out a lot of the good story he had. It's like he just flipped a switch and decided to zerg the world.

    2) Thrall. I loved Thrall as a character, but Cataclysm really broke him for as far as I'm concerned. He was just overdone. I can't quite explain it well but he was way too powerful for the amount of time he's actually spent to fully embrace Shamanism rather than his warrior-like approach. As you can see him struggle in Nagrand, even in the books this happens for a bit - but on many other cases it's like he's been doing it for years and has no problems whatsoever to do his thing.

    3) Several contradictions in WoW compared to what you read in the novels. For example, Kalecgos' ascension to Aspect is a whole lot different in both the game and the book. The Eye of Eternity is destroyed, when we killed Malygos the former Spellweaver shattered the platform, which is still acknowledged in Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects. In 4.3 we casually fight Hagara on that same platform.

    4) 4.3, I think this patch ranks amongst some of the worst patches in WoW's history atleast when it comes to content. Something about End Time made me not like it, can't really place my finger on it though. I loved the Well of Eternity dungeon, but felt like it would've been -much- nicer if it was a raid, telling a more detailed story of the War of the Ancients. Would've also increased the boss count for raiding if it were one. Hour of Twilight was...kinda weird, similar to how I feel of End Time. And then the true horror, Dragon Soul. While fancy new models aren't a must for me, it felt a bit bland that all of it was re-used except Deathwing's Madness model. Not only that, the difficulty of the raid was beyond boring and it was a faceroll festivity to me, and from a storytelling pov, it made Deathwing look really bad, and I mean like a cartoon villain that ends up failing miserably. I couldn't even take him serious, it was that horrible. LFR...meh, didn't care - it was useful, just a shitty loot system back then.
    Last edited by Number Eighteen; 2013-11-30 at 02:06 AM.

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  16. #236
    I really really enjoyed Cata questing actually...

    Gilneas and the Goblin starting experience were both awesome and the whole new Undead story (from Tirisfal to Silverpine to Hillsbrad and then the Plaguelands) were to me some of the awesomest quests in the game.
    I also really liked some of the stuff in Vashj'ir and Twilight Highlands. I thought Uldum was all right, but Deepholme was pretty boring though.

    But then I like questing and get bored really fast with running the same dungeons over and over again.. Haven't gotten around to real raiding since TBC (and only Karazhan there... and one ill-fated attempt on Gruul).

    - - - Updated - - -

    I really really enjoyed Cata questing actually...

    Gilneas and the Goblin starting experience were both awesome and the whole new Undead story (from Tirisfal to Silverpine to Hillsbrad and then the Plaguelands) were to me some of the awesomest quests in the game.
    I also really liked some of the stuff in Vashj'ir and Twilight Highlands. I thought Uldum was all right, but Deepholme was pretty boring though.

    But then I like questing and get bored really fast with running the same dungeons over and over again.. Haven't gotten around to real raiding since TBC (and only Karazhan there... and one ill-fated attempt on Gruul).


    I also agree with Number Eighteen above me... I think one real weakness of Blizzard's storytelling is that the 'Dragonball Z effect' is really starting to show. They have to one-up themselves with every new story and it's leading to some pretty unbelievable and frankly rather lame stuff.
    Oh and I played Dragon Soul a handful of times on LFR and it was sorta cool the first time but after that it was a real snoozefest :P (I think I literally fell asleep once.. but I get that with raiding anyway xD)

  17. #237
    Stood in the Fire
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    I have loved all the expansions (including Cataclysm) and I definitely think that the hate on Cataclysm is waayyyy overblown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kritisch View Post
    You crazy? wraith was the best expansion with tbc. I wonder did you even play wraith at his time, we played icc for a year (with 3-4 chars a week a 2 resets (10/25)) and still had higher subs than in cata and mop together. Not to forget 4 raidtiers plus an Extra Boss halion. Thats content you never saw in an expansion.
    Actually, subscriptions reached their peak just after Cataclysm launched.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Khiyone View Post
    I have loved all the expansions (including Cataclysm) and I definitely think that the hate on Cataclysm is waayyyy overblown.




    Actually, subscriptions reached their peak just after Cataclysm launched.
    IMO it was mostly just DS that sucked. Firelands was short and that hurt it too, but at least IMO it was still an interesting raid. DS...Deathwing in particular was a huge letdown.

  19. #239
    2 words: soul and dragon (not necessarily in that order)
    Prey on the weak and you will survive, prey on the strong and you will live.

  20. #240
    Banned Taftvalue's Avatar
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    cataclysm was the expansion where the game started to decline, I'll leave it to you to figure out why

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