Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #121
    Too many variables to say. If you're on H Thok, yeah, healers have to be spot on but generally speaking, healers need only heal as much as the damage that's being taken which, at least partially, is on everyone doing the right thing.

    I play shadow priest and the "worse" I play, the better DPS I do. Ever done a flex in your heroic geared guild who go in there with their mains? You'll most likely see the sloppiest play ever. We'll stand in crap since it's trivial, we'll take risks, we'll do crazy stuff since we know we won't get 1 shot and if we don't get 1 shot, our healers, being overgeared themselves for the content will keep you up.

    So many examples of what I can do to boost DPS but put that on healers. Keep in mind moving for Shadow Priests is bad (our DPS drops by a lot while moving so we try to limit it).

    Protectors: Say I decide to be slow on moving out of the group when I'm being mind seared because I have trinket going or even want to just finish my cast so I lose the least amount possible? Good for DPS, bad for healing.

    Heroic Sha of Pride: Say I don't run off to get a far away fissure in the ground and wait for one to be closer so I don't lose DPS (meaning we have more of the little pools appearing under us doing damage)? Say I AOE all the adds that pop instead of letting melee/tanks just naturally cleave them? AOE on adds will increase my dps but since melee can cleave them naturally, I do more to benefit the fight if I stick on the boss.

    Galakras: Meh, I'm doing huge damage so why not stand in that fire arrow a little, 2-3 ticks the healers can handle it...but my DPS is higher!

    Heroic Iron Juggernaut: Meh, moving sucks and those saw blades are hard to dodge sometimes...I know I can take the hit and live, I'll just not move.

    The examples are endless not to mention use of defensive cooldowns (and yes, I do mass dispel on Thok, why not help right?!). Healers need only heal what damage is being taken...no more, no less. I've seen some bad healers that can't handle it, I have but generally speaking, in a stable raid group with relatively equally skilled people, the wipes almost all come from personal mistakes of not handling a mechanic correctly or not avoiding damage.

  2. #122
    All roles are equally important and depending on the fight, one role can be a little more important than another. One of the most useful and more important mods in the game is recount/skada, not for the dps or healing meter, but for the damage taken and damage taken from "source". This can be a quick way of knowing why people are dying and will tell you right away if its the healers fault or not. If damage taken on the raid does become a true issue you have logs to dig through to correct the problem.

  3. #123
    RDD > anyone else.
    Blizzard balance.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2013-11-29 at 10:09 PM.

  4. #124
    I think in general people give Thok way more credit than he deserves. He's not that hard, even for a healer.
    Yeah, Thok isn't hard for healers. Obviously if your healer are bad you won't kill him in the same way you won't kill norushen if your dps are bad (and norushen isn't hard either for dps)

  5. #125
    If they are 13/14h their dpsn aren't bad..... stop judging everything off numbers of WoL, dealing with boss mechanics and making boss dead > ranking on WoL. ranking is something you care about when everything is on farm not during progression.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Willas View Post
    Like what? Staying alive, that's really tough. Don't stand in bad shit.
    -Killing the right targets and the right time.

    -Ignore the right targets.

    -Interupting

    Dps do just as much as healers and tanks...tanks used to do more then dps and healers in TBC. But that was aaages ago, not it's all the same.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Csnyder View Post
    tanks then healers then good dps, not numbers wise but dps who are alive at the end of the fight, yes dps can be carried but so can healers
    dps numbers dont matter as much anymore, the raids have been so mechanical heavy lately its aobut staying alive and doing more damage by the end of the fight
    Please. I fall asleep tanking, even heroic bosses. It's just fun if anything.

  8. #128
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Forsaken Lands of Sweden
    Posts
    4,813
    Having played a Holy Paladin since Vanilla, I can only say that good healers will not save a raid unless it's the right situation. Back in WotLK I and two other healers, a single dps, and our tank managed to defeat Kel'thuzad in 10 man in the final phase by simply outhealing the mobs and making sure that the tank and dps kept attacking the boss. The others had died because of those ice prisons that hit them and we were simply unable to save them since that spell insantly killed you if you got caught. Still, even if us healers saved the day, we still wouldn't have done it without the other survivors.

