1. #1
    The Patient Halefire94's Avatar
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    Battleground Training/ Battleground School

    Hey everyone,
    I thought of this while we were getting killed in Arathi Basin the other night, and thought maybe it would be a good idea to post here. On the Alliance side we have this terrible tendency of not knowing what the hell to do in Battlegrounds. Not exactly the mechanics, but the strategy (some do not even know the mechanics, which worries me, but that is for another topic).

    For Example, in Arathi Basin no one understood the concept of killing the healer or defending. I purpose this: before you can enter into a battleground, you must do its "Battleground School". This would be a scenario, where you would be taught the basics of the Battleground.

    I will use Arathi Basin as an example:
    You would spawn with NPC Allies and Enemies. You will have certain objectives to do while the NPCs fight (like a mock battle). The first one could be "Capture Stables." Then after you cap it, you must defend the point with a few other NPCs allies. Hopefully, this would teach the concept of defense.

    After a certain amount of time, another objective would need to be completed. This one could teach what to do when a team zergs a flag. It would say that the flag has been completely overrun by the enemy, and to go capture another node that they left undefended by the zerg. (I know that this is not the only strategy, but its a basic and in my opinion better one than trying to fight for the same node that the whole enemy team is on.)

    Finally it could teach the concept of a 3-2 win. That is the most basic and common type of victory in AB. It could teach how defenders must be split up, etc.

    NOW, I know it seems like ALOT of hand-holding (and it is, I won't lie) but honestly its better to have a competent team who at least understand SOME of the concepts. I also realize that some people will ignore the tips given in the scenario and just keep being a non-contributing team member. But I feel that this could at least be a start in the right direction for Battlegrounds and their balance. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    First get rid of the bots, then we can talk.

  3. #3
    The Patient Halefire94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    First get rid of the bots, then we can talk.
    The Bots would simply be a teaching tool. If they were real people then it would basically just be another Battleground, but guided. I guess having other players to fight would work, but the queue time to find a whole match might be terrible as well.

  4. #4
    Not for nothing, but who are you to tell other people how they should play a battleground. Sure, there are objectives, and yes, winning usually requires succeeding in those objectives, but for you or anyone else to tell someone that they have to play the objectives rather than fighting on the roads because they have fun doing it is quite arrogant of you.

    And honestly, do you really think "battleground school" is going to prevent someone from fighting on the roads? Come on. Show of hands - How many people who have ever attended traffic school after getting a speeding ticket has NEVER exceeded the speed limit ever again afterwards?

    Exactly. And that's the same reason why your idea is a waste of resources.

    If people really wanted to learn how to play the battleground, they'd read the in-game information that's already there or ask about it inside the BG in the 2 minutes before it starts. At the very least, they'd follow the group and figure out what the objectives were as the game went on.

    The people you're trying to educate are the people who don't give a rat's ass, and no amount of battleground school is going to change that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halefire94 View Post
    The Bots would simply be a teaching tool. If they were real people then it would basically just be another Battleground, but guided. I guess having other players to fight would work, but the queue time to find a whole match might be terrible as well.
    Reading comprehension.

    He's not talking about the bots in your school. He's talking about the BOTS IN BATTLEGROUNDS. He's saying "BOTS are a bigger problem in BG's right now than idiots. First get rid of the bots, then we can get rid of the idiots."

  5. #5
    I'm going to agree with Mortal Strike here.

    You can't really teach strategy. Even if there was a battleground school that taught people certain strategies, the opposing faction could just come up with their own strategies (not from BG school) to counter the strategies learned in school. I also feel that it would require too many resources to implement.

    On the other hand, an easy to implement idea would be to put a sign in the prep zone of each battleground. Call it War Notes or something along those lines. Click to read and it has a very brief summary of the battleground objectives, and then a few tips that will help you succeed ("Don't fight on roads! Winning a fight on the road does nothing to contribute to your victory." "Try using crowd control effects on enemies attacking your flag carrier to reduce incoming damage!")

  6. #6
    High Overlord aceventura's Avatar
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    another option is impliment commander system- like in bf4, where one player can give orders to certain players- like go cap this flag, you are flag carrier healer etc, and people who fulfill these orders gain extra rewards. ofc you can do it already via chat, but it whould make obvious for unexpierenced player if that whould be built in ui, like arrow towards flag to cap or base to attack/defend.

  7. #7
    I am guilty of it, but when you are fully geared or playing with friends, you are likely to be the one farming gys, fighting in roads, etc... People that really only get upset in bgs are the ones that are doing them to get honor pts for gear/achieves. I'm currently gearing an alt and it's frustrating when people just dick around, yet I do the same thing on a geared player. Until they do something to reward players for achieving objectives (which is objective in some cases) or separate players that are fully geared from say those in crafted/greens, ones that are actually trying to win in order to gear, a battleground school really isn't going to do anything at all.

  8. #8
    Use the BG Minimap.
    get BGDefender, Battleground Targets, Healers have to Die.
    never follow an running Enemy when you defending a Flag and call early for reinforcements; theres always someone better then you.

    Class dismissed !

  9. #9
    1. WoW Pvp = gear > class > RNG > skill

    2. No amount of tactics and skill will help you vs. someone who outgears you and outclasses you.

    3. Zerg is the most successful tactics in WoW, killing everything what moves, means no defenders, no healers, no flag carriers, no cappers, no bombers.

