Shadow Priest PvP

[acediddler]

Okay, so I've been thinking of ways to make Shadow Priest viable in arena once more.
I didn't want to make any drastic changes to game play or give us major buffs because the game doesn't need classes that can solo other players in a global.
Alright so I've had many thoughts like bringing back voidshift, decreasing dispersion CD to 1 min, increasing DP damage in arena, making fantasm baseline with 15% damage reduction, bringing back old shadow form, etc etc.

No this thread doesn't have anything to do with how overpowered other classes are in comparison to Shadow Priest.

I hated the orb mechanic since day 1 and I miss wotlk/cata Spriest gameplay but I adapted and have played a very high ratings throughout MoP. The highest rating I've been on my Spriest this season is 2181 and to me that's very low compared to other seasons.

So I pondered and pondered about what would make us better overall without overhauling mechanics/increasing damage drastically/or decreasing defensives cds/adding more defensives. And then it came to me. If only our Psychic Horror ability did not require orbs. It would not only spare orbs to increase damage but also increase survivability, and can be used in offensive situations. And if shit hits the fan we always have our dispersion key which would be usefull now because we have another ability that can help use survive when its on CD.

I just want to know what everyone else thinks about this change and how it would affect PvP in general.

[Estivales]

I totally agree with you.
This orb mechanic is really annoying, especially to use psychic horror.

[Kretan]

Okay, so I've been thinking of ways to make Shadow Priest viable in arena once more.
I didn't want to make any drastic changes to game play or give us major buffs because the game doesn't need classes that can solo other players in a global.
Alright so I've had many thoughts like bringing back voidshift, decreasing dispersion CD to 1 min, increasing DP damage in arena, making fantasm baseline with 15% damage reduction, bringing back old shadow form, etc etc.

No this thread doesn't have anything to do with how overpowered other classes are in comparison to Shadow Priest.

I hated the orb mechanic since day 1 and I miss wotlk/cata Spriest gameplay but I adapted and have played a very high ratings throughout MoP. The highest rating I've been on my Spriest this season is 2181 and to me that's very low compared to other seasons.

So I pondered and pondered about what would make us better overall without overhauling mechanics/increasing damage drastically/or decreasing defensives cds/adding more defensives. And then it came to me. If only our Psychic Horror ability did not require orbs. It would not only spare orbs to increase damage but also increase survivability, and can be used in offensive situations. And if shit hits the fan we always have our dispersion key which would be usefull now because we have another ability that can help use survive when its on CD.

I just want to know what everyone else thinks about this change and how it would affect PvP in general.

I think that one of two things would have to happen. Either spriests have to be made to be a much poorer choice to train, or we need more tools while trained. I think that simply adding back old shadowform or increasing shadow's pvp healing would be enough alone. Although I wouldn't mind 1 min dispersion. Regardless, the orb req on horror needs to go.

[PPN]

Okay, so I've been thinking of ways to make Shadow Priest viable in arena once more.
I didn't want to make any drastic changes to game play or give us major buffs because the game doesn't need classes that can solo other players in a global.
Alright so I've had many thoughts like bringing back voidshift, decreasing dispersion CD to 1 min, increasing DP damage in arena, making fantasm baseline with 15% damage reduction, bringing back old shadow form, etc etc.

No this thread doesn't have anything to do with how overpowered other classes are in comparison to Shadow Priest.

I hated the orb mechanic since day 1 and I miss wotlk/cata Spriest gameplay but I adapted and have played a very high ratings throughout MoP. The highest rating I've been on my Spriest this season is 2181 and to me that's very low compared to other seasons.

So I pondered and pondered about what would make us better overall without overhauling mechanics/increasing damage drastically/or decreasing defensives cds/adding more defensives. And then it came to me. If only our Psychic Horror ability did not require orbs. It would not only spare orbs to increase damage but also increase survivability, and can be used in offensive situations. And if shit hits the fan we always have our dispersion key which would be usefull now because we have another ability that can help use survive when its on CD.

I just want to know what everyone else thinks about this change and how it would affect PvP in general.

I kow your thread is about what to change with SP. But id put your idea rather the other way. Id make other classes also the way that they need to decide if they want use their "potential" for offensive or defensie abilities.
I mean thats the nice thing about SP, you need to make situational decisions and not just what we see sadly a lot today--> Arena starts:

"popping burst and def cds at same time and lets see if things die, lol"

Sad thing, for some combos that just works out fine

[acediddler]

I kow your thread is about what to change with SP. But id put your idea rather the other way. Id make other classes also the way that they need to decide if they want use their "potential" for offensive or defensie abilities.
I mean thats the nice thing about SP, you need to make situational decisions and not just what we see sadly a lot today--> Arena starts:

"popping burst and def cds at same time and lets see if things die, lol"

Sad thing, for some combos that just works out fine

I agree with you, some classes need to be fixed/modified in arenas but what this thread was intended to do was to help spriest be viable in the current state of the game. This would definitely make us somewhat usable.

[BlissfulBlithe]

Both warrior and frost mage need to be balanced first, this seasons meta is based entirely around those two hard countering and being balanced against each other. Only then can we start looking at other classes.

A quote I like to use when discussing any PvP balance relating this expansion:

For the final point, I meant right now, not previous expansions. Warriors don't want nerfs because Mages will dominate, Mages don't want nerfs because Warriors will dominate. Players from both sets of classes seem to be forgetting that there is 9 other classes that are getting fucked by both of them.

By all means, the idea is good but for it to properly be noticeable in the meta game we have to shift it further from those two classes.

[Terahertz]

I wondered that as well, if only Psychic Horror didn't have a cost, would we actually be more viable again? Now only would it help spreists get more fears off, it could also help them get kills.

Though, the biggest "bottleneck" are warriors atm. It's literally impossible to get any pressure going if you get tunneled by a warrior. You know the drill, 2 reflects, 2 interrupts, too many stuns, too much insane damage forcing spriests to go defensive.

[Deleted]

I wondered that as well, if only Psychic Horror didn't have a cost, would we actually be more viable again? Now only would it help spreists get more fears off, it could also help them get kills.

It would be a massive buff

BUT

Using resource to decide if you are using it for utillity or dmg is something not a spriest should lose, but something other classes should get tweeked around.

[Alanar]

I wondered that as well, if only Psychic Horror didn't have a cost, would we actually be more viable again? Now only would it help spreists get more fears off, it could also help them get kills.

Though, the biggest "bottleneck" are warriors atm. It's literally impossible to get any pressure going if you get tunneled by a warrior. You know the drill, 2 reflects, 2 interrupts, too many stuns, too much insane damage forcing spriests to go defensive.

And which defensive's you speak off? Dispersion? renew/prayer? (they should be on you 100% of the time anyway)

[Sharde]

- horror no longer uses shadow orbs. 3 sec horror effect at all times. perhaps lower cd. i detest this connection. the main reason i don't play priest seriously.

- increase healing and duration of plague massively (including total dmg). change spike to an orb using spell (one orb per cast). make it instant and deal higher dmg. with talent it doesn't use orbs. this is the new burst spell.

- mind flay usable while moving? would at least make the glyph somewhat interesting.

- and a minor glyph changing the skin of the projections in shades. would increase pvp ability drastically for me ...

- this is completely personal but i don't like prayer and binding heal as shadow. remove them and buff the other heals:
1) for x seconds after using shield on yourself in shadow form you receive x% reduced physical damage
2) every time you are damaged by a physical dot or hit by a physical attack dealing more than x% of your max health your renew instantly heals you for 200% of one tick reducing duration by 2 ticks. cannot procc more than once every x seconds.
3) flash heal also usable in shadow form.

all of this would be overkill but at least the first point should be done for me to enjoy shadow ...

[Anium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGDcwOxBzY

[squid]

Yeah Horror needs to have no cost. I know we can't compare spells in a vacuum but look at the difference between warlocks and shadow priest cc. Warlocks have the AoE Fear, Deathcoil/bloodhorror equiv to psychic horror with no cost, plus castable fear, and pet's CC. What exactly does shadow priest have that evens out?

They need more defensives and Psychic Horror, I think orbs work fine but just for devouring plague.

[acediddler]

It would be a massive buff

BUT

Using resource to decide if you are using it for utillity or dmg is something not a spriest should lose, but something other classes should get tweeked around.

it would be a good buff on a 1 min CD but a massive buff on a 30 sec CD. It all depends.
In all honestly when was the last time you needed a full horror/disarm in pve instead of just using orbs for damage.
I think blizzard is just using it as an excuse to use orbs on more then 1 spell because the mechanic is overall bogus. My guess is they're going to keep it as is
but if they would consider something like this it would make us so much better overall.

[Tyrannica]

Regardless, the orb req on horror needs to go.

In this season i only hear bad things about spriests. CC or def cds shouldn't require orbs, did this change somewhere in mop? It does sound unbelievable bad. Only played shadows as twinks so far and it was several seasions before current one and used other classes for arena.

afaik, as far as arena balance goes, both shadow priests and rets need help, but no news in blue on that front so far, is holinka even aware of this?

[acediddler]

is holinka even aware of this?

I doubt it.

[kharyll]

I think blizzard is just using it as an excuse to use orbs on more then 1 spell because the mechanic is overall bogus.

Oh this is soooo true.
Priests need more cc if the other classes retain this many cc's and cc removing abilities. Especially warriors who can break fears on a short cooldown and remove roots easily and dish out an insane damage.

[acediddler]

Oh this is soooo true.
Priests need more cc if the other classes retain this many cc's and cc removing abilities. Especially warriors who can break fears on a short cooldown and remove roots easily and dish out an insane damage.

Very true, the fact of the matter is that we're totally outclassed by just about every other class.

[hawkus]

I think that shadow priests aren't in too bad shape this season, its just that warriors and shamans are really popular this season and happen to directly counter shadow priests. If a warrior sticks on a shadow priest, they have like 90% uptime and many ways to interrupt casts (pummel, interrupting shout, spell reflect, mass spell reflect, etc.). Warriors and shamans also have a second trinket against shadow priest's CCs, psychic scream (berserker rage and tremor).

Since they design PvP around 3v3, you have to factor in the synergy between classes. Ideally, shadow priests provide a lot of support for the team (off-heals, life-grip, feathers), and shouldn't have as much CC as a purely offensive class. Same deal with balance druids and ret pallies, but if I remember correctly, all three specs aren't so great this season.

I think a reasonable fix would be to reduce the cost of psychic horror to one and only one shadow orb, for the 8 second disarm and 3 second horror. This wouldn't force the shadow priest to sacrifice all of their burst in exchange for control, but it would cost some damage. Also, shadow priests only have one defensive cooldown because they are supposed to be overall very tanky (reduced damage, self PoMs and shields). Maybe adding another shadow orb consuming spell for purely defensive reasons?

Something like,
Shadow Word: Consume
X Shadow Orbs
Consumes all shadow orbs to heal for Y% and reduce all damage taken by Z% for 5 seconds.

Since more spells would be based on the shadow orbs, there should be more ways to get it. Maybe by adding a way to get shadow orbs after taking X amount of damage, or getting interrupted, shadow priests can be more active when trained.

[briggz]

I read OP and skimmed the rest cause I'm on my phone, so excuse me if I repeat something but here is my view on a fix for sp in the CURRENT season( assuming warrior are still op)

Remove orb requirement from horror but make CD 2 min. On top of that make 4 set bonuses baseline (vt dispell protection) and make it to pw:s when cast on self give freedom for 4 sec. This would hinder off heals cause if you cast it on a partner it goes on cd and you don't have access to freedom for yourself, but gives sp some mobility when being trained.

I dunno just my thoughts

[Deleted]

Remove orb requirement from horror but make CD 2 min. On top of that make 4 set bonuses baseline (vt dispell protection) and make it to pw:s when cast on self give freedom for 4 sec. This would hinder off heals cause if you cast it on a partner it goes on cd and you don't have access to freedom for yourself, but gives sp some mobility when being trained.

I dunno just my thoughts

Max 1½ min cd on horror.

Baseline dispell protection, yes!

Freedom & speedbubble sounds really awesome, like a substitute for a blink/teleport, but wayy too OP comboed with feathers.