    More often than not, being a good healer will not make sure you succeed in a regular raid. If the dps and tank/tanks die, it's pretty much over. Frankly, I have seen more incompetence from dpsers to minimize damage input than healers failing to bombard them with heals, even though that happens as well. I can tell you that playing Holy Paladin back in WotLK was a giant spam fest of single target heals since we didn't have any actual AoE heals. So you can be rest assured that if you died while I was on duty, it had more to do with having to heal several people in matter of milliseconds by having to play whack-a-raider with the health bars. If you make life easier for us healers, we will just be happy. =P
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-11-30 at 01:48 AM.

  9. #129
    I've cleared all heroic end game content while current since the concept was introduced in Wotlk, as DPS, tank and healer - and I can say that healing is without a doubt the most difficult role during progression when gear is sub optimal and enrage timers aren't tuned super tightly. If they are, it's even harder as fights can last longer and mana becomes more of an issue.

    Currently playing Resto Druid 11/14 hc SoO. I'm constantly watching the health of 10-25 players spike up and down and have to react in fractions of seconds to players that fail on mechanics. All the while keeping hots rolling on targets taking unavoidable damage. Keeping things like harmony up whilst keeping an eye on mana, rotating cooldowns with tank cooldowns etc. all at the same time as positioning myself so I'm in range of everyone and not failing to mechanics myself.

    You'll find that most good healers are just that because they've been doing it for years or have some experience with high end PvP and aren't tunnel visioned like most dps.

    Tanks are probably the seconds hardest role to play but apart from positioning, rotating cooldowns and taunting off of each other on bosses that apply stacking debuffs to tanks; they pretty much just have to soak and manipulate vengeance. Threat is just trivial now and there aren't many fights that require a tank to worry about his/her threat atm.

    Dps have it easy, especially ranged. They just have to know their rotation and positioning on a fight, as well as when to use personal defensive cooldowns. Provided they pull the numbers to meet enrage timers and avoid the shit they're supposed to avoid there's not much dps can do determine the outcome of most bosses. There are exceptions, with the more skilled players knowing when to do things like BoP on healers so they can free cast without interruption on Thok etc, but those are things that can be macro'd and have to be done maybe once or twice during an encounter.

    It does however make life 10000 times easier for healers when dps don't stand in shit or go out of range or LoS but it's not often you see many dps who care about those sort of things as long as someone can keep them alive so they can top meters.

    If you'd played from a healer's PoV you'd be amazed how many DPS die before using their defensive cds because they don't think it's their job to watch their own health. Mages dying without iceblock, rogues aggroing and using evasion or cloak instead of vanish so they can keep dpsing but not actually lowering their threat, warlocks life tapping on 5-10% (they do it)... All of the most retarded shit you can think of - I've had to compensate for it as a healer in the past 10 years at some point.
    Last edited by Jeffseid; 2013-11-30 at 02:32 AM.

  10. #130
    If you're cutting edge progress, which (no offense of course) you're not, dps is much more important than healing, as you will be so undergeared that you need every little bit.

    If you're in a semi-casual progressing guild such as yours, then yes, healers will need to carry the majority of the raid which will be standing in fire a lot.
    3DS (Pokemon X) friendcode: 1263-6368-9207. PM me!

  11. #131
    If healers are the key to progression, ask yourself why most progression guilds choose to gear their DPS, then Tanks, only after that Healers. Or why guilds that haven't killed H-Garrosh now find some bosses much easier than they seem on first week videos.

    @Jeffseid: personally, I think you are exaggerating healing difficulty. I have cleared all contents up to 13/14H (except some 10M as I've always been 25 on main), probably getting Garrosh soon within 2 weeks. Had been healing since Vanilla until H LK (played both DPS and healing role since Sunwell, but made the switch to permanent Shadow after LK), and it has never seemed as difficult as you said. For any "difficult" aspect of healing you mentioned, there is a similar (if not slightly harder) aspect of DPS, especially now with the way Blizzard designed contents without annoying unpredictable mortal damage.