    4. People play Pvp to "pwn" other players and get rewarded for it. They put prioritize rewards and "fun" over tactics and proper gameplay. You are rewarded the most honor for zerging.

    5. Your opponents being a premade, bunch of bots or your teamates not speaking/understanding English (mostly EU realms) will make your tactics a joke.

    6. Several battlegrounds favor one side.

    Summary: There is not need for such feature in WoW, Ghostcrawler took care of it, when he destroyed any small fractions of balance in the classes and made healers one of the most deciding factors in any battleground. All in all, overgear content, get some healers and you dont need any tactics. Wellcome to the world of competetive pvp in WoW.
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  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Pertaining to the core of the problem here: I feel like the people that take battlegrounds seriously have a tendency to just assume the rest of their team is retarded when that's not necessarily the case. I fight on roads all the time. I'm not a bot. I'm not a bad. I just couldn't care less whether I win the battleground. You're welcome to sit at a flag and do nothing for 15 minutes if you want (and I do my own share of that too), but sometimes I just want to fight and if the roads are where people have congregated I have no control over that.

    I like the idea, but I think you're overestimating the need for it. I really doubt people are ignorant of the objectives; they just don't care about them. To me it would make more sense to reward honour based on objectives in some way. With such a system you could presumably earn a lot of honour for trying even if you lose miserably, and people fighting midmap wouldn't affect you so much.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    Pertaining to the core of the problem here: I feel like the people that take battlegrounds seriously have a tendency to just assume the rest of their team is retarded when that's not necessarily the case. I fight on roads all the time. I'm not a bot. I'm not a bad. I just couldn't care less whether I win the battleground. You're welcome to sit at a flag and do nothing for 15 minutes if you want (and I do my own share of that too), but sometimes I just want to fight and if the roads are where people have congregated I have no control over that.

    I like the idea, but I think you're overestimating the need for it. I really doubt people are ignorant of the objectives; they just don't care about them. To me it would make more sense to reward honour based on objectives in some way. With such a system you could presumably earn a lot of honour for trying even if you lose miserably, and people fighting midmap wouldn't affect you so much.
    Agreed with this 100%. For a lot of people you may only have time for like 1-2 BGs a week. Who wants to spend that hour just guarding a flag? When I PVP in randoms, I don't even care about points or gear, just want to have fun. One day they will learn to put in a Team Deathmatch map.
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  12. #12
    i don't mind this idea to be honest. i remember in my first BG, i had no idea what the fuck was going on. hell, i'd even settle for a battleground guide similar to the dungeon guide they implemented, just so at least everybody knows how to score points in each BG

  13. #13
    They should have implemented some sort of PvP proving grounds long time ago... just like in League of Legends, you'd have to complete several scenarios that can occur in various BGs - to both explain how to play certain BG and to suggest some basic strategy. After that, you'd be able to queue for actual BG.

    I personally would welcome this as I rather play for the objective. I'm the guy who sits at the farm for the whole round while others "pwn" each other at the crossroads between mines and stables, goes carry a power orb as soon as it spawns, even at the cost of not getting one more killing blow from the pool, goes for a newly spawned cart without finishing that immortal disc priest or bubbled holy pally at the end of railroad, etc. etc.

    I didnt mean to brag, what I wanted to say is that I get really nervous when I enter a BG and have no idea what to do. I'm sure there are people who would welcome this too.

    It would not be supposed to eliminate those who don't play for the objective/bots/wannabe-trolls... just like it doesn't eliminate them in LoL. But it would learn players - who want to play - how to play the game, be it basic map rules or some sort of advanced tips.

    At this moment, you have to look it up yourself, and even after that, it's just not the same as when you go and try it. And don't even start with asking another player, you will just get flipped off in a possibly most rude way.

    inb4 muh resources

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroedinger View Post
    1. WoW Pvp = gear > class > RNG > skill

    2. No amount of tactics and skill will help you vs. someone who outgears you and outclasses you.

    3. Zerg is the most successful tactics in WoW, killing everything what moves, means no defenders, no healers, no flag carriers, no cappers, no bombers.

    4. People play Pvp to "pwn" other players and get rewarded for it. They put prioritize rewards and "fun" over tactics and proper gameplay. You are rewarded the most honor for zerging.

    5. Your opponents being a premade, bunch of bots or your teamates not speaking/understanding English (mostly EU realms) will make your tactics a joke.

    6. Several battlegrounds favor one side.

    Summary: There is not need for such feature in WoW, Ghostcrawler took care of it, when he destroyed any small fractions of balance in the classes and made healers one of the most deciding factors in any battleground. All in all, overgear content, get some healers and you dont need any tactics. Wellcome to the world of competetive pvp in WoW.
    Damn you are really posessed by ghostcrawler. It's a game, not your life.

    TBH i don't think BG school would be good. Most people know tactics, they just don't care about it. They want fun, killing players etc is much more fun than defending a base aka sitting there for 10min doing nothing.

  15. #15
    Completely pointless imo.
    1.Too many bots.
    2. Too many people not interested in trying to win and incapable of playing as part of a team.

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