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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Thok 10 man troubles

    Hi guys,

    The guild i'm in is having trouble getting past Thok... I can understand basic Logs, but i'm looking for someone more experienced to look at them and hopefully point out potential problems. They are 2 tanking and 3 healing it for now. I will post a few logs as they don't roll with consistent teams. Be as critical as you need to be and any advice will be welcome

    best wipes http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9389&e=9860
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=204&e=507
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2642&e=3063

    Is it gear, dps, healing or basic fight execution, enjoy.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  2. #2
    -Your dps Is really low
    -Solo tanking Helps in my opinion

    I really think the main issue here is the DPS your fight is probably lasting long into the fire phase wich is just hard Most def for YOUR healers.

  3. #3
    On you're best wipe you had 2 people die a little early on. Septimus needs to not die to chomp. He died twice to that on the attempt, and a few other players died early to chomp which probably would account for the ~60mil hp that the boss still had.

    The dps is very low for the ilvl, but OK-ish for ~550 avg on most players that don't min max or care much for higher end dps, not assuming you're players are like that of course. They could be doing more but most of the classes I do not actually play. It looks like you had the melee hitting the jailer, but so was the shadowpriest. Was he just multi-dotting or full time on the jailer? Showing damage taken it looks like he was on the jailer and did a decent amount of damage to him. Try having him stay focused on the boss during that phase and just throwing dots on the jailer, no mind flay's or blasts, etc. You're range should try and maximize their damage on the boss during blood phases.

    Healing wise, all are relatively low. Zaratsa, the shaman, made very little use of chain heal during phase 1 and probably should have. Using chain heals on targets with riptide is essential and using healing stream totem is a must; which he did manage to use. The druid was low probably due to double deaths to chomp through the fight but imo should be new the top with the shaman, instead the priest is leading heals. I'm not so knowledgable on druid healers since the patch, but it looks like he could put more heals into swiftmend. His harmony was up only 50% of the time, that should be near 100% if I'm correct. Druids confirm.

  4. #4
    Not sure how solo tanking helps to be honest unless your ranged dps is incredible and you can push fixate phases beyond 12 stacks.

    Have your healers sync there cooldowns together. If you can bring the hpala for this fight it makes it a lot easier to push Phase 1 longer. We bloodlust on pull and try to push Thok to anywhere between 60-70% in P1 before transitioning into fixate phase. We do this with a Hpala/Rshaman/Rdruid or another Rshaman (similar to some of your wipes).

    At 6th stack we have Hpala dev aura for immunity to interrupts. After this he'll Hand of Protection the rdruid who can then freecast tranquility and other heals, and after that we'll have the shamans drop healing tide totems and ascendance. This helps prolong Phase 1 for as long as possible, while of course warriors can help with banners and dps using there own defensives after 10 + stacks Remember to use your healthstones!

    In terms of dps, make sure they get used to 'timing' there casts to maximise dps. If it means waiting 0.5 secs before they cast so be it, it's better than being constantly interrupted.

    If your healers struggle with dispelling dots after opening green, have the warlock use his imp for 'singe magic' and also if your bringing the spriest have him use mass dispel when needed

    As a Brewmaster tank i take Chi Burst for this fight and with the high vengeance I can insta heal whole raid up to full hp after a roar, which also helps the healers ^^

    We open Green > Blue > Red as well. We use 2 tanks because on blue we have to taunt swap at least 3-4 times (we taunt @ exactly 4 stacks) due to having raid cooldowns back by this point, and it's not a damaging phase compared to acid/red so we're able to push it to the max. Usually after blue phase Thok will be @ 20% hp or so for us and will be pretty much dead going into red phase

    IF you make it to red phase and Thok still has a high amount of hp, have your tank backpeddle 'kite' thok around the room with the rest of raid moving alongside his front foot, this ensures you can still benefit from aoe healing and avoid the fires. Once he is at 10% push him into fixate phase where you have your tank pick up the add and just have everybody nuke Thok.

    I don't think your dps is that low, I'd recommend 2 tanking it. Swapping @ 3 stacks. Make sure your warrior tank/brewmaster tank drops banner/avert harm after Hand of Protection to give reduced raid damage, and as i said. If you have the monk tank Thok on pull, by the time he switches he'll have super high vengeance for Xuen DPS + Chi Burst talented can time it between interupts to help healers to push that extra stack

    Also there's no point in your monk having diffuse magic as Thoks' shouts are physical damage I think..? + Dampen Harm gives 3x attacks reduced in half which is way better imo

    Here's logs for healing done on our guilds Thok encounter http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...=12199&e=12626

    As you can see with vengeance + monks heals I was doing 60k HPS, and i know some ppl can pull more as tanks! We play the fixate phase safe and open the prison up @ 9th stack as it's going into 10th. Otherwise he becomes Usain Bolt and can just be annoying if people die to him here.

    Not sure if you knew but fixate targets can be controlled (ever got that annoying double fixate?!). Have the person currently being fixated run into safe range, but make sure just before fixate ends he runs back towards thok (not close enough to be eaten!) this will avoid him getting double fixated as long as your ranged dps are within 20-40 yards of him.
    Last edited by Moofarah; 2013-11-28 at 03:21 PM.

  5. #5
    Your best try has 5 people dying from chomp before you wipe? Gosh I wonder what the problem is. Your dps is also quite low for the 550ilvl gear they have.

  6. #6
    We had issues with this fight till we dropped to 1 tanking. The extra dps helps without the need to extend either phase.

    Pop Hero, burn Thok up till about the 10th roar. If you can get around 65% - 73ish% before the first transition you're ok. Unless you stack classes that can drop threat like rogues and hunters for kiting it's best to never go over 10 stacks during fixate.

    The most dangerous part of 1 tanking is the Blue phase if your tank gets frozen. Be aware of Thok's health and your dps, you may not need to have your tank get 5 stacks before transitioning. But if you do make sure to have CDs ready for the tank and ranged ready to break the tank out asap.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Moofarah View Post
    Not sure how solo tanking helps to be honest unless your ranged dps is incredible and you can push fixate phases beyond 12 stacks.
    It gives one tank insane vengeance to do huge dps and Goldlike self heals. This allows you to make the second tank either another healer or another dps.

  8. #8
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    Ty for the replies guys they are very much welcomed, i've passed on the link to the thread so any information or advice is very much appreciated
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  9. #9
    Your raid only took 6 stacks which is very low.You should try to push for way more stacks since your healers barely have to do any healing whatsoever at the moment. Just make 2 groups and one guy stand completely outside so you don't push stacks too early. Your disc priest took cascade for some odd reason for the fight and should definetely actually take divine star since you are going to be in groups for the defeaning screech phases anyway.

    With that you might be able to make sure you won't need to stay in red phase for too long, which will really hurt. Just stack stacked up tightly and make sure it gets pushed rather early so the fire and scream combo doesn't kill you quickly.Try to make sure you play it safe enough with the kiting in p2. You shouldn't try to push it too hard and get unncesarily deaths to chomps.

    As a final note I think it's good idea of having your dps get potions and using one before pull about 3 sec before (also called pre-pot) and using second one later on when cooldowns line up. It doesn't take much gold to buy them depending on server and it will increase raid dps slightly at least.

  10. #10
    For your Shadow Priest he needs to watch his dots. His Vampiric Touch lasts 3:55 min this fight while his Shadow Word: Pain lasts 5:29.
    They should be both in higher uptimes but even if he had to run a lot and got some troubles he should have both close to each other.

    He plays Divine Insight which gives you more Mind Blast usage. He used Mind Blast less than he could use it without Divine Insight.
    I would recommend him something like weak auras or tell me when and make a huge Eye looking at you yelling everytime its cooldown is ready. That's the way i do it.

    He seams to have some trouble with casting mindflay while p1. He can definitly use From Darkness Comes Light, which gives him instant Mindspikes and favours p1 if you aren't used to it.

  11. #11
    Mechanics. Don't die to Chomp and you win. I mean, it sounds harsh, but telling your raiders to focus on the minutia of their classes and try and min-max DPS when they can't do the fight mechanics properly isn't going to help you win.

    In fact, it may distract your raiders and cause them to perform worse.

    Fight mechanics.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Mechanics. Don't die to Chomp and you win. I mean, it sounds harsh, but telling your raiders to focus on the minutia of their classes and try and min-max DPS when they can't do the fight mechanics properly isn't going to help you win.

    In fact, it may distract your raiders and cause them to perform worse.

    Fight mechanics.
    Totally agree and this is something they will be working on. Thanks Muko for that helpful spriest info I will surely pass that on to her. If anyone has anymore insight into healing for this fight with the healer classes we used it would be appreciated.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Veng101 View Post
    Totally agree and this is something they will be working on. Thanks Muko for that helpful spriest info I will surely pass that on to her. If anyone has anymore insight into healing for this fight with the healer classes we used it would be appreciated.
    I'll say it again "bloodlust on pull and try to push Thok to anywhere between 60-70% in P1 before transitioning into fixate phase. We do this with a Hpala/Rshaman/Rdruid or another Rshaman (similar to some of your wipes).

    At 6th stack we have Hpala dev aura for immunity to interrupts. After this he'll Hand of Protection the rdruid who can then freecast tranquility and other heals, and after that we'll have the shamans drop healing tide totems and ascendance. This helps prolong Phase 1 for as long as possible, while of course warriors can help with banners and dps using there own defensives after 10 + stacks Remember to use your healthstones! "

  14. #14
    Both of your priests should take divine star, its big healing with no target cap. I didn't see a barrier from the disc priest in the attempt linked either. It also probably wouldn't kill your SP to use Prayer of mending on CD so it can ping around and help with healing.

    I don't know much about resto dru's but heres our ones healing for our last kill (shes much better geared) http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-d9...?s=2212&e=2459 She uses rejuv and wild growth a lot more than your dru.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moofarah View Post
    I'll say it again "bloodlust on pull and try to push Thok to anywhere between 60-70% in P1 before transitioning into fixate phase. We do this with a Hpala/Rshaman/Rdruid or another Rshaman (similar to some of your wipes).

    At 6th stack we have Hpala dev aura for immunity to interrupts. After this he'll Hand of Protection the rdruid who can then freecast tranquility and other heals, and after that we'll have the shamans drop healing tide totems and ascendance. This helps prolong Phase 1 for as long as possible, while of course warriors can help with banners and dps using there own defensives after 10 + stacks Remember to use your healthstones! "
    Don't worry your help will definitely be taken on board, like I said in my OP the teams are not consistent so there might not always be a Holy Paladin in the healer team. Just trying to cover all bases regardless of the healing set-up. I myself have killed Thok without a paladin in the group, but due to my limited knowledge of WoL my help can only go so far.
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Veng101 View Post
    Don't worry your help will definitely be taken on board, like I said in my OP the teams are not consistent so there might not always be a Holy Paladin in the healer team. Just trying to cover all bases regardless of the healing set-up. I myself have killed Thok without a paladin in the group, but due to my limited knowledge of WoL my help can only go so far.
    Ahh sucks when you don't know who's turning up each week. Running my guild have only just recently started to get consistent members! :P But the same principal applies no matter what healing teams you have, a priest/paladin both have immunity to silences which is massive on this fight. As long as your healers aren't all using their cooldowns at the same time you should be able to push it to 12 stacks at least which will help

  17. #17
    First thing that comes to mind: Your hunter is really low. This is THE hunter fight, he really should be doing more dmg.
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  18. #18
    I also recommend you to go with 1 tank and 3 healers, first day we used that setup it died. We had 3 melee, 3 ranged, 3 healers (2 shamans and 1 disc priest) and me as a blood dk. This way you basically win 2 dps since your tank will be doing a lot of damage from vengance (on our first kill I was second in damage only behind a hunter who are godly in this fight).

    In the run phases we have marks near the jail we will open where we all more or less stack (ranged may move a bit to hit the boss but not very far). The boss always runs between the end of the room and the corridor. Each time he marks someone he moves from where we all are and runs the other way. We always open the cage at around 10 stacks on boss, but if you have trouble healing the start of phases you can try to open when he's chasing a dps so all your healers are ready.

    Hope it helps.
    Last edited by OrCuS; 2013-11-29 at 10:52 AM.

  19. #19
    Are the Chomp deaths due to double (or triple) fixates? If so, you can avoid those by being rather close to the boss, some 20 yds, when he stops to pick a new target for fixate.

  20. #20
    High Overlord
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    Ty everyone for their input, we will be attempting Thok Sunday evening and will be using the advice given
    “I’m like King Midas in reverse. Everything I touch turns to shit.”

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