  12. #132
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,243
    In shitty/low-end (LFR/Flex) content, a single good DPS can probably alter the outcome far, far more than a single good tank or especially healer.

    In high-end (Heroic) content, obviously no single player can really alter the outcome since all players become important, but DPS is still definitely not the easiest role to "excel" at, if anything the hardest.

  13. #133
    reminds me of a old rogue guildie....

    i asked him how he could die to a aoe attack i myself always survive.

    he never knew feint reduced aoe dmg taken-.-

    and yes. healers are important same as tanks.
    but dps need to get off there high horse and stop the damm dps if there going to die....

    had a dunguon group some time ago.
    same person never moved from any fire / puddle or aoe.
    i spend over 80% of my mana healing his sorry ass.......

    then when the boss dies he shows everyone he was top dps. by a wooking 5% or so-.-
    next boss battle i spend about 10% of my mana on him his dps was about 95% lower then the next guyxD
    http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4...4841599821.jpg the boy that will forever be named the HHD wiper. R.I.P

  14. #134
    I've never healed before, but it just seems like healing is brutal compared to DPS/tanking. All those times when people's health just drops and you're scrambling to get them back up. I mean as a DPS if you're a step slower on your rotation your DPS drops a bit but you can still kill things. As a healer if you're off by a little bit people start to die and all the blame is on you.

  15. #135
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,243
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    I've never healed before, but it just seems like healing is brutal compared to DPS/tanking. All those times when people's health just drops and you're scrambling to get them back up. I mean as a DPS if you're a step slower on your rotation your DPS drops a bit but you can still kill things. As a healer if you're off by a little bit people start to die and all the blame is on you.
    If health bars are actually dropping like fucking crazy in a raid situation 99.99% it's because the DPS/tanks fucked up in the first place or cooldowns (including healer ones) were improperly managed.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    I've never healed before, but it just seems like healing is brutal compared to DPS/tanking. All those times when people's health just drops and you're scrambling to get them back up. I mean as a DPS if you're a step slower on your rotation your DPS drops a bit but you can still kill things. As a healer if you're off by a little bit people start to die and all the blame is on you.
    It gets a lot easier with experience, to the point where people's health dropping to around 10 - 20% doesn't feel like an "OH SHIT WTF DO I DO" moment because you know how to deal with it. It gets even easier to deal with if you can predict that damage ahead of time.

    Also in serious raiding, the healers usually don't get blamed for dps killing themselves.

  17. #137
    Everything we've said is being repeated, so it's worth repeating again: preparation is the #1 most important thing.

    How do you think the x2 day a week raid teams out there clear heroic content while it's current? It's not by having amazing raiders.... I ran one of those teams for several years and it was -all- preparation. You can do great things with a mix of decent/good raiders if people are actually prepared and there's a fantastic plan/strategy.

    I've always wondered if EU does better than us(US) due to that higher average level of education, leading to people treating the game with more study too.

  18. #138
    @Justusy I think EU progress better because US does not give a f. Aka more casuals.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    @Justusy I think EU progress better because US does not give a f. Aka more casuals.
    What exactly do "casuals" have to do with "better progress"? Are we looking at the top tier guilds, or are we talking about casuals?

    EU guilds definitely have a stronger representation at the very top, but let's not pretend there aren't US guilds in the Top 20. In fact, 3 of the top 5 25m guilds were US guilds in T15!
    Guild - Twitter - US#15 (25 man)

  20. #140
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    behind cover
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Willas View Post
    Like what? Staying alive, that's really tough. Don't stand in bad shit.
    Like killing adds, not padding meters by just cleaving mindlessly, doing assigned tasks, so much more to being a good dps than just numbers and staying alive.